D800 - overspecified? D600 - just right?

I have a D300 which is a great camera but wanted for some time to have a FF Nikon and to use difefrent lenses and get the best out of them. But I felt that the D3/4 etc is just too big and bulky. I felt the D700 was maybe a little dated and maybe superseded by recent Canons, so wondered what would come from Nikon next.

At first I thought the D800 sounded awesome, but in reality who needs such resolution in a DSLR? Well I know I don't based upon how I use a camera at any rate, and I played with it and felt it was cool but a little noisy...now if it had 'pixel binning' as Asher said then it would be a dream come true, maybe...hmmm what to do?

Now they have just announced the D600 which on paper sounds like everything I have been hoping for in a DSLR....Anyone got any opinions on this? It sounds like they might have hit the sweet spot and delivered the product the market keeps asking for instead of one they want to foist upon us....just my two cents

Can't wait to see if it satisfies my cravings and stops my Canon pixel envy

Nigel Allan said:

At first I thought the D800 sounded awesome, but in reality who needs such resolution in a DSLR? Well I know I don't based upon how I use a camera at any rate, and I played with it and felt it was cool but a little noisy...now if it had 'pixel binning' as Asher said then it would be a dream come true, maybe...hmmm what to do?

Now they have just announced the D600 which on paper sounds like everything I have been hoping for in a DSLR....Anyone got any opinions on this? It sounds like they might have hit the sweet spot and delivered the product the market keeps asking for instead of one they want to foist upon us....just my two cents

Can't wait to see if it satisfies my cravings and stops my Canon pixel envy

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Hello Nigel,

Whenever I buy a computer or camera, then several months later it's already out if date. Now I simply ask myself what I am trying to do. with that guide, all my digicams work to do almost everything I need. for the rest, my Canon 5D or 5DII is adequate. For fast focus, the 1DII. For high resolution MF Bronica or 8x10.

Really one does not need these new cameras.

Asher

The D600 is cheaper and lighter. The D800 has a better AF. That is about it, the rest is not really relevant for photographic uses.

Nigel,

Let me add that if I was going to buy a new camera to replace my Canon 5DII, I might really consider the D800 with the 14-24 lens as that combination is very special for detail rich landscape and groups of people. nothing could be better for that amount of money!

Asher

I reckon the Nikon D800 will be purchased by many people who want to cancel the lingering anxiety about whether their camera is good enough. And I expect that many D800 owners will actually go on to make better pictures.

Years ago when I worked in a shop and sold Leicas I saw a parallel phenomenon. It even applied to Leica users who merely upgraded to a new model. The difference was psychological rather than technical. The new owner of a Leica M5 (that's what I sold) is saying to themselves "I've just dropped 7 large on a camera and lens and I'm going to be sloppy about focus and exposure? No way! I cheat myself if I don't try harder considering all the money I've just spent."

I have them all since \i can't throw anything away. The D300 is my glove box camera and has a 24-70 glued onto it. The D700, on its way back from the repairers after a meeting with gravity and a slab of concrete, is the travel camera with a 17-35 and 24-120 in tow, the D800 is a gift to myself because i can. I love it for studio stuff with the 85mm attached. Finally the D3s which is the workhorse for out in the street, scrambling about and other rough stuff usually with a 24 or 35 attached. As for the D600, I might get one to replace the D300 one day when it dies which doesn't look like its going to happen soon.
I feel right at home with them all. Which one would I do without; none, or choose above the rest, probably the D700 for its versitility or maybe the D300 as a reliable friend or the ..... oh bugger! If the house burns down I'll grab them all.

As a Canon user, when the D700 came out, I thought of switching over since it was such a major technical advance to that price range offering. Nikon deserves many medals for kicking Canon in the arse! That's the only way Canon dishes out their superior technology, when they have to.

The D800 and D600 pair will no doubt push Canon to make available matching advances. Thanks Nikon!

Until then, (a great Canon ultra wide angle zoom and a 50 MP high dynamic range camera, I still have a lot of work to do with my 5DII and faith in my film cameras, so much still to master! In fact I may start to shrink my possessions! I have too many similar cameras and it's really a waste of resources!

Asher

I think the only limitations of the D600 may be the 1/4000 shutterspeed. And that is only if one needs 1/8000. At the same time it dips to ISO 100 so 1/8000 might not be needed.


I'm still waiting for Nikon to have their own radio trigger system built into their cameras and flashes.

The 1/200th flash-sync and 2,016 matrix metering are other "features" of the D600 that have some folks scratching their heads. The D800 synchs up to 1/320th, has 51-point AF (versus 39 in the D600/D7000), maxes out at 1/8000th, and uses a much more advanced metering system.

If the D600 manages to ship without the array of focus issues that have been reported in the D800/E then, I'll consider it an alternative. I could then spend the money saved on some Zeiss glass.

As for the new Canon 6D, it has the same 1/4000th shutter max, a further reduced synch speed of 1/180th, and a simpler AF arrangement with a single cross-focus point, albeit rated at -3ev.

George Holroyd said:

The 1/200th flash-sync and 2,016 matrix metering are other "features" of the D600 that have some folks scratching their heads. The D800 synchs up to 1/320th, has 51-point AF (versus 39 in the D600/D7000), maxes out at 1/8000th, and uses a much more advanced metering system.

If the D600 manages to ship without the array of focus issues that have been reported in the D800/E then, I'll consider it an alternative. I could then spend the money saved on some Zeiss glass.

As for the new Canon 6D, it has the same 1/4000th shutter max, a further reduced synch speed of 1/180th, and a simpler AF arrangement with a single cross-focus point, albeit rated at -3ev.

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George,

I wish some bright programmers would provide us a jailbreak for these purposely crippled new Nikon and Canon cameras as in Magic Lantern, but to address more features needed by still photographers. It is likely that a small firmware add on module loaded in the SD card would open up not only 1/8000 second, (perhaps also flash synch) but also host of other features, like extended bracketing and time controlled exposures as in Canon CHDK. The marketing ploy of crippling lesser models of cameras needs to be overcome!

Asher

I have been a Nikon guy since...well long enough. The D800/E does require more computing hp. But if one crops heavily, the D800/E might come in handy.

For myself, weight is nowadays the determining factor ( after basic simplicity ) and the D600 does seem
very appealing if I want to continue to use my dslr (and heavy ) lenses.

I do not use zooms though, and a 35/50/85-100mm or just one of them usually suffices for me for a day
of shooting. And I do not print huge.

Good luck.

The idea that the D600 is simply a full-frame D7000 has already become common in the online press. If that were true then, the 600 would have the same shutter and synch speed, as mentioned above. The new camera is also slightly larger in each dimension and correspondingly heavier, presumably to accommodate full-frame parts.

George Holroyd said:

The idea that the D600 is simply a full-frame D7000 has already become common in the online press. If that were true then, the 600 would have the same shutter and synch speed, as mentioned above. The new camera is also slightly larger in each dimension and correspondingly heavier, presumably to accommodate full-frame parts.

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Well George, the D7000 is one of the finest cameras made. It really pushed standards higher than we expected of the 35mm DSLR at a more reasonable price. (Also it made Canon react, and since I have Canon lenses, I appreciate that). So the D7000 is a good product to have in the D600's blood. Marketers do like to provide lineage in the presentation of their products, even if it's a stretch.

I would have already switched based on the D7000 but loyalty is based a lot on what one already owns!

Asher

Interviewed by DPReview, Dirk Jasper, the European rep for Nikon disclosed the following on the D600:

"We are really concentrating on delivering something for the photo enthusiast - so for example it was important to include a 100% viewfinder, a good AF system with enough cross-type AF points, the ability to shoot with teleconverters and still focus at F8, a built-in flash… also, you can use the D600's flash as a commander in Nikon's Creative Lighting System. That is we've been asked for by our customers. And our 'want to be' customers." Source

So this camera will be far better for wild life shooters needed stacked multipliers, (x2 and x1.4) whereas the new Canon 1DX fails in this regard unless an off brand multiplayer is used.

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

Well George, the D7000 is one of the finest cameras made. It really pushed standards higher than we expected of the 35mm DSLR at a more reasonable price. (Also it made Canon react, and since I have Canon lenses, I appreciate that). So the D7000 is a good product to have in the D600's blood. Marketers do like to provide lineage in the presentation of their products, even if it's a stretch.

I would have already switched based on the D7000 but loyalty is based a lot on what one already owns!

Asher

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I use both D800 & D800E & D7000, ...also, I have tried all Nikon FF bodies of previous and current generation extensively. The D800 is functioning better than the D600, it focuses better too... but there is very little between them as far as IQ is concerned, surely I would prefer the D600 sensor in the D800 body, but I would prefer the D4 sensor even more so.... The D800E, I like it the way it is....

Buy the D600 then, everyone Nikon has the D400 ready, but are apparently waiting on having sold more of their D600s before they'll release the D400..... That said: IMHO, in the real world (read: Photographers vs pixel-peepers) the D600 is as good/better than the D800 anyway. I could comment further, but, valid as the original question may be for a purchasing decision, am a bit tired of topics such as this and shall thus refrain..... No "Delete" button here, darn!

Carsten Wolff said:

Nikon has the D400 ready, but are apparently waiting on having sold more of their D600s before they'll release the D400.....

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Great and reliable information.... Thanks, Carsten. How did you find out?

I love mine. It reminds me of my old Mamiya 645 in image quality. I have small complaints: the battery and flash card doors are inferior to m D300's. Given the quality of the camera, I'm surprised Nikon would let that happen. The battery doors have a reputation for falling off.

But these are minor grumblings. Takes great photos and is surprisingly light.

Theodoros Fotometria said:

Great and reliable information.... Thanks, Carsten. How did you find out?

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Meeting at a Nikon workshop with a good amount of sake and Glenfiddich; alas, I thought that was a pretty open secret anyway.....

Carsten Wolff said:

Meeting at a Nikon workshop with a good amount of sake and Glenfiddich; alas, I thought that was a pretty open secret anyway.....

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Don't expect any D400 before D610 (the replacement of D600) appears (or is announced) Carsten... and there is sometime before that happens... You see, IMO, D600 is D400 but at D6xx price... don't forget the launch price of the camera and the largest price reduction in camera history that followed that early, don't forget that D600 is only 6-7 months old...

Theodoros Fotometria said:

I use both D800 & D800E & D7000, ...also, I have tried all Nikon FF bodies of previous and current generation extensively. The D800 is functioning better than the D600, it focuses better too... but there is very little between them as far as IQ is concerned, surely I would prefer the D600 sensor in the D800 body, but I would prefer the D4 sensor even more so.... The D800E, I like it the way it is....

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Theodorus,

How does the Nikon D800 and D800E compare with MF digital 40MP for shooting posed models/subjects either available light or with audio flash? What do you notice besides the access to more telephoto lenses and very high ISO?

Asher

Asher Kelman said:

Theodorus,

How does the Nikon D800 and D800E compare with MF digital 40MP for shooting posed models/subjects either available light or with audio flash? What do you notice besides the access to more telephoto lenses and very high ISO?

Asher

Click to expand...

Hi Asher..., the D800 is clearly a (very good) DSLR, no comparison to an MFDB whatsoever though, it lacks the color accuracy or the feeling even from the medium (2005) of the last decade's 22mpx (36x48 and above) backs, either if they bear the Kodak or the Dalsa sensor (I had both)... the most obvious difference is in micro contrast, of course this applies for 50-100 ISO only (perhaps 200iso with some Kodak sensor backs), thereafter the backs are useless... The D800E adds micro contrast to the equation and if its raws are developed with C1P1, it is closer to an MFDB than to a DSLR... its a pain in color balance though if you are used to an MFDB, ....but if you spend (lots of) time with it, you can (just) work around the issue. Clearly the D800E is the best DSLR around for IQ, I see nothing between D800 and D600 or D4 in equal size prints though... In fact out of the three, I would rate D4 as 1, d600 as 2 and D800 as 3 but they are very (very very) close and all damn good for DSLRs especially if DR is to be considered with respect to competition... There is DR difference with the 22 MFDBs too... (in favor of the MFDB!!!), by this, I don't mean that the 2005 22mpx MFDBs record more DR (they don't), ...they record more usable DR though, the rest (and more extra) that the D800 records, is only of concern to people that like their pictures unnatural, or to the many pixel peepers around that never print an image... (you know what I mean). Out of 40mpx backs, I've only tried P45+ on Contax and Mamiya, Sinar 75H on P3 and higher up P65+ on Mamyia twice (I haven't finished the deal for the Sinar 75 I'm after yet, but I'm close...), The P45+ is basically a P25+ with more resolution, a little more microcontrast and (surprisingly) even better ISO performance... both P25+ and P45+ have (share) very pleasing color, but not as accurate as even the 22mpx Dalsa sensor on a Sinarback... the 75H (in single shot) had the best color I've seen in a single shot back ever (that's why I am after the 75emotion), while the P65+ has (obviously) massive resolution but color (although very close) wasn't up to the 75H... By color, I mainly mean skin tones of both Caucasians or colored people, but also, the color sense that one who prints for 30 years has developed...
My advise is that if you consider D800, go for the "E"..., but keep your MFDB! ...you'll miss it if you let it go, (it would be different if you didn't have the experience at all... - its a matter of sense that exists and is real not of comparisons) ....If you are to abandon one of your backs though, I would keep the lower res one and add a multishot one (preferably one that can do 16x...) instead of the high res. one... lf you only have had shot "the leaves" with one of these.... (LOL!!! - I am mean sometimes ...eh?)

What is that saying about the best camera is the one you have at the time? All this comparison stuff is making my head spin and giving me an anxiety attack. HAve I purchased the wrong camera again? Should I have bought the one with the E on it? Is my number bigger than his/hers? Endless regret, constant anxiety. I must have the complete set. All the D's. Then I can take a good picture. Yeah, Nikon. Bring on the next model. My credit card awaits.

Tom dinning said:

What is that saying about the best camera is the one you have at the time? All this comparison stuff is making my head spin and giving me an anxiety attack. HAve I purchased the wrong camera again? Should I have bought the one with the E on it? Is my number bigger than his/hers? Endless regret, constant anxiety. I must have the complete set. All the D's. Then I can take a good picture. Yeah, Nikon. Bring on the next model. My credit card awaits.

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Tom,

The irony is that you might even mortgage you car and house for the new one!

Asher

So many excellent consumers...so many crappy photographers

Carsten, without millions of crappy photographers, there would be not enough profit for the camera companies to stay in business! So every day, when you give thanks for the sunshine, the pulse beating still inside you, also make sure to give a nod of gratitude to really awful photographers who actually help to make the camera in your hand possible!

Aside that, we've more than a few accomplished photographers whose work does justify the best cameras, although they never needed anything that good to get exceptional pictures.

Let me give just one example from folk in this thread. Tom Dinning's work is quite interesting and informed by a fresh and non-formulated approach to photography. One gets the feeling that he has enjoyed taking every single picture for his own pleasure or whim. The pictures have really impressed me. He has a PDF book, "Learning to See" with a selection of some of his work and besides the inevitable inward-looking Aussie humor, it's arguably a rather valuable contribution to our record of a few lives in the turn of the 20th Century in Australia. Because it's not created for anything but recording in an appealing way what was interesting at that moment, we see through his eyes a small ordinary but clear window into life around one man. But he does have a neat, clean, intelligent and therefore dangerous wife!

So any "latest weighty" camera he gets, besides giving him bragging rights, will be used to defend himself against his strict wife's discipline. She'll still slap him around, but at least he'll get in the first whack at her!

Asher

The Free book is not where I last saw it linked! However the "Conclusion" is found here and his other blog, Notes From The Camera will allow you to get some idea of the worth of sending him a new Nikon camera.

You say the nicest things, Asher. I might send you a Xmas card next year. Generic, of course, and possibly in August.
I rather like the idea of everyone having a camera they can afford - or not. Not only has it given me an income for 50 years, it has given me great pleasure to see how people record their lives.
I have seen many 'great' photographs in my life. But nothing compares to Christine sitting beside her son on his 40th birthday and sharing their past through faded photos of camping trips, snapshots with the pets, the first step or an ancestor.
Of all the photographs ever taken, those shot by a 'crappy' photographer with an over-rated camera are the ones I value the most.
I have a feeling the toys I own are for another reason. Possibly, as you say, Asher, to look good.
I don't ever think I could be an artist. I just don't care enough about that level of intensity.
I have no idea what happened to that link. I'll investigate it for you and see if I can re-establish it.
Bless you.

I have gone for the D800 instead of the D600 eventually, because of a couple of things such as the sturdier/metal body, faster/better AF, more exposure bracketing options and last, but not least, more resolution. Many people say that you don't need so much resolution for "normal" sized prints. What they may not realize is that it makes among other things better micro-contrast, better noise reduction and better sharpening possible in the hands of a techno-head like myself with the right tools. This also resulted in going for the D800 without the E. I can use tools such as deconvolution capture sharpening to achieve the same results without the extra cost and the possible issues with moire, aliasing, etc. BTW, the camera/lens combination resolves up to the Nyquist limit (see Bart's resolution target topic) anyway.

And boy, am I glad that I had the sturdier body when I have dropped the camera on a concrete floor a few weeks ago! Just two small scratches and a sheared lens hood was all the damage incurred. But my heart has skipped a few beats nevertheless.

Tom dinning said:

...I rather like the idea of everyone having a camera they can afford - or not. Not only has it given me an income for 50 years, it has given me great pleasure to see how people record their lives.
I have seen many 'great' photographs in my life. But nothing compares to Christine sitting beside her son on his 40th birthday and sharing their past through faded photos of camping trips, snapshots with the pets, the first step or an ancestor.
Of all the photographs ever taken, those shot by a 'crappy' photographer with an over-rated camera are the ones I value the most..

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How true are these words Tom!

In another forum to which I belong, I am known as the one who cannot understand that having a new cam has nothing to do with improving one's photography....just indulging in toy collections.

I notice the frenzy as the launch date for a new cam approaches. One can almost imagine that an orgasm might be near. I move out of the way.....fast.

The whole act was so short lived. Well there shall be another time.

The next Photokina. Unless one can sustain multiple orgasms in one sitting ( or standing or whatever or however ).

Me, I am currently out of the game...for health reasons.

p.s. I almost forgot to add that I did intimate that those who keep on changing cameras might be suffering from an inadequacy syndrome. Regards sex of course. That they should work on premature ejaculation and ways to control it.
Regarding photography, all of us are the masters of light.