To retouch or not to retouch??

Hello,

I have been thinking about this question for some time now:

Should I remove the wires from the first picture or should i put more emphasis on the mast which
does not belong into that landscape as on second picture?


As these landscapes are on my daily road to work, i did not realize the wires until i looked at the pictures
The whole series can been seen here







Nicolas.

Nicolas,

Unless you are trying to send some message about industrialization of the landscape or the path of modern man and the like, I'd either reshoot from a different position to exclude the wires and tower.

If there's something otherwise difficult to reproduce in the images, such as lighting then the wires and tower are removed in PS.

That's how I would approach it.

Asher

for once, on such a topic I agree with Asher! YEAH!!!
Maybe Asher wanted to make peace with me on the subject ;-) and confused between the Nicolas!

However, I do like the soft, tender and discrete introduction of modern life in the first shot, I would keep it like this.

Seems we've got same kind of weather here too Nicolas...

On reflection, by accident or by design, or accidental design or by accidental vision, the first image containing the very finest stands of man stretches over the misty landscape abd is moody and special.

That one, I'd leave as is and print it.

Asher

there is never accident in a good picture. Never.

Nicolas Claris said:

there is never accident in a good picture. Never.

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But sometimes, one can make a good picture of an accident (LOL).

I agree with you guys that I'd not change the first picture. It seems that there are some perched birds on the top strand, which makes it even more interesting. Honestly speaking, re. the second one, I don't think that I'd keep that one. Removing the tower in PS would be an hassle anyway.

Nicolas, can you shoot at a different time of the day to capture more of that misty feeling? I think you may have something going there .

Cheers,

Cem

The first image is nice but just doesn't have a very sharp feeling about it. Perhaps shooting the scene with a smaller apperture would have help.

To edit this image I'd do a few things I think. First I'd crop away much of the foreground grass - it's not an interesting foreground. I'd clone out the pylon tower in the background (above the tree on the left). Also there's something catching my eye on the right edge of the image just above the trees. Is it a part of a pylon? I'd clone that too. I'd also add a little more contrast and finally I'd sharpening the image.

Don't mean to be too critical but just my observations.

by the way I looked at the other images in the gallery and there's a few nicer looking ones there.

Regards
Jim

Jim Davies said:

...by the way I looked at the other images in the gallery and there's a few nicer looking ones there....

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Hi Jim,

Thanks for pointing this out, I must have somehow missed the reference to the gallery in the OP of Nicolas. And I agree with you that there are nicer looking images to be found there.

Cheers,

Cem

Thank you for all the comments.

This gives me actually more questions than answers.

May be i should have put more explanations on how this serie came to happen:

I was late on my way to work, when i saw this wonderful mixture with the light of the sun raising bringing out the full impact of the mist. As i had the equipment in the car (YES by accident ) i could not resist

As i did have not energy yet to fully work on these pictures, i did only a quick job of putting them online. I planed to have more time during the year end holidays to finalize these. This is why i appreciate all your comments.

Some pictures are technically not too good. I had no tridpod, was not really concentrated, first time using VR (nikkor 18-200), exited as i never saw this light/mist combination in the 8 years i drive that road.
I was almost 2 hours late @ work and since i took these pictures i either had a nice light OR nice mist, but not both of them

I will post my keeper when finished.

Yes i am happy with the pictures, yes i learned (the hard way) to always include the tripod on the road.



This was taken a month later at around the same hour. (click on image for the whole set)

Nicolas

nyschulte said:

Thank you for all the comments.

This gives me actually more questions than answers.

May be i should have put more explanations on how this serie came to happen:

I was late on my way to work, when i saw this wonderful mixture with the light of the sun raising bringing out the full impact of the mist. As i had the equipment in the car (YES by accident ) i could not resist

As i did have not energy yet to fully work on these pictures, i did only a quick job of putting them online. I planed to have more time during the year end holidays to finalize these. This is why i appreciate all your comments.

Click to expand...

The very first pictures is wonderful and can be added to your portfolio. You might do local sharpening of luminence only (12,20,1) might do with the unsharp mask in PS.

The picture has magic and I'd print it to about 14" high. Don't correct too much. You might even decrease the local sharpening by blending that back with the orignal by 10 to 50%.

Maybe experiment with different paper to get the right look. A matte paper with texture might be an idea. A simple flat paper like Epson Heavy Weight might work well.

Let's know what you do. Don't put this aside just because off your massive girl calendar shoot which I know can consume your passion and energy like a black hole destroys stars.

If this place is near you, return, return return. This is so important. You have to understand the place so your inner minds build a library of magic to guide you. Then you have a love affair with the scene.

Think of the Monet Haystacks!

nyschulte said:

]Some pictures are technically not too good. I had no tridpod, was not really concentrated, first time using VR (nikkor 18-200), exited as i never saw this light/mist combination in the 8 years i drive that road.
I was almost 2 hours late @ work and since i took these pictures i either had a nice light OR nice mist, but not both of them

My Dogma III Technical perfection can distract as well as help. Scout, look again and again, to inform your inner being, like a lion does in hunting its prey. Asher

By the way, the lion is there at 4 a.m. waiting for the light, while the mist is rising. It knows every inch of the ground, every rock, the height of the grass. When the zebra and wildrebeast arrive, it's ready. For these pictures, aim get there before the mist has burned off. That will give you that dreamy layered effect that will change over the next 2 hours.

nyschulte said:

I will post my keeper when finished.

Click to expand...

Did you manage to finish it. This is a good subject.

nyschulte said:

VR (nikkor 18-200)

Click to expand...

Tell me more? Is it like an L lens and what aperture did you use and was this with any filter, probably not? Anyway remove the filter for a start!

Asher

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I would clone out the towers & clone Nicole Kidman in


Cheers,

Paul

Paul,

So that what you's do! Wine her and photograph her until you both collapse!

Asher

My two centavos..

It's extremely easy to removed the wires from the first picture.
IMHO, it must be done since they do not add to the moody foggy country image, unless, as Asher, said, your point is to depict the industrialization process...

It's practically impossible to remove the tower (without essentially repaiting the whole thing and thus bringing in a totally different image), and it should not be done, since it's the primary subject of the picture.

I really don't see any moral or technical issues here. Would you remove the dust spot if one happend to be on your sensor? In this case, wires are just like those pesky dust blobs...

HTH

Nikolai,

It all depends what is in the mind of the photographer. I'm starting top write my current strong opinions as "My dogma" I'm up to # 3. This is an ongoing attempt to clarify for myself my approach to improving my own work.

In photography we need to go from a Vision to a Powerfui Print. The idea and print are powerful because they carry passion, presence and purpose and new possiblities that challenge us.

My working approach to making such evocative photographs is implied in an"Arc of Intent." It is an arc of process towards an idea of the mind being reinvoked down the road by a new observor who then experiences and understands some of what the artist intended, completing this arc of intent or communication.

By studying, scouting, imagining and dreaming one develops a compelling concept that must be given form, framed and embedded to a physical medium. That process implies intent and a direction. So first the photographer has to learn to develop some access to the richness of the highest levels in the brain.

1. Technical perfection can distract as well as help. Scout, look again and again, to inform your inner being, like a lion does in hunting its prey.
   
   
2. The film sensor is totally dumb and unskilled and cannot keep up with wonder and passion! I believe we are not after capturing exactly and only what the angle and tilt of the lens brings to the recording medium, film or whatever.
   
   
3. At the final moment it's not what the camera might capture that has to be imprinted on paper, but but the magic from your mind.
   
   

So yes, Nikolai, we concur. Sure, it's unfortunate there are dust spots, hairs an old shoe or a telegraph wire. If I didn't envisage in my brain, who cares what the camera saw. The camera is a dumb machine! For me, at least, the highest level of artistic truth is in my own imagination.*
Anyone else likes it, fine. If someone would buy it, better still.

This is with fine art.

For product, wedding, fashion and so forth, one is delivering to ceetain high tecnical expectations and one cannot get away with having the waiters or lighting poles in every shot of the bride and groom.

They pay for magic, so get rid of the garbage that the bride and her mother will hate for ever.

With the scene here, however, I can see the pictures shown in a dyptich with the wire there and removed. That would be a commentary. However, I'm open to whatever the artist would imagine.

In this case, I'd be happy to have the picture with or without the offending wires!

Asher

*Remember, w'ere not talking here about pictures where nothing should be altered, like legal, medical, forensic or news, jounalistic records. Here it is unconsionable to alter records. There the word manipulation truly belongs.

When ever I go out to shoot scenery

I always make sure, that lens is stopped DOWN as far as it can go!

This is just my personal preference! I want MAXIMUM depth of field, I want razor sharpness!


A TRIPOD.. is my most important TOOL! so that I can QUICKLY achieve the desired results

IN ANY TYPE OF LIGHT!

I Used to work with 1 minute - 3 minute exposures on a constant basis.

Photographing / copying very famous Art work, by some of the TOP ARTISTS in the Art world

Edna Hibel

Joseph Trippetti

Leroy Neiman

I have worked with these artists one on one for many years.!


It was ONLY because I could MATCH their ORIGNALS with EXACTING colors that I landed this contract!

to obtain this exacting match, I would use Vericolor professional film type L for long exposures

F 45 @ 1 minute

F 90 @ 3 minutes

NO BODY MOVE. everyone sit down! ( in the art gallery)

the textures looked and felt so believeable in these images. DUE TO DEPTH of field.


USE smallest F-stop(s) when possible. there is just no comparison!

Ansel Adams and Edward Weston were members of a very elite club. F64 was the name of this club. They always used that F stop when taking / creating their "masterpieces"!

What camera, David and why the same exposure for each?

Do you have a special light set up and if so, could you share it with us. The lighting is more important than almost anything.

Asher