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A few questions for Alain Briot about his 9600 printer

Will Thompson

Well-known member
Hi Alain,

Do you still use your Epson Pro 9600 printer?

Has having it affected your over all way you conducting your business? If yes how?

What has been the greatest drawback from using it?

What has pleased you the most using it?


Thank You!
 

Alain Briot

pro member
Hi Alain,

Do you still use your Epson Pro 9600 printer?
No. I now use the 9900.

Has having it affected your over all way you conducting your business? If yes how?
Yes, I was able to make big prints.

What has been the greatest drawback from using it?
There's no drawback.

What has pleased you the most using it?
Being able to make big prints.


Thank You!
You are welcome
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Do you still use your Epson Pro 9600 printer?No. I now use the 9900.
Hi Alain,

I'm sure you feel the 9900 is better or else you wouldn't have spent the extra cash! Still, I'd love to get a feel for how much difference there is for you. Of course, it might be more convenient to use for different black inks, but I'm wondering about the print output.

Showing your prints to your good wife Natalie or another person you trust, would two prints on the same paper side by side be recognized as different and the 9900 better on the various papers you use and your subject matter? IOW, would you now recommend folk go with the 9900 for the quality of the print or is the difference marginal.

Asher
 

Alain Briot

pro member
The 9900 has a larger color gamut than the 9800.

The 9800 had deeper blacks and a larger gamut than the 9600.

The 9600 is outdated.

Always buy the latest printer.

The only reason to buy an older model, such as the 9600 in this instance, is because you cannot afford the current model.
 

Will Thompson

Well-known member
Can you actually see a difference on matte paper with matte ink?

Many a professional print master on the Epson large format printer email group has said there is no noticeable difference when using matte!

Is this true?
 

Alain Briot

pro member
Can you actually see a difference on matte paper with matte ink?

Many a professional print master on the Epson large format printer email group has said there is no noticeable difference when using matte!

Is this true?

Will,

It is not. Furthermore, the larger color gamut is visible on all papers, matte, luster or glossy.

I think the real question is why would you want to buy an outdated printer? Is it because of cost?
 
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Alain Briot

pro member
Keep in mind when reading my comments that my goal is to create the finest quality prints, bar none, regardless of cost, effort or time. I make a living selling fine art prints at high prices. My goal is quality, not quantity. I also do not try to save money on equipment, ink or paper. I use the finest of everything. I built my career around this concept and collectors expect the highest level of quality from me.

If you are trying to reduce your costs, or "come close" to the quality of the top printers with older equipment, I am not the person to ask because this is not what I do or teach.

On the other hand if your goal is to create the finest prints in the world, regardless of cost, time, learning curve, etc. I am the right person.

Digital equipment constantly improves, and the latest equipment, so far, has proved better than previous equipment. I am not one to buy things just because they are new. If I buy new digital photography equipment it is because it gives me a visible improvement compared to previous equipment.

When I was teaching at the University, a student asked me "What do I have to do to get a C in your class?" I told him I was the wrong person to ask because my goal was not to teach C students. I told him I could tell him how to get an A (do everything required well) or an F (do nothing) but a C, I had no idea.
 
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Alain Briot

pro member
Hi, Will,


Are you referring to the use of Matte Black ink compared to Photo Black ink when printing on on matte paper?

Best regards,

Doug

Matte paper requires the matte black ink. That's what I use. There's no point comparing the two blacks on matte paper since the matte black is clearly superior and was designed for matte paper.

And yes, the quality of the latest printer is superior to all the previous printers. I think that's the 3rd time I say this. That's why Epson is successful selling their new printers. They're better! Why else would we spend our money otherwise?

These machines are built to last and when they get retired they're still working well. I don't replace them because they're not working properly. I replace them because the new ones are better!

That's a staple of digital photography: equipment is retired while still in excellent working condition. Very different from film days where I would replace a camera because I worked it to death, literally. Now we replace equipment that still works great because new equipment is much better. We end up having expensive "door stops."
 

Will Thompson

Well-known member
Hi Alain,

Just because something is the newest, latest greatest and most expensive is not any guarantee that it is of better quality or of more value, only more costly and is usually a waste of money! Just ask the US buying public as to the quality and value of GM cars! As with most equipment It is not the machine but the operator's skill that makes the difference. Case in point the instructors at the US Navy Top Gun fighter Pilot school that can beat the pants off of the students with 30 year old equipment(and the students are experienced pilots). By the way I can use the newest Epson inks in the 9600 and get the same results but choose to not to pay 6 times the price. If I was going to print on a regular basis with some volume I would use a newer ink from a professional ink manufacturer with a RIP and color profile to match that will outperform the Epson offerings by quite a bit for a lot less money.

Besides even with a 15 year old profiled Epson stylus 800n CMYK print once under protective UV glass you would be hard pressed to tell the difference from the current printers and inks Epson has.
 

Andrew Rodney

New member
Besides even with a 15 year old profiled Epson stylus 800n CMYK print once under protective UV glass you would be hard pressed to tell the difference from the current printers and inks Epson has.

With a good file, it would be very easy to see the differences!

With the proper files, its pretty easy to see the differences between the original and newer Vivid magenta and far more between K3 and HDR inks. You have to send the proper kind of image to the printer, have a document that's properly handled and have a good look at the samples but I have such samples and I can clearly see the differences. Only YOU can decide if the cost of the newer equipment is worth the differences seen. I highly suspect Alain has done all this testing prior to upgrading.
 

Alain Briot

pro member
With a good file, it would be very easy to see the differences!

With the proper files, its pretty easy to see the differences between the original and newer Vivid magenta and far more between K3 and HDR inks. You have to send the proper kind of image to the printer, have a document that's properly handled and have a good look at the samples but I have such samples and I can clearly see the differences. Only YOU can decide if the cost of the newer equipment is worth the differences seen. I highly suspect Alain has done all this testing prior to upgrading.

Hi Rodney,

Thank you for your comments. Yes, I did all the testing! That's why I can say (4th time now) that the latest Epson printers are better than all those who came before, regardless of what paper you print on, matte, glossy, luster, etc.

Will,

In this case the latest product is the best! It's usually the case with digital technology since improvements are constant and significant. As Rodney suggests, doing a comparison test with a properly prepared image will show the differences. It did for me.

Alain
 

Mike Shimwell

New member
Hi Alain

Off topic, but Rodney is actually Andrew:) Easy mistake though.

I have to say that I have found the differences between the couple of printers I've used interesting - even though they have all preformed well there are real visible differences in gamut between the Canon IPF inkset and the HP Z series inks. These are different again from the epson inkset in the 2100 (2200) printers. All are far ahead of the aftermarket inks I ran for a while in the epson, due to the extremely high cost of ink in small cartridges.

Mike
 

Will Thompson

Well-known member
Hi Andrew,

Was Vlad able to get you the 9600 inks at the price you were looking for?


With a good file, it would be very easy to see the differences!

With the proper files, its pretty easy to see the differences between the original and newer Vivid magenta and far more between K3 and HDR inks. You have to send the proper kind of image to the printer, have a document that's properly handled and have a good look at the samples but I have such samples and I can clearly see the differences. Only YOU can decide if the cost of the newer equipment is worth the differences seen. I highly suspect Alain has done all this testing prior to upgrading.

And if I supplied the proper file I am sure I could show how the older Epson 9600 was better!

SO WHAT!
 

Bill Miller

New member
Trash the old printers!!

And if I supplied the proper file I am sure I could show how the older Epson 9600 was better!

SO WHAT!

Will,

Why even ask the question if you are so confident about the 9600? You have a 9600 that you bought and it seems that now you are trying to justify that its a great unit. This whole subject should have been addressed to Alain in an email in the 1st place. He has answered your question 4 times already and you do not want to accept it. The fact remains the the newer printer produces a superior print. Here is how you find out. Create a 300dpi file 8x10 print, use that file to print on various printers, Epson 9600, Epson 9900 and the new Canons. Then and only then will you be able to compare the results.

Personally I have my large prints done on a Chromira Printer using Fuji Paper by Westcoastimaging.com That is my choice and my cost is lower than using a Epson 9xxx series printer due to low volume. My large format printer 48" wide while working perfectly went one place "the dumpster, along with the inks.
 

Andrew Rodney

New member
This whole subject should have been addressed to Alain in an email in the 1st place. He has answered your question 4 times already and you do not want to accept it.

Its clear he feels, "Facts are no match for belief!"

Its therefore pointless to get into a religious discussion with him (or for that matter, anyone).
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Its clear he feels, "Facts are no match for belief!"

Its therefore pointless to get into a religious discussion with him (or for that matter, anyone).
Well, Andrew,

I do value Alain's input on the printers as he has used them. However, just as we don't exepct Rembrandt to jump out of his grave and grab modern pigments to solve issues he had to flub with his meager sources, so many fine photographers are perfectly happy with the 9600 output of their best work.

I feel that Alain might very well know circumstances where even with great pictures, the 9600 quality would hardly be surpassed by the newer printer. Alain is Alain and he expresses things in his way! We all have our particular ways! I think privately he might say, "Show me your photographs and I'll tell you whether it would make a difference on your paper of choice if I know it". It's simpler, however, to just say, get the best! Like in the olden days, "No one ever got fired for ordering IBM!" Yes, it's something like that,



Alain,

What I have asked is whether or not prints given to a nice intelligent friend would be obviously different to them without prompting?




Asher
 

Alain Briot

pro member
"Alain, What I have asked is whether or not prints given to a nice intelligent friend would be obviously different to them without prompting?"

Yes. For the fifth time, the print quality of the 9900 outperforms all previous Epson printers. Please see my previous 4 answers for details. This is the last time I answer this question. Please read my previous answers or refer to this one. At this point this is getting pointless since I keep answering the same question. And, as has been suggested several times in this thread, make your own tests and come to your own conclusions with prints in hand. That's what I did.
 

Will Thompson

Well-known member
Why even ask the question

Where exactly did I ever ask for a comparison to any printer in this thread?

The only questions I give a rats ass about are the ones in the original post.

It seems that if any one uses anything earlier than the latest and greatest they get bashed for it.

Even the Canon D30 still kicks the crap out of many newer DSLR's when it comes to overall image quality.

I only asked for information on the 9600 but got a whole bunch of mine is "bigger than yours" type of add on responses.


Alain's original response was the best even if it was rather short it was to the point and much appreciated.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
"Alain, What I have asked is whether or not prints given to a nice intelligent friend would be obviously different to them without prompting?"

Yes. For the fifth time, the print quality of the 9900 outperforms all previous Epson printers. Please see my previous 4 answers for details. This is the last time I answer this question. Please read my previous answers or refer to this one. At this point this is getting pointless since I keep answering the same question. And, as has been suggested several times in this thread, make your own tests and come to your own conclusions with prints in hand. That's what I did.
Alain,

Thanks, I was not trying to repeat anything! I just wanted to know what how other folk besides you reacted. All I wanted to do is distinguish between your judgement which is finely honed from years of experience and those with no such expertise.

From your answer, can I take it that you are saying that another individual would normally notice immediately that the 9600 print is inferior? If that's indeed what you are saying, then my question is fully answered.

I just wasn't sure what you meant. I know you have repeatedly asserted that the 9900 outperforms all previous Epson printers. That's clear and I believe that. What you didn't make clear specifically in your answer is whether 3rd person seeing two prints side by side would find that distinction obvious.

Of course, we could run such a test, but I thought you might have discovered that specific answer for other people.

Sorry if my repeated questions seems pointless but I really have not got beyond the fact that the 9900 is superior!

Asher
 

Jack_Flesher

New member
I just wanted to know what how other folk besides you reacted.

In all fairness to Alain, why on earth should he be expected to surmise how another with less, the same or even more experience might react? IMHO Alain (Andrew too) has been extremely clear in his position that the 9900 is superior to the 9600, and moreover has stated the specifics of why he feels it is.

I will toss my hat in this and add that for anybody that has looked at the output even casually, the superiority of the latter should be clear unless they are color blind -- and that's regardless of whether or not we are talking art or photo media...

To complicate things, I will add that for *grayscale* images printed on either art or photo media, it is my opinion the difference between the x800 and x900 output is minimal -- however the improvement of both x800 and x900 over x600 grayscale is significant, even if the x600 has a RIP...

my humble .02,
 

Alain Briot

pro member
From your answer, can I take it that you are saying that another individual would normally notice immediately that the 9600 print is inferior?
Asher

Yes, the 9900 is superior to all previous Epson printers and the difference is visible and noticeable (sixth time).

That's it. This is the last time I answer this question, regardless of how it is worded. If you ask again, I won't answer it. It's pointless at this point.

Jack answered it well also. Thank you for that. And Andrew, sorry I called you "Rodney". My apologies. However, one does deserve a break though when asked to answer the same question so many times!

Alain
 
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