My World: Hiring Models, Artificial Shoots, Fake

Smiles..

Welcome to my world, for something different. Something genuine. Something beautiful.


My world.

fahim mohammed said:

Smiles..

Welcome to my world, for something different. Something genuine. Something beautiful.

My world.

Click to expand...

Fahim,

Yes, there's obvious beauty here. The role of the woman, confident, responsible, accountable, loving, loyal, tender and more. However, there's also poverty and lack of sanitation. One is our world of empathy and the other of shame. Our women have all that beauty but also running clean water, education and opportunity to rise to their full potential, even climb mountains!

Poverty is not in itself noble. That's an old-fashioned romantic and I'm sorry to say, colonial remnant of our culture. that chain in the background is a strong element that cannot be ignored. So this picture is powerful, loving but undeniably painful too.

Asher

As to hiring models being fake, one could ask whether taking pictures for free for our own entertainment is fully moral when we don't give the subjects a copy nor acknowledge their name or pay them! We pay for the camera, lenses and digital media and then for our computers, endless software and hard drives, so why not the people who have no choice but to do their laundry in the street? All these criticisms apply equally to myself as to you or anyone else.

I'd offer for consideration that hiring models is quite honest indeed. They get paid, their name is recorded and they get attribution and respect and have money to feed their family and educate them.

Asher

" Our women have all that beauty but also running clean water, education and opportunity to rise to their full potential, even climb mountains! "

These are our women Asher. I belong to their world. I am a part of their world. Not mine or theirs. Ours.

Whose women are you talking about? I can show you poverty there too.

I could show you squalor and destitution in any part of the world. Name a part of the world and you

shall find it there. Unless one cares not to see it. Or deny it.


My world, once gain. But just another part of my world. There are many parts of my world. Maybe you

see only one part in your world. Maybe it is out of choice, maybe out of necessity, or maybe because you

do not want to see other parts of the world.

I see all parts, because I want to see all parts. Because where you live too there is a lack of the same '

things ' you mention in my first image. My second image, again a part of my world, is better than most

if not all your part of the world. The only difference, I consider your part of the world mine too. I do not

subscribe to ' them' and ' us'. It is ' we'. My World.

edited: to add the ' other ' in a sentence. Corrected ' their' to ' there'.

Asher Kelman said:

As to hiring models being fake, one could ask whether taking pictures for free for our own entertainment is fully moral when we don't give the subjects a copy nor acknowledge their name or pay them! We pay for the camera, lenses and digital media and then for our computers, endless software and hard drives, so why not the people who have no choice but to do their laundry in the street? All these criticisms apply equally to myself as to you or anyone else.

I'd offer for consideration that hiring models is quite honest indeed. They get paid, their name is recorded and they get attribution and respect and have money to feed their family and educate them.

Asher

Click to expand...

Are you adressing this to me specifically or in general ?

And where did ' honesty ' jump in from?

p.s edited to add: I have not said hirig models is a fake or dishonest. Neither have I commented
on ' Models' themselves.

I have said in the Title; Fake Smiles. I stand by that. If a model poses in front of a camera, the
entire ' shoot ' is to give an impression that is fake, made-up, not happening in real life.

One has only to see a commerial or a magazine to know what I am referring to here.

In the parts of the world, I visit doing laundry in the open is normal. There is nothing right or wrong about it. It is the way it is. Due to circumstance or otherwise.

Speaking for myself, I have very very rarely photographed people without them not knowing. In almost all instances I have, where ever possible, offered to provide the subjects copies of the
photographs. But invariably they have seen their images as captured in my camera.

People want to pretend that the world is sanitized. Poverty intrudes uncomfortably during their
golf/bridge ( insert appropriately here ) seesions.
People prefer not to want to see death and dying in wars. Sanitize the world. It shall go away;
the poverty and the suffering. And of course the horrible scenes of conflict..man made or natural.

I have seen the luxurious happenings around famous Blvds. and I have also seen the other
side of life..not luxurious, sanitized, ' to be kept away from dining rooms ' side of life.

I do not earn a penny from my photographs ( nobody wants to buy them!! ). But I shall continue
to bring to the notice of those of us that prefer a ' sanitized ' world that there things that need
addressing. So long as one is able to bring what needs to be done in a respectful way ( repectful
to those that are being photographed and with their knowledge and not for personal gain ) I
shall continue to do so.

But hiring a model, to act a role as for example in a hunger situation, is fake. That is my opinion.

That the model, he/she, earns money for his/her part..good luck and more power to them.
Nothing dishonest about it. What they do with their money is their business. Feeding their family
or buying a camera. Their money and good luck to them.

Some people prefer others not to see the reality of the world. Their choice. They might have
gotten used to the perfect world. I do not see it that way.

I find it somewhat surrealistic to imply that washing laundry in the open implies poverty. It is not so long ago that my grandmother washed her laundry this way and she certainly did not consider herself poor.

This being said, my other grand mother, who raised four children, always considered the washing machine to be the biggest contribution to the cause of women.

But enough on laundry for today and excuse the digression.

fahim mohammed said:

Are you adressing this to me specifically or in general ?

And where did ' honesty ' jump in from?

p.s edited to add: I have not said hirig models is a fake or dishonest. Neither have I commented
on ' Models' themselves.

I have said in the Title; Fake Smiles.

Click to expand...

Hi Fahim,

Something may have gone wrong when you typed the title, it just says:
"My World: Hiring Models, Artificial Shoots, Fake"

The ", Fake" part suggests a judgement ..., and that may understandably set a different stage for further interpretation than "Fake Smiles" would.

Cheers,
Bart

Bart_van_der_Wolf said:

Hi Fahim,

Something may have gone wrong when you typed the title, it just says:
"My World: Hiring Models, Artificial Shoots, Fake"

The ", Fake" part suggests a judgement ..., and that may understandably set a different stage for further interpretation than "Fake Smiles" would.

Cheers,
Bart

Click to expand...

Hi Bart..

The Fake is continued ( as you correctly have surmised ) with the word ' smiles ' down below.

Thanks. I should have added the ' smiles ' along with ' fake'.

That was indeed my intention and writing ( but the two got separated ).

Kindest regards.

Asher Kelman said:

Fahim,

Yes, there's obvious beauty here. The role of the woman, confident, responsible, accountable, loving, loyal, tender and more. However, there's also poverty and lack of sanitation. One is our world of empathy and the other of shame. Our women have all that beauty but also running clean water, education and opportunity to rise to their full potential, even climb mountains!

Poverty is not in itself noble. That's an old-fashioned romantic and I'm sorry to say, colonial remnant of our culture. that chain in the background is a strong element that cannot be ignored. So this picture is powerful, loving but undeniably painful too.

Asher

Click to expand...

Fahim,

I wrote these words carefully. Your world is our world too. You just photograph and then label it as your world. It's not fake but it's both beautiful, showing the burden woman can take with grace but it's nothing for us who have so much more to be proud of.

As to climbing mountains I refer to my own wife and your wife in charitable endeavers and to your wife in actually climbing physical mountains.

Washing laundry in the gutter is not a wonderful sight to me. The woman is, but the circumstance is not. She's always noble and respected but the distribution of resources is not. It's not just and I find it over-romantic to imagine she is happier than putting clothes in a washing machine at home, in private, with ample space.

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

I find it over-romantic to imagine she is happier than putting clothes in a washing machine at home, in private, with ample space.

Click to expand...

For the record: I did not say that.

Jerome is absolutely correct. The picture I posted signifies neither poverty nor suffering. It is a part of the

daily life of a family living well ( by their standards; by many of ours too I might add ), and Ayesha was

interested as both our female parents used to wash our laundries by hand.


Asher has raised a specific question regarding the morality of people like me taking photos..you can read

it in his own words further up in this thread. With specific regard to this I shall say this.

1. I have not even posted a single photo I have taken of poverty, death and destruction.
I realize it might be too ' disturbing ' for our genteel audiences. Believe me I have too too many.

2. I took up photography as a hobby. Later on in my life another dimension crept in without me
actively pursuing it. What if I can use my photography to inform others of the less fortunate amongst
us. because I believe they are a part of our world.

The moral right is that of being a human being. if I can inform and through that be able to help to
alleviate the sufferings of those that are less fortunate than us..why not.

But never at their expense. Never.

Seeing the less fortunate reminds me of myself. When there was nobody to tell my story. I shall
continue to tell theirs. With respect and humility.

Kevin Carter..Some might know of him. he is dead. Did he have a signed model release? Did he need
a signed model release?

He tried to tell a story. By what moral right? By the right of being born a human.


Maybe it desensitized and de-sanitized some people. For a little while, at least. Maybe long enough for some to give to save just one more life.

Worth it? You all be the judge.

Fahim,

For some reason your statements are particularly scathing today. What's happened?

fahim mohammed said:

I could show you squalor and destitution in any part of the world. Name a part of the world and you

shall find it there. Unless one cares not to see it. Or deny it.

Click to expand...

By now, Fahim, you surely must know, that everyone here in OPF pretty well share the same views on social justice. So you're who is this invective directed against?

fahim mohammed said:

Maybe you see only one part in your world. Maybe it is out of choice, maybe out of necessity, or maybe because you do not want to see other parts of the world.

Click to expand...

That's preposterous! How come you would assign such a motivation to me. I'm disappointed you would think that of me.

Asher

Jerome Marot said:

I find it somewhat surrealistic to imply that washing laundry in the open implies poverty. It is not so long ago that my grandmother washed her laundry this way and she certainly did not consider herself poor.

This being said, my other grand mother, who raised four children, always considered the washing machine to be the biggest contribution to the cause of women.

But enough on laundry for today and excuse the digression.

Click to expand...

Jerome,

That was then and this is now. Having no running water often means no toilets either. This translates to disease, higher infant mortality and lower life expectancy. In most countries there's enough wealth today that this condition is shameful to the rest of society. Fahim's picture is wonderful and so is the lady. I'd treasure that photograph. However, the title, My world: Hiring models, Artificlal Shoots, Fake" while casting aspersions on "staged scenes", ignores the tragedy inherent in this picture: diminished resources for basic sanitation and realizing full potential as more fortunate parts of their society. If the picture is presented as about the nobility of the woman, it cannot be criticized.

Asher

Indeed the "toilets" were at the end of the garden.

It was certainly not as comfortable as today.

Did that translate to lower hygiene, higher disease and lower life expectancy? Not as much as you may think.

Instead of discussing toilets, I would rather go back to the laundry. I am certainly not an authority on the subject, but I had the occasion to use a French "lavoir" (public washing place). It is more ingenious than a casual glance would let you believe. A washing machine is certainly less work, but the old solutions were not as inconvenient as one may think and were more adapted to the realities of the times. They may even be better adapted to the realities of many present time countries.

Jerome Marot said:

Indeed the "toilets" were at the end of the garden.

It was certainly not as comfortable as today.

Did that translate to lower hygiene, higher disease and lower life expectancy? Not as much as you may think.

Instead of discussing toilets, I would rather go back to the laundry. I am certainly not an authority on the subject, but I had the occasion to use a French "lavoir" (public washing place). It is more ingenious than a casual glance would let you believe. A washing machine is certainly less work, but the old solutions were not as inconvenient as one may think and were more adapted to the realities of the times. They may even be better adapted to the realities of many present time countries.

Click to expand...

Jerome, enjoyed that sentence.

Regards.

Asher Kelman said:

Fahim,

For some reason your statements are particularly scathing today. What's happened?



By now, Fahim, you surely must know, that everyone here in OPF pretty well share the same views on social justice. So you're who is this invective directed against?




That's preposterous! How come you would assign such a motivation to me. I'm disappointed you would think that of me.

Asher

Click to expand...

Asher is seeing red today. ( See his post above ). I thought I would go with blue and white.

White would demand much work from me. Not worth the bother.

Strong words Asher?

Might I ask, " what's up Doc ? "

Up Yours .

Oy gevalt or something to that effect would ensue from me

Let me clear up a misunderstanding. I started a thread, inadvertently screwed up the title,

and based on that error things were posted that might give an erroneous impression to our

readership.

During the time I have been a forum member here, I have known Asher to be courteous and

tolerant person. Idiosynchrocy aside, he has been nothing but civil towards me; in public and

private ( PMs..nowhere else!!).

I sincerely believe him to have the warmest and most sympathetic understanding and feelings

towards those that are less fortunate than him ( one could argue most of us here are, but that is OT ).

If my post/s or words have conveyed any other impression, I apologize for that. That neither was

nor shall be my intention/s.

Let's be clear on this; I have not been asked to write this. I feel I must.

If some of you thought, Asher would get rid of me..Think again. Worst nigtmares don't go away

easy. He could and can. To which I would respond in kind..Up Yours.

Of course you, my good friends, would miss my dear company and wisdom. But then again

you would ( and most likely will ) shake your heads and say.." Screw you a**hole".

But seriously folk, I have the utmost respect for Asher. But he has to improve his English some.

fahim mohammed said:

Asher is seeing red today. ( But he has to improve his English some...............................

Click to expand...

Thanks Fahim for your kind words!


So "Asher is seeing red today"

Improve his English you say,

But red can be seen in other ways

Mario saw red, of passion and of love
The others saw it as the blood of brave men,

I see the red of traffic lights

Slowing us down.

So my English is still good for today.

To show a word at play!


Asher

Oh Asher, If it only be true

What you say!!

Red, blue... I'll say:

I see trees so green, red roses too
I see them bloom for me and you.
And I think to myself what a wonderful world.

I see skies so blue and clouds so white.
The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night.
And I think to myself what a wonderful world.

The colors of the rainbow so pretty in the sky
are also on the faces of people going by.

I see friends shaking hands saying how do you do.
They're really saying I love you.
I hear babies crying, I watch them grow.
They'll learn much more than I'll ever know.

And I think to myself what a wonderful world.

You tube.

Yes Jerome. A lovely song.

A wonderful man. Louis.

Asher Kelman said:

Having no running water

Click to expand...

As to running water, maybe that picture is appropriate:

Jerome Marot said:

As to running water, maybe that picture is appropriate:

​

Click to expand...

Jerome,

It's interesting. There seems to be some valve, maybe a backflow prevention device or a pressure reducer inserted. Or else, perhaps these are water meters! So there must have been some issue down stream. Where was this taken?

Asher

These are water meters, you can actually see the figures on the bottom red one.

The picture is geotagged or you can click on it.