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day at the farm

In the blistering heat it was time to shoot some for fun and experiment with different styles, shot with a 5D and 70-200 f2.8L IS.

With thanks to:
Model : Roosmarijn
MUA : Nienke
Fellow photographer : Erik

1.
Roosmarijn_30_Juli_2008_%2884_of_140%29.jpg


2.
Roosmarijn_30_Juli_2008_%28133_of_140%29.jpg


3.
Roosmarijn_30_Juli_2008_%2852_of_140%29.jpg


4.
Roosmarijn_30_Juli_2008_%2823_of_140%29.jpg




MvrGr.
Frank
 

Johan Combrink

New member
Strange for there to be no comments here, but some rather interesting outside work here Frank. I do like all of them and the tonal range and colours are simply great.

For me number 3 does not work, and that is simpe due to the lighting or look on the models face here, so that is just a personal opinion. Her neck and face seem rather "hard" looking here, but perhaps that is what works for the shot for some.

Overall, thanks for sharing and always enjoy viewing your work Frank.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Frank,

I especially like number 1.

"Hot, hot, hot."

The blown-out sun just peeking into the frame gives a nice signal as to the weather context.
 
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Bill Miller

New member
When evaluating the above photos there is only one that stands out. It is obvious. The others do not illustrate anything special. A shot of a girl in a field shielding her eyes from the sun. A horse’s shoulder with a girl rider and high heels. A girl standing in a weed patch like she is hung on a cross.

Three of these would not qualify as fashion, why? There is no emphases on the garment. Fashion is all about the clothes and nothing more.

The lighting, focus and exposure are great.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Bill,

When evaluating the above photos there is only one that stands out. It is obvious. The others do not illustrate anything special. A shot of a girl in a field shielding her eyes from the sun. A horse’s shoulder with a girl rider and high heels. A girl standing in a weed patch like she is hung on a cross.

Three of these would not qualify as fashion, why?

But what about glamor, a listed topic of this forum?

Fashion is all about the clothes and nothing more.

You have my sympathy.

That's good news for mannequin or coathanger manufacturers, bad news for runway models.

Doug
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Bill,

There's something in what you say. However, I'd look at the last two and say, "That's a well set up theme. Let's see that in another angle and we'll get the dress and shoes to to the importance we want.

In a high fashion shoot there's a design team that decided what was wanted way ahead of the shoot. A whole crew is present to get things in the correct position.

By contrast, Franks has to light the model perfectly. That's what his job is. He is in fact the whole team. The art director in the team would have given that pointer in one second and the shot would be perfect.

I'm glad you speak your mind. We don't want OPF to just say, "Wow!" when the girl is beautiful. That's not the point. It's the clothes too. The girl is just the magnet and the mirage to the woman's interest.

In that, the pictures succeed. A woman looks at Vogue to see herself in a way that the mirror cannot show. Frank can created both the magnet and the mirage and add to that the lighting. These the most difficult. Then in the final delivery, we do need more of the beautiful dress and shoes. These, after all need to be sold. Unless it's a thematic story and more pictures will reveal the details with new pictures. That also works. al this depends on the vision of the advertising intent for the clothes and shoes or the magazine editor, for an article.

Asher
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
....
Three of these would not qualify as fashion, why? There is no emphases on the garment. Fashion is all about the clothes and nothing more.
..
Hi Bill,

Firstly, I can't find where Frank has mentioned that these would be fashion photos. I have the impression that he was having some fun in his spare time. Or he might have been shooting editorial.

Secondly, while fashion does not equate to garment only but also to other things such as make-up, I was curious and browsed through some Vogues and Elles we have at home. And not to my surprise, there were many pictures in there like the ones shot by Frank.

Cheers,
 
It was as mentioned just some free time shooting and playing arround with different looks, maybe to use in the future when needed.

I never think too much about clothing in my free work, it has to be beautiful and it has to be correct, but the story behind the shots is more important for me.

The cross shot as you called it, is more of a surrender to nature.
However nice we may cloth ourself in the end it all comes down to one thing and one thing only and that is we will become one with nature.
Religious people can think a second layer to the story by the cross and the dark surroundings. For me I leave that in the middle, I do believe but I'm not a church go-er so I find it hypoctrique to call that in my work.
In this shot however it was running through my mind.

We talked about this before Bill, some people have a preset in their mind and that's T&A or Fashion or Beauty and that's it.
I'm much more of a concept people, and I know you told me there is no money in concepts, but it's what I like :D

And I can earn money with Fashion and Glamour but this is free work, and than I love to have some concept in SOME shots.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
some people have a preset in their mind and that's T&A or Fashion or Beauty and that's it.
I'm much more of a concept people, and I know you told me there is no money in concepts, but it's what I like :D

And I can earn money with Fashion and Glamour but this is free work, and than I love to have some concept in SOME shots.
That term, "T&A" is so unfortunate but does represent a major money maker for photographers. Still, the word upsets me as it seems so demeaning to women.

Asher
 

Bill Miller

New member
I'm much more of a concept people, and I know you told me there is no money in concepts, but it's what I like :D

And I can earn money with Fashion and Glamour but this is free work, and than I love to have some concept in SOME shots.


First of all there is always money in concepts, one only need look at The F Stop these are true money shots and all concepts. It is the execution of it, that determines if its a money shot, no matter fashion, glamour, beauty, sports etc. As I mentioned the last 3 are lacking in execution. for the reasons stated. If they are part of a "concept" then where are the other shots that link them together. Standing alone, they lack execution as a concept and become only an outtake from the session.

Frank showed excellent skills in delivering a concept with "Snakecharmer"

What might help if they are a concept, state the concept. Yes these were"free work" however that does not change the fact. I would really be interested in seeing some of your high fashion and glamour work, tear sheets.
 
Magazine work over here is not interesting for glamour or fashion, there are some publications on www.frankdoorhof.com/portfolio
Most what you find there is advertising (Elinchrom, Seaheart, MJG etc.), I also photograph people like musicians, VIPs and sporters, the rest of what I do is for fashion designers and modelagencies for the Netherlands that's were the money is and the fun (with the last being the most important).

A normal fashion spread pays app 400.00 euros over here, that's not enough to pay for the time, MUA, stylist, models and get a good living.

That's one of the reasons a few years ago I decided to turn it all over to teaching workshops, making instructional DVDs etc. and believe me that keeps me busy the whole week, and it earns me a good living.

Again, think outside the box.
In the states pay for magazines are probarbly alot higher because you keep bringing that up, in the Netherlands the pay for the magazines range from 75.00 euro to maybe 500-600 euro for a good publication, for that kind of money you can't make a decent living.

The photographers earning more are the ones with years and years of networking in advertising, and often tells nothing about the quality (some are good, some are really bad).

For me I decided to do what I love most and that's teaching workshops, and I don't think you need more info on that :D

Again, you can't see everything B&W like you do publications and you are a real pro.
There are within photography alot of side areas. For me my carreer is in teaching workshops. And I think I do very well at that :D
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
First of all there is always money in concepts, one only need look at The F Stop these are true money shots and all concepts. It is the execution of it, that determines if its a money shot, no matter fashion, glamour, beauty, sports etc. As I mentioned the last 3 are lacking in execution. for the reasons stated. If they are part of a "concept" then where are the other shots that link them together. Standing alone, they lack execution as a concept and become only an outtake from the session.

Frank showed excellent skills in delivering a concept with "Snakecharmer"

What might help if they are a concept, state the concept. Yes these were"free work" however that does not change the fact. I would really be interested in seeing some of your high fashion and glamour work, tear sheets.

Bill,

Yes you're right, brilliant ideas are indeed ten a penny. However, Frank does get people to a position where they can succeed if they have the talent to use what he teaches. Really art cannot be taught. One can only guide people on their own path. Frank does this well.

In a master class for music, the maestro will occasionally take up the baton or the sit with the Cello and show how the note should be played. He doesn't play the whole concerto. Frank's job is to teach lighting and the way of dealing with the MUA and the model. He shows enough of the elements that a creative photographer can go off and better execute their intent and imagination. Although you make some excellent points and your links are really interesting, Frank's work stands as worthy despite whatever shortcoming in these particular shots you point out.

I really imagine that the woman on the horse would lead the magazine article. Not showing off, obviously, the featured garments for sale in the first page would be part of the seduction. However the images that follow would indeed detail the shoes, dress, jewelry and more. Zoozoom often works like that and so do some print magazines. The first picture can be a teaser. The next pictures close the deal. In any case, your points are well taken and appropriate but you already know all of Frank's work, so what's new!

I like the last more beautiful mood pictures not the very clear sexually aggressive first picture. That blouse shot is totally obvious and "in one's face". I prefer "ladies" than "women" and subtle more than bursting at the seams. Just my taste and not a social judgement.

Asher
 

Johan Combrink

New member
Great reading and a lot of learning for a guy like me. Being way down south in Africa, i must say any magazine work does not really pay well here too. I actually make my living from 2 photographic labs which i have and they keep me busy with the public......oh what fun :D

Anyway. I am not as aggresive in marketing myself as I should or could be, but feel it would be better to do so when you are more comfortable with your work, and in your own heart feel it is world class quaity.

I know this is off topic slightly, but would love some advice on this, and i going in the right direction by being patient and continue to improve my work, until I am satisfied.

I have only being doing photography for 2 year (Was in IT for 12 years), and I feel the experience here from the guys is rather valuable.
 
Wait till you are 100% sure of yourself, often you get ONE shot.
That's why I also don't HUNT for it, if people come for me it's ok, I will go when I know I'm at the top of my game.
 
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