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  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

Competitiveness

Tom dinning

Registrant*
A friend of mine (I have a few, or should I say I have few) entered a completion. Beside the fact that she won some money (less than it cost her to enter) she sent me a note to tell me who the juror was.
I think I a was supposed to be impressed.
I wasn't.
Nevertheless, the incident raised a questioning or many in my mind.
What makes a person qualified to be a juror?
Is the biass of a juror considered in their selection?
In a competition, is it a necessity to have a winner?
What are the criteria upon which a juror will select a winner?
Are there guidelines for such things?
What is the point of competitiveness in photography!
 

Andy brown

Well-known member
Tom, I enjoy looking at the results of photography competitions as it is a great way to see a showcase of good work.
I always have a look at things like the spider awards, colour awards, International photographer of the year, ANZANG etc.

I entered one once, the colour awards, nature section, I didn't do any good and haven't had the courage to enter any others. Coincidentally and definitely not sour grapes (there were plenty of great entries) but the winner of that section that year was an abomination, cutting room floor job!

Why compete, it's in our nature....and you might win some coin. You should enter, there's the Heritage Bank comp closing in 10 days, nothing to enter, decent prizes, $1500 in a couple of categories. Nothing to lose.

I want to enter a few comps but keep opting not to because I don't have the images I think are worthy.
I will enter the ANZANG this year in the interpretive section. An image which I believe has some worth and half a chance, an image you've seen BTW (and Asher and Maris), haven't posted it on OPF and won't.
This particular image has political and social implications which I think give it some chance of air time. I desperately wanted this image to break through somehow and I have put it under the noses of three extremely highly regarded indigenous leaders with a view to some kind of launch or festive recognition but to no avail so I am taking the swish and hope route through the competition to try to get a reaction.

Wish me luck won't you.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Competitions can be fun. Folk stop what they're doing just to give attention to our work. If one wins it's a good feeling!

But it is a great way of assembling a huge collection of diverse photographic ideas.

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
After careful consideration, I have come to believe that any internet competition with a fee to enter is a scam.

And I am not sure that you really want answers to your questions, but I feel like trying, so...

What makes a person qualified to be a juror? -> Fame.
Is the biass of a juror considered in their selection? -> Not usually.
In a competition, is it a necessity to have a winner? -> Well, yes. That is the point.
What are the criteria upon which a juror will select a winner? -> I could tell you, but I would face cease and desist letters for defamation.
Are there guidelines for such things? -> Yes, but nobody follows them (see question above).
What is the point of competitiveness in photography! -> It looks good on one's résumé.
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
After careful consideration, I have come to believe that any internet competition with a fee to enter is a scam.

And I am not sure that you really want answers to your questions, but I feel like trying, so...

What makes a person qualified to be a juror? -> Fame.
Is the biass of a juror considered in their selection? -> Not usually.
In a competition, is it a necessity to have a winner? -> Well, yes. That is the point.
What are the criteria upon which a juror will select a winner? -> I could tell you, but I would face cease and desist letters for defamation.
Are there guidelines for such things? -> Yes, but nobody follows them (see question above).
What is the point of competitiveness in photography! -> It looks good on one's résumé.

You do give me a laugh during dark times, Jerome.
My problem with some of your answers is that they raise issues with my own approach and that which I recommend to my students.
Lets take Fame and Bias as a starter. I don't know any of these people. Am I mixing with the wrong crowd out here in Bogon Land? The closest thing we have to fame is the bloke who runs the local camera shop. He can't tell a photo from a piece of toilet paper but the locals use him as juror quite often. I did enter a competition as a bet just once. I sussed out the juror, discovered he likes colour, landscapes, fuzzy water, sunsets and cats. I gave him one of everything. I won 4 firsts and a third (the cat - I'm not big on cats). I was supposed to get some money but the gallery ran out of money before they paid me. But I did win my bet; a bottle of fine single malt whisky. Beats money hands down.

I do take notice of the competitions from time to time. The photo-journos attract me. As for some minor showings, I think first prize could be given to the designer of the 'This Way to Car-park' sign and the rest given a participation badge like they do at school.

I possibly have a gene missing - the one responsible for competitiveness. MAybe its a survival thing with me. Coming last continuously can be detrimental to ones mental health.

Mind you, sleeping with the juror might be an option.
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
Tom, I enjoy looking at the results of photography competitions as it is a great way to see a showcase of good work.
I always have a look at things like the spider awards, colour awards, International photographer of the year, ANZANG etc.

I entered one once, the colour awards, nature section, I didn't do any good and haven't had the courage to enter any others. Coincidentally and definitely not sour grapes (there were plenty of great entries) but the winner of that section that year was an abomination, cutting room floor job!

Why compete, it's in our nature....and you might win some coin. You should enter, there's the Heritage Bank comp closing in 10 days, nothing to enter, decent prizes, $1500 in a couple of categories. Nothing to lose.

I want to enter a few comps but keep opting not to because I don't have the images I think are worthy.
I will enter the ANZANG this year in the interpretive section. An image which I believe has some worth and half a chance, an image you've seen BTW (and Asher and Maris), haven't posted it on OPF and won't.
This particular image has political and social implications which I think give it some chance of air time. I desperately wanted this image to break through somehow and I have put it under the noses of three extremely highly regarded indigenous leaders with a view to some kind of launch or festive recognition but to no avail so I am taking the swish and hope route through the competition to try to get a reaction.

Wish me luck won't you.

Luck is what you need, if there is such a thing, Andy. I don't mean that THAT way. I mean you'd need something to double guess the criteria used. Oh, you know what I mean. My head is so full of meds at the moment I keep typing things twice. Is it too early for some grog?
 

Andy brown

Well-known member
Tom, hope you start feeling better soon.
It was timely for me that you posted this thread, it did jolt me enough to put some entries in the Heritage Bank comp.
Didn't cost me anything to enter which was nice and who knows, with luck I might have a chance. There was a limit of 4 entries so I put in 3 that I like and 1 that I thought might appeal to the judges (and I also like it).
It felt quite good to do it and it did make me take a more critical look at my post processing. I'm a lazy bastard by nature so it was good to push myself in that regard.
I have no (none, zero) expectations of winning any of the prizes but thought it was worth the couple of hours I spent on the entry.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained I believe.
Part of my motivation is that I want to buy a couple of serious items (good water housing and a nice 200 mm 2.8 bit of glass, something like that) and I can only justify the cost through money gained from photography so hope and wishful thinking are part of my M.O
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
You do give me a laugh during dark times, Jerome.

I did not know about the dark times, but giving you a laugh was expected, yes.


Lets take Fame and Bias as a starter. I don't know any of these people. Am I mixing with the wrong crowd out here in Bogon Land?

Is that some sort of trick question? You have been explaining to us that you mix with the wrong crowd for years.
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
Tom, hope you start feeling better soon.
It was timely for me that you posted this thread, it did jolt me enough to put some entries in the Heritage Bank comp.
Didn't cost me anything to enter which was nice and who knows, with luck I might have a chance. There was a limit of 4 entries so I put in 3 that I like and 1 that I thought might appeal to the judges (and I also like it).
It felt quite good to do it and it did make me take a more critical look at my post processing. I'm a lazy bastard by nature so it was good to push myself in that regard.
I have no (none, zero) expectations of winning any of the prizes but thought it was worth the couple of hours I spent on the entry.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained I believe.
Part of my motivation is that I want to buy a couple of serious items (good water housing and a nice 200 mm 2.8 bit of glass, something like that) and I can only justify the cost through money gained from photography so hope and wishful thinking are part of my M.O

Re you a Nikon user? I have a nice 135mm DC lens for sale. Cheap.

Any chance is a good one. It can't kill you then its OK.

I've decided Ill be better when I'm dead. I'll postpone that as long as I can and write a book about it.
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
Poor Tom, we buried 'im out back.
Took a while, would bloody keep still.

Christine: How are you feeling this morning?
Me: like soft shite under a warm sun.
Christine: while you're feeling sorry for yourself can you mop the floor, clean the blinds, wash the car, do the shopping and build me a block of flats by the sea.
Me: I did that yesterday. That's why I feel shite.
Christine: if you loved me you'd do it again.

Women! They sure know how to win an argument.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
No one is truly qualified to judge the art of another individual as the creator first has to satisfy him or herself, that's the extent of the initial "coming to being" of art. In a "juried art competition", none of that is tested, of course. For it to live beyond the creator of the work, it needs to get experienced and create interest, "draw" and appreciation in at least a few other people! The reviewing panel may simply not be interested in the the type of work before them. To have interest, one must at least be open to the style offered. That depend on previous availability and access to like work, as well as countless cultural tastes and sources of reference to "get it".

For art beyond the individual, an arc of exported artistic intent and then evoked interest and artistic appreciation must occur for the private work to get air in its nostrils and become "public art" we simply term "art". In this process, the actual original intent might not carry through completely and the observer might have feelings and ideas evoked, unimagined by the artist in making that work. However, that is the promise of art. It becomes a mobile living but personally malleable "universe" in which, paradoxically, the observers own ideas, references, esthetic taste, needs, fears and prejudices all come to play in how this now "playground" for imagination works on any given individual. I can the later star an "inaginorium" and each observer creates his or own with each work of art they observe!

So where does competitiveness come in? It can be an engine for an otherwise private interest to be exported to the public domain with a sense of doing one's best, anticipation and therefore satisfaction and reward when one's work is noticed, talked about and draws in more interest in a chain effect. This process encourages us to actually be more productive.

However, whether or not one is "selected" from among countless other competing photographers has only a limited bearing on the value of the art to a long term, time-tested, collectors or museum art market, which anyway is partly rigged and partly biased to narrow interests of "gatekeepers" with different motivations as to what they want to buy, sell, collect or preserve for future generations as "art".

For me, it's already wonderful to see my own photographs framed and mounted on my own walls. In an exhibition or gallery it's a fabulous feeling that one is sharing with the public and perhaps "arriving" somewhere relevant and special. But that is always partly self-delusional so I focus on enjoying looking at my own work and those of the photographers I like, every day. That I am certain is worth my while!l, as I am an expert on my own taste, LOL!

Asher
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Asher,

No one is truly qualified to judge the art of another individual as the creator first has to satisfy him or herself, that's the extent of the initial "coming to being" of art. In a "juried art competition", none of that is tested, of course. For it to live beyond the creator of the work, it needs to get experienced and create interest, "draw" and appreciation in at least a few other people! The reviewing panel may simply not be interested in the the type of work before them. To have interest, one must at least be open to the style offered. That depend on previous availability and access to like work, as well as countless cultural tastes and sources of reference to "get it".

For art beyond the individual, an arc of exported artistic intent and then evoked interest and artistic appreciation must occur for the private work to get air in its nostrils and become "public art" we simply term "art". In this process, the actual original intent might not carry through completely and the observer might have feelings and ideas evoked, unimagined by the artist in making that work. However, that is the promise of art. It becomes a mobile living but personally malleable "universe" in which, paradoxically, the observers own ideas, references, esthetic taste, needs, fears and prejudices all come to play in how this now "playground" for imagination works on any given individual. I can the later star an "inaginorium" and each observer creates his or own with each work of art they observe!

So where does competitiveness come in? It can be an engine for an otherwise private interest to be exported to the public domain with a sense of doing one's best, anticipation and therefore satisfaction and reward when one's work is noticed, talked about and draws in more interest in a chain effect. This process encourages us to actually be more productive.

However, whether or not one is "selected" from among countless other competing photographers has only a limited bearing on the value of the art to a long term, time-tested, collectors or museum art market, which anyway is partly rigged and partly biased to narrow interests of "gatekeepers" with different motivations as to what they want to buy, sell, collect or preserve for future generations as "art".

For me, it's already wonderful to see my own photographs framed and mounted on my own walls. In an exhibition or gallery it's a fabulous feeling that one is sharing with the public and perhaps "arriving" somewhere relevant and special. But that is always partly self-delusional so I focus on enjoying looking at my own work and those of the photographers I like, every day. That I am certain is worth my while!l, as I am an expert on my own taste, LOL!

All well said. Thank you.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
No one is truly qualified to judge the art of another individual as the creator first has to satisfy him or herself, that's the extent of the initial "coming to being" of art. In a "juried art competition", none of that is tested, of course. For it to live beyond the creator of the work, it needs to get experienced and create interest, "draw" and appreciation in at least a few other people! The reviewing panel may simply not be interested in the the type of work before them. To have interest, one must at least be open to the style offered. That depend on previous availability and access to like work, as well as countless cultural tastes and sources of reference to "get it".

For art beyond the individual, an arc of exported artistic intent and then evoked interest and artistic appreciation must occur for the private work to get air in its nostrils and become "public art" we simply term "art". In this process, the actual original intent might not carry through completely and the observer might have feelings and ideas evoked, unimagined by the artist in making that work. However, that is the promise of art. It becomes a mobile living but personally malleable "universe" in which, paradoxically, the observers own ideas, references, esthetic taste, needs, fears and prejudices all come to play in how this now "playground" for imagination works on any given individual. I can the later star an "inaginorium" and each observer creates his or own with each work of art they observe!

So where does competitiveness come in? It can be an engine for an otherwise private interest to be exported to the public domain with a sense of doing one's best, anticipation and therefore satisfaction and reward when one's work is noticed, talked about and draws in more interest in a chain effect. This process encourages us to actually be more productive.

However, whether or not one is "selected" from among countless other competing photographers has only a limited bearing on the value of the art to a long term, time-tested, collectors or museum art market, which anyway is partly rigged and partly biased to narrow interests of "gatekeepers" with different motivations as to what they want to buy, sell, collect or preserve for future generations as "art".

For me, it's already wonderful to see my own photographs framed and mounted on my own walls. In an exhibition or gallery it's a fabulous feeling that one is sharing with the public and perhaps "arriving" somewhere relevant and special. But that is always partly self-delusional so I focus on enjoying looking at my own work and those of the photographers I like, every day. That I am certain is worth my while!l, as I am an expert on my own taste, LOL!

Asher

Yeah, well said.

I'll read it later and give you a second opinion.
 

Andy brown

Well-known member
Did some one tell you your picture was shite?

No Tom, it actually turns out they liked it.
I was in the middle of saying I'd been selected for the exhibition section of The Heritage Bank awards.
I suddenly wasn't sure about the rules around talking about it and pulled my post.

They will print it and frame it, no cost to me. I'm not sure what happens after the exhibition is over. I don't think I'll get the print. I won't get to see it in situ. the exhibition is in Qld. too far for me.
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
No Tom, it actually turns out they liked it.
I was in the middle of saying I'd been selected for the exhibition section of The Heritage Bank awards.
I suddenly wasn't sure about the rules around talking about it and pulled my post.

They will print it and frame it, no cost to me. I'm not sure what happens after the exhibition is over. I don't think I'll get the print. I won't get to see it in situ. the exhibition is in Qld. too far for me.

I have seen other competitions where they print your images for you. I cant see myself letting others having control over this aspect of my photography.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, James,

I have seen other competitions where they print your images for you. I cant see myself letting others having control over this aspect of my photography.

I understand. But then if the competition was in National Geographic, or Popular Photography, or The Small Farmers Journal . . .

Best regards,

Doug
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
Hi, James,



I understand. But then if the competition was in National Geographic, or Popular Photography, or The Small Farmers Journal . . .

Best regards,

Doug

Hello Doug

I see your point. I guess that I was referring to exhibit's only.

Best, regards
James
 
A friend of mine (I have a few, or should I say I have few) entered a completion. Beside the fact that she won some money (less than it cost her to enter) she sent me a note to tell me who the juror was.
I think I a was supposed to be impressed.
I wasn't.
Nevertheless, the incident raised a questioning or many in my mind.
What makes a person qualified to be a juror?
Is the biass of a juror considered in their selection?
In a competition, is it a necessity to have a winner?
What are the criteria upon which a juror will select a winner?
Are there guidelines for such things?
What is the point of competitiveness in photography!

First of all, it is called competition, because people are competing to prove themselfs as the best among others. A competition wihtout a winner is just an exhibition. Also, it is true that sometimes people are participating in competitions just to test themselfs, not for the prizes, but why would someone join a paid competition when even if you win something, you can't cover your expenses. There are a lot of free competitions like those here https://www.voubs.com/online-contests/active , where you can see, how people react to your photographs. Two times i participated in such competitions, I admit it i did not win, but I recieve a positive feedback and this is what matters. It is true that in online competitions, both the jury and the users vote, but the jury has the final word.

If you open the competition rules to read them, you will find out the evaluation criterias. For example, in one of the competition i`ve participated in the main evaluation criteria was as follow 50% original composition, 30% technique, 10% creativity,10% Proper Description and Completeness;

If you read throught the photography forums, you will find a lot of usefull tips about how to participate in photo contets.

Cheers.
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
First of all, it is called competition, because people are competing to prove themselfs as the best among others. A competition wihtout a winner is just an exhibition. Also, it is true that sometimes people are participating in competitions just to test themselfs, not for the prizes, but why would someone join a paid competition when even if you win something, you can't cover your expenses. There are a lot of free competitions like those here https://www.voubs.com/online-contests/active , where you can see, how people react to your photographs. Two times i participated in such competitions, I admit it i did not win, but I recieve a positive feedback and this is what matters. It is true that in online competitions, both the jury and the users vote, but the jury has the final word.

If you open the competition rules to read them, you will find out the evaluation criterias. For example, in one of the competition i`ve participated in the main evaluation criteria was as follow 50% original composition, 30% technique, 10% creativity,10% Proper Description and Completeness;

If you read throught the photography forums, you will find a lot of usefull tips about how to participate in photo contets.

Cheers.

I wrote a year ago in this thread: "After careful consideration, I have come to believe that any internet competition with a fee to enter is a scam.". I forgot to qualify that sentence with the remark that a free competition can be a scam as well.
 
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