Coaching the Bride and Groom for Best Photo-Ops?

In a couple of other threads, I mentioned that I photographed a wedding for one of my two closest friends, last week.

In the discussion about re-takes, here, several comments came up that I wanted to address in their own discussion.

Originally posted by Asher Kelman:

A lot of wedding photography is actually a symbiotic relationship between the event which is sort of staged not only for the event itself, but also to be photographed.

Click to expand...

Also...

Originally posted by Gary Ayala:

since the photog can/should/could prep the kissie and kisser (within reason) as to placement, angle, duration of event ... shouldn't be a problem for a skilled photog to capture the real deal.

Click to expand...

And...

Originally posted by Asher Kelman:

Any wedding I've been involved with, there was a dress rehearsal with clear definiton of the timing and placement of the key shots.

Click to expand...

It occurred to me after the wedding that, while the wedding photography I did went very well (pictures coming, soon), there were certain aspects which could have been easier for me to photograph, with some trivial changes. For example, to my surprise, the you may now kiss the bride kiss was an extremely brief peck... perhaps a quarter second, total. I did catch it, but I'd expected a solid smooch, two or more seconds long, allowing me more latitude. For another example, when I set myself in the best position (in relation to the angle of the sun) for photographing the bride and groom's first dance, out on the dance floor alone, the music started, and they turned their backs to me and danced facing a direction which could not easily be photographed.

There were many tiny incidents of this type. I dealt with them all successfully; however, it occurs to me that, if I'm shooting another wedding in the future, perhaps I should give the bride and the groom some pointers about how they can be photo friendly, in order to maximize opportunities. Yet, on the other hand, I wonder if this would be inappropriate, in the sense that I am there for them, not vice-versa, and I should try to be invisible in the performance of the job.

So, I'm wondering whether wedding photographers commonly coach brides and grooms on optimizing photo opportunities. I'm wondering how photographers feel about this, and how couples who are getting married feel about this.

Thanks.

Mike

www.mikespinak.com

Mike,

You can pat yourself on the back (where the rash has healed) and be appreciative that all those careful landscape and wildlife shots prepared your mind for the wedding shooting experience.

Yes you must coach everyone. All the main people need to come to the wedding rehearsal; bridesmaids, flower girl, page, in fact everyone in key shots. This makes everyone reassured and comfortable.

It is bad enough dealing with the fact that the dress is tight, the make-up artist is in hospital, two relatives started fighting again, Joe doesn't like his accommodation, it may rain, I'm breaking out with pimples and my ex lover is pressing me for one last tryst!

At least the bride and groom and family know that everything will be dreamy and magic on that day, because this photographer is professional and no matter what, (s)he'll get all our pictures right.

Being professional is merely being a good photographer, experienced, who has an ordered mind, a schedule, and a contract and can deliver on it.

I'll send you more!

Now it is a matter of making checklists and optimization. As you have found out, wedding photographers work very hard. The staging, practicing and coaching will also reassure them and you, both.


Asher

Mike Spinak said:

So, I'm wondering whether wedding photographers commonly coach brides and grooms on optimizing photo opportunities. I'm wondering how photographers feel about this, and how couples who are getting married feel about this.

Thanks.

Mike

www.mikespinak.com

Click to expand...

I can't speak for the rest of the world but in my market there is a definite trend towards the photojournalist approach. However I have yet to meet a bride that doesn’t want some pose photos. But I know some wedding photographers who absolutely refuse to pose their clients. And this is a constant problem for those PJ photographers who consider themselves purist. They have a term for it. They call it the bride that flies under the radar. A lot of them take great pains to screen out this type of client. Personally I find the PJ approach a lot easier but I prefer the pose photos so I don’t have a problem doing either. It is really up to my clients what they want me to do.

Bob

Bob Cooper said:

I can't speak for the rest of the world but in my market there is a definite trend towards the photojournalist approach. However I have yet to meet a bride that doesn’t want some pose photos. But I know some wedding photographers who absolutely refuse to pose their clients. And this is a constant problem for those PJ photographers who consider themselves purist. They have a term for it. They call it the bride that flies under the radar. A lot of them take great pains to screen out this type of client. Personally I find the PJ approach a lot easier but I prefer the pose photos so I don’t have a problem doing either. It is really up to my clients what they want me to do.

Bob

Click to expand...

Bob,

The "PJ" wedding photographer that wants to screen away brides that want classic "posed shots" (found in "old fashioned" magic albums) is strange to me. Still, I'm happy for these guys in they bring bread to their table anyway!

I would like to know however that this is not merely a cover up for lack of technic and experience to deliver what many if not most brides still want.

I believe that a very talented PJ photographer might deliver pictures that in the end would be more valued by the bride if they had, at the end to make an "either or" choice between the classic formal posed and the P.J. stye.

I'm just very wary of people glibly talking about P.J. style!

I think that's a term too easily used by inept photographers to cover up lack of skills!

Asher

Asher, I would agree with you in that from my experience there are very few PJ photographers who are technically competent in their photography to a professional level. Yes the image and the moment is what counts but when you are calling yourself a professional photographer I believe that whatever the style there is no excuse for anything but perfect exposures (i.e. no burn outs), no excuse for camera shake or unintended subject movement, no excuse for focusing errors, etc. It cannot be that photography is just about the composition and the moment, not on a professional level.

Of course few PJ photographers have any decent studio lighting skills and few know of the basics of posing, why what works does so. However I would say in their defence that I'm sure that there are many wedding photographers who do not want to have to pose or artifically light shots in that they just don't want or like to shoot in that style. Yes, I have studio lighting skills, but personally I hate shooting in that way at a wedding, it's so artificial. However my client base demands it and I do the very best I can. Give me a choice though and there would be no artificial lighting other than on camera fill at the weddings I do. Maybe one day I'll reach the level where I can dictate my clientele and not the other way round!

my first post

I usually attend the rehearsal, talk to the wedding party about slowing down a bit on the aisle, especially after the ceremony as they are in a hurry to leave typically.

I ask the bride and groom to hold the kiss or do a few to have time. Many kisses can appear awkward if snapped at the wrong time..

I will also, as a reminder, use a hand signal (slow down) for aisle shots. Most are appreciative that I took charge.

I did ask (whisper) the preacher, during the ceremony after the kiss, if he would move a darn microphone and stand out of the way for a re-kiss...The groom later thanked me for that. There's a lot of variables and every wedding is the same, and also different.

I do what I have to to get the shots, and hopefully with pre-planning, I can be as unobtrusive as possible.

Never be afraid to talk to the bride and groom and let them know the difficulties of a particular moment in the day, and what they could do to allow you to get a better shot for them.

As the professional

If you don't coach them as to what you need, well then how can they help you achieve the goal of great photography?

I went to the rehersal of the first wedding and had a meeting with the bride for my May wedding and guess what? - The wedding coordinator decided on the day of the wedding to change it all. So now the B&G who were all ready getting married at high noon were now going to get married in direct sun and where there was no where at all for a photographer to stand without blocking the view of all of the guests. There was no back of the room - it was on a patio setting at the venue and I had 4 feet of space between the bride and groom and the first row of seating. There was no time to have everything set up the way we discussed it originally-it was take it or leave it.

So I ended up (I was wearing silk) sitting on the ground, on my knees, so not to block the family. I had enough fill with me to avoid the shadows. My angle was a bit funny (I did take photos of their feet during the ceremony!) but I got it all as expected and then some.

The best part was yesterday, I got an email from the bride telling me how great the photos were. I did 50/50 PJ and posed. I agree that all pj is not my style. I like some candid and some psuedo posed - where you catch the B&G doing what they do at a wedding, you tell the story, but you catch the moments where they are talking, dancing and where some of those shots would almost pass for posed.

No matter what, you should coach them so you get the very best.

My own thoughts are somewhat different on this...

I don't know too many (if any) great PJ photographers who do not take formal or posed shots. They understand that they're a part of the family history and are important.

They still screen, though, because they only want to spend--at most--an hour interacting with the bride and groom. The rest of the time they are there, but as invisible as possible.

If the kiss during a ceremony lasts a micro-second, I for one would not coach it otherwise. I don't interfere with the ceremony if I can help it at all: no flash, long lenses and while I will go for position (always) I will do so in the least obtrusive way possible.

For me, the ceremony isn't about the photography. It's important, but not as important as the ceremony. So that's where my PJ side comes out.

Same for receptions, where I'm not guiding or coaching much at all. Unlike the ceremony, though, that's really because there's no need. Can you get more (often badly) posed than someone giving a speech? They're usually glued to the spot, afraid of the microphone, etc.. etc....

I like to have a couple of hours with the b&g and wedding party, and that's where I'll either direct--not coach--the action, or set up something where they just do something and I'm there to get it all. That depends on the bride and groom and what they want.

I've yet to attend a rehearsal, since I'm usually shooting someone else on the weekend rehearsals. I find I don't need to attend them, and the day never goes the same as the rehearsal anyway

I consider myself a PJ wedding photographer and I agree, a professional should have all the technical components down. I don't consider myself a purist "I will pose people" and I enjoy walking around the venue telling people to get together and smile. It is about the memories for the bride, period. I like to make people smile, laugh and have a good time.

But, there are reasons you get unintended motion blur or below par exposures in the PJ style which in my experiece can be very creative. A PJ photographer is always "looking", almost like street photography. Hunting for a fleeting moment in time. Many times I see something that if I hesitate, it is instantly gone. I only have time to lift my camera and shoot. These situations are in constantly changing light and sometimes your camera is not set for that moment but you shoot. So one of the major skills of a PJ photographer is to see a creative composition in a moments notice.


David Myles Stam
www.davidmylesphotography.com