...Fahim..... a buffalo Robe!

Hello my friend...

In the other thread we talked about paying the model etc etc...I mentioned a print series where i give the model the majority of the sale from it. So i thought i would post one of those images.I will have to send it to Asher and he will add it for me. on the forth coming new site i will be able to upload myself directly..That will be SO NICE.

Anyway....The one i am going to have hmi posted first is the first image in the series.Shes wrapped in a real buffalo robe. This i got from a man whos a Native American that raises the buffalo. He is Apachee Indian...The robe is just massive!!! Jordan is Eskimo and Native. Shes been called more then once a Indian Goddess....

This first picture that will be posted was a spur of the moment shot.We were leaving and Richard came out and said "hey I got this buffalo robe you can use if you want?" So i had to come up with a shot and only minutes to shoot it.


The second shot that will be posted was from when we went back and i already had it shot in my head....She has a REAL wolf skin on her head,again wrapped in the buffalo robe and has a REAL tee pee behind her....This shot is the most popular one and its stunning.

I sell these images in 5 by 7 mostly. People love the large images but can not afford them.The first one posted is a limited edition print size being 12 by 24....Priced at $157.00 Now...I said i give her 75%....To be exact i am not sure if its that much....The $157.00 she will get $110.00 so what ever that is percentage wise....Of the 12 by 18 which is priced at $137.00 she will get $100.00 On the 5 by 7's i get the full amount.I sell those for $11.00....If the run ever catches fire and sells she stands to make several thousand dollars......

Anyway......I just thought i'd share some of the pictures from that....Maybe Asher will let me post some of the Fine Art nudes i did with Cabrea...Those pictures i am extremely proud of.It was my first attempt at Fine Art nudes and i just absolutely nailed it....

But for now the Heritage Series Image of Jordan.......(Image to appear shortly,Thanks Asher) done

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Next to appear will be the color image thats so very popular and a black an white one that i love but have gotten very little positive feed back on...Myself its about my favorite...They are both avaiable in a 8 by 12 or a 12 by 18 or a 20 by 30....(Image To Appear Shortly)

Hi Erik,

This is really a wonderful shot. But one must hunt within one's Joy. The picture has such a bulk of buffalo your lady is hardly important. The grass is in fact the second most important element. Everything below the top of the upper yellow patch of grass works against interest in the girl. Remove that and you will see she has vision and the live buffalo in the b.g. completes the picture very well.

Read what I wrote on Cedric Massoulier's picture about the problem of the photographer having been present "there" compared to being disciplined to find "what makes the image carry your excitement in the most effective way". Telling the "truth", as the camera recorded does not do this in almost all cases. Was the grass really that important? Was the detail to the edge so noticable?

If what you want to do is record that she was lost in a gigagntic buffalo coat, that, you have done very well. However, cropped the way I suggested your picture becomes a photograph I'd enjoy seeing again.

Asher

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Asher....To crop that as you were saying, you have to keep in mind this is a print...When cropping you have to keep the aspect ratio.....To crop it as you mention i'd lose the buffalo in the background...

Also this image is NOT about the model..It is NOT intended to be a model shot...

Hi, Asher,

Asher Kelman said:

Hi Erik,

Remove that and you will see she has vision and the live buffalo . . .

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Bison.

Why do I have the feeling that I saw this thread before as a skit on BBC-on-PBS?

Best regards,

Doug

ErikJonas said:

Asher....To crop that as you were saying, you have to keep in mind this is a print...When cropping you have to keep the aspect ratio.....To crop it as you mention i'd lose the buffalo in the background...

Also this image is NOT about the model..It is NOT intended to be a model shot...

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Well, Erik,

Your current image shape does not requires a special frame anyway!


Still, if this is not what you want, if it doesn't resonate with you, then ignore this suggestion. I am impressed with her lineage to the culture of the buffalo, albeit that it's in prison behind a wire fence. In a way, so are the native Americans in the reservations.

There are many ways to present your one picture here. It's worthwhile to try different approaches and allow things to develop. The original form may very well be most powerful after your final processing. The idea is excellent. This still has a way to go in work but it's still awfully impressive and poignant as a sight. I'm sure everyone is thrilled with the picture exactty as you have worked it in its long form. If printed large it may be very effective.

Asher

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Right you are Asher....I was stuck in the mind set of the print size being 12 by 24....I could do something like a 12 by 12 image with it.....Oh and we did go back and shoot in the field but i'll tell you what that Bull which is just a monsterus size is very very intimidating!!!!!!!

ErikJonas said:

Right you are Asher....I was stuck in the mind set of the print size being 12 by 24....I could do something like a 12 by 12 image with it.....Oh and we did go back and shoot in the field but i'll tell you what that Bull which is just a monsterus size is very very intimidating!!!!!!!

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Erik,

There's a major barrier to photographing other people's that we have trampled on and humiliated. We have to be so careful not just being condescending or plain exploitative. None of these evils are in your picture. I'm impressed with your sincerity.

Now I'd like to see the rest of the shoot. These pictures might also be worth exploring in B&W to banish the color which gives us superficial rushes of emotion. Strip the extra emotional decorations of color here and see what you've got. Work hard on this an it will pay off.

BTW, I never once saw Jordan as a model here, not for a second. Yes, she's acting a part and having fun, but there is also something here that represents a major wound in American history. As a native American she has a lot of history on her side, eskimo or Navajo, she is part of this land!

Asher

Hi, Erik,

Buffalo Robe 2 is wonderful.

Something funny seems to have happened to Buffalo Robe 3 on the way to the forum. The feather (if that's what it is) looks as if it was edited in (and badly). And it's a really strange square crop.

Best regards,

Doug

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Thats a Eagle Feather provided by the Native American who provided the buffalo robe....And never will i edit anything into a picture.....Well other then the watermark lol....And i still very much like this image be it you or Asher dont...In fact no one in the forum can like it that will not change how i personally feel....The image is outstanding.....

We shot a number of images in 35 degree weather with gusting winds which i dont know what the wind chill factor would be....We would shoot as long as we could take it an then run to the car to get warm and then shoot some more...That,the BW and others were shot in the mountains,White Pass to be exact....

ErikJonas said:

Thats a Eagle Feather provided by the Native American who provided the buffalo robe....And never will i edit anything into a picture.....Well other then the watermark lol....And i still very much like this image be it you or Asher dont...In fact no one in the forum can like it that will not change how i personally feel....The image is outstanding.....

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Erik,

You can ignore me, LOL but Doug, AFAIK, is married to a native American! If he says the feather could be better imaged, he's probably right. I personally thought it was part of a roof covered with snow. I didn't comment on it since I like the image and didn't want to be negative. But once you admit its a feather, come on, you got to show it right! I love that line being a superb white feather. It will be very pretty on her.

Did you shoot it in RAW? Then you might be able to recover the detail. Doing that is not altering the image, it's presenting it properly. That's what we did in the chemical darkroom all the time! That's what photography is, the craft of presenting every single part of the image with the right weight it deserves. Say you won't alter anything is silly and under-serves you own purposes.

ErikJonas said:

We shot a number of images in 35 degree weather with gusting winds which i dont know what the wind chill factor would be....We would shoot as long as we could take it an then run to the car to get warm and then shoot some more...That,the BW and others were shot in the mountains,White Pass to be exact....

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Yes, you did admirably with those conditions. Now please see it you can get that feather back!

Asher

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Sorry Asher,was nto ignoring you...I'm tired and my computer is pissing me off, running very slow, had to re-boot....I'm just going to bed. Daniels dad is in town from Japan and i'm doing some family pictures for her tomorrow and going to be having night mares all night that they turn out like pathetic snap shots as all my family pictures have thus far....

As i have posted i never shoot raw...I need to go back and look at the file...Evereything i shoot i shoot full manual and i always under exspose the image...To me the feather looks fine....One thing in that image its a very low res image...The print looks just fine....

Dunno....Going to bed though....Lot of running around to do tomorrow...(Stupid computer)

Erik, thanks for the lovely pictures and I need time to do them justice. Immediately I mistook this thread to be addressing the culinary habits of the sheet Indians!

But all seems to be well.

take care.

Well these are certainly not ordinary image themes, Erik.

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Fahim....lol culinary habits???....Hmmmmm kind of lost on that....Take all the time you need...I was going to post some of Cabrea but perhaps a few more of Jordans Heritage series...Which they are very popular and they do sell so.....So of the images I can adjust or make changes in.The ones that are already sold as a limited edition print i dont think it would be good to make any changes that kind of corups the series....Thats not putting it how i want...

Anyway...Fahim i look forward to your honest input i know you will be honest and kind just as Asher and Doug....See you later today maybe...

I'll e-mail Asher another to post from the White Pass images....Unbearably cold yet Jordan still pulls off a great look to the camera........Erik....

Two and Three are especially good.

To address a minor point first...sheet Indians are from the Indian sub-continent. In the Hindu religion
cows and buffalos are sacred and not meat providers.

The photograph..yes. Photographs portraying any specific human culture has to be done with sensitivity..
for the past, present and the future. That you have done. The very choice of Jordan is a wise choice. That she beautifully wears the robe with the bisons in the background connect with me. She has a forlorn look,
beautifully captured as if she is thinking of her noble ancestors..the time when they and the bisons roamed a land that was theirs..and which I believe is still theirs.

I could do with a little less sky and a slight increase in contrast.

#2 is what Jordan and her ancestors are about. I would revisit it, if possible, and have the same costume
in an overall native environment. This is more like a tourist wearing a piece of clothing and having his/her
photo taken as a momento of a visit.

#3 something in the feather is not right. I do not know what.

A lovely series, photographed with obvious sincerity and zeal.

Well done.

fahim mohammed said:

To address a minor point first...sheet Indians are from the Indian sub-continent. In the Hindu religion
cows and buffalos are sacred and not meat providers.

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Fahim,

My ignorance, what or who are the sheet Indians? I cannot find that term except in making cut-outs from paper sheets or some"fact sheet".

Sent as PM rather than post.

Mahatma Ghandi rather than Chief Sitting Bull.

Asher Kelman said:

Fahim,

My ignorance, what or who are the sheet Indians? I cannot find that term except in making cut-outs from paper sheets or some"fact sheet".

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Here's your latest picture and one of my favorites.


I especially like her engagement with us and the reassurance that her feather is indeed a beautiful thing. This is the best use of the buffalo robe, to give an accent but not overwhelm her. It's so hard to photograph indigenous peoples and do justice to them, not as toys we condescendingly admire, but as the proud people, who's treks from the frozen tundras of the North gave rise to the most amazing array of peoples anywhere. I'm so happy to see this portrait. I am sure she is proud of your effort too.

I wish you worked in RAW. There may be a lot more detail in that feathor and a lot of the value of your photograph depends on it.

Now when you shoot in jpg, presumably it's in 8 BIT files? If so, much of the data on that feather simply is not there. However, the proof is in the pudding, maybe you have much more in the file at full size than what's obvious here. If so, you might consider bringing out detail in the important feather.

Asher

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Asher...Thankyou...There is a amazing differance between this low res file posted here and the actual 12 by 18 print...A lot.....

If you'd post it i will send you another image from this series that was shot prior to the White Pass set...It is very very much a Fine Art shot..This one would NOT be considered Fine Art...Then as stated at the start of this thread i'd like to post some of Cabrea....Post/have posted.....

Well first maybe i could post some others of Jordan...Shes got such a versitle look..Then some of Cabrea....

Today i met a blond with BLUE BLUE eyes....I was like damn it i have to photograph that so i walked up an talked to her....Photographing people is such amazing fun to create a image that captures more then just the person it conveys emotion....

And Fahim my friend i hope you like this one.... =)

Bring 'em on!

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Asher....I'm about to e-mail you another from the series that i shot in late 2008...This picture is done in a way to make it look very old...I didnt want it to look current and snazzy all all crisp an sharp....So bear that in mind....

Then instead of going to images of Cabrea i might post/have posted, two of Jordan in a more modern look....

In the one i am sending....That massive bull just behind her got with in like 15 feet of her...I could not only hear him breathing these massive deep breaths i could nearly feel it.....I asked Jordan if she was okay an she said she was fine, i was the one who was pretty nervous...Richard was out there with us, the owner and so was his dog Shylow a massive size dog called a Gladiator its a cross between a Doberman and a Rotwiler.......But still with something that incredably big...Its a bit un-nerving....

Hi Erik,

I just found your picture in my mail.




The massive bull is so close! I do hope someone there knows how to distract and turn their attention away!

Thanks for adding this B&W picture. The more you share of this series, the more I'm enjoying her work with you! She has a lot of guts and believes in what she's doing and that's good.

Asher

Shame about the trees growing out of her head.

Regards,

Stuart

ErikJonas said:

Right you are Asher....I was stuck in the mind set of the print size being 12 by 24....I could do something like a 12 by 12 image with it.....Oh and we did go back and shoot in the field but i'll tell you what that Bull which is just a monsterus size is very very intimidating!!!!!!!

Erik jonas: Buffalo Robe 2

Erik jonas: Buffalo Robe 3 Square crop, ADK​

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I have just come across this thread and I think this black and white one is particularly nice. You maye think I am biased because I like black and white and many of mine are black and white, but actually I like appropriate use of black and white where colour wouldn't add anything special to the image and may even detract.

I like the freshness and immediacy of it. It is one of those moments that is caught and difficult to stage or reproduce and get the same connection without looking contrived. well done

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StuartRae said:

Shame about the trees growing out of her head.

Regards,

Stuart

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Okay Mr. One Dimensional yes she has trees growing out of her head...Wonder what you'd say about the shots i've done of her in front of a waterfall "oh shes got a waterfall coming out of her head".....And you really think its possible to shoot a model in or around a forest without trees behind her?

ErikJonas said:

Okay Mr. One Dimensional yes she has trees growing out of her head...Wonder what you'd say about the shots i've done of her in front of a waterfall "oh shes got a waterfall coming out of her head".....And you really think its possible to shoot a model in or around a forest without trees behind her?

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Erik, Stuart,

Let's stay civil in our exchanges. Posting in a forum doesn't always succeed in properly conveying emotions, so the intentions of remarks can be misinterpreted. I'm confident that Stuart's remark was intended with a bit of humor, but more so as a point of attention.

Obviously, when faced with a subject with both foreground and background detail, it is not always possible to avoid getting other (distracting) things in focus. The question is, how can we avoid that from happening, as it would most likely benefit the impact of the image.

One of the characteristis of OPF is that we can speak our minds, in a civil manner, and in return we can collect the benefits of the huge pool of knowledge. We can get pointed out things which may have escaped our attention, we can learn how others see an image without the personal involvement/prejudice we have ourselves, we can learn new methods of shooting/post processing, etc. When we have the intent to help and be open to learn from others, life becomes much more rewarding.

Cheers,
Bart

I, too, took Stuart's post as a humorous quip. And I think Erik is far too talented for such minor things to get under his skin. I suspect Erik doesn't realize how good he is, though.