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Eos 1d4 replaced by 1dx, no 1ds3 replacement yet?

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I think this is a well supported (technically) article... note that the comparison is on resolution only... no DR, or color depth or other aspect of photography, which surely doesn't benefit from smaller pixels... http://nerdycamerablog.blogspot.gr/2012/09/resolution-comparison-nikon-d800-vs.html Note that the result is that "there cannot be more benefit from resolution increase (D800 - 36mp is the limit for FF) on current imaging areas, unless there will be a further improvement in lens resolution from the best of current lenses". The article also concludes that Sinar 75 MFDB (33 mp) has (a little) more resolution than D800....

The Star Pattern shows that only at the limits of pixel resolution does the image get degraded.

Asher
 
The Star Pattern shows that only at the limits of pixel resolution does the image get degraded.

Hi Asher,

That's correct. My resolution tests of D800 and D800E files, and those made by others using my test target show that the resolution is mostly limited by the sampling density, not so much by the lens (assuming a decent lens). In fact, a higher resolution sensor will pull more resolution, and modulation(!), out of a given lens, due to how their combined MTF responses add to a higher modulation at the highest spatial frequencies.

Here's an example of the effect of a higher sampling density, both systems have the same modulation at their Nyquist frequency:
ImprovedMTF.png

The star-target test shows that resolution usually approaches the Nyquist frequency limit to within a few percent, sometimes even all the way to Nyquist. That's the physical limit that the sensor imposes, the lens has some more resolution to spare. Of course, a better lens will raise the MTF response over the entire range, and have better corner performance, but the sensor resolution sets a physical limit for the system performance.

The reason that in the linked article the Sinar Hy6 pulled up alongside the D800 with a slightly higher output resolution potential is solely due to the larger sensor size which means it needs less magnification to reach a given output size, and thus maintains its (lower) on sensor resolution better.

But let's try and stay on the topic of a 1Ds3 replacement as much as possible, and not get into other brand comparisons if possible.

Cheers,
Bart
 

Cem_Usakligil

Well-known member
...That's correct. My resolution tests of D800 and D800E files, and those made by others using my test target show that the resolution is mostly limited by the sampling density, not so much by the lens (assuming a decent lens). In fact, a higher resolution sensor will pull more resolution out of a given lens, due to how their combined MTF responses add to a higher modulation at the highest spatial frequencies.
...
The star-target test shows that resolution usually approaches the Nyquist frequency limit to within a few percent, sometimes even all the way to Nyquist. That's the physical limit that the sensor imposes, the lens has some more resolution to spare. Of course, a better lens will raise the MTF response over the entire range, and have better corner performance, but the sensor resolution sets a physical limit for the system performance.
...
I have used Bart's resolution target with my D800 and the 24-70 f2.8 lens combo and I fully agree with his conclusions. The lens is not the limiting factor for the resolution.
 
I have used Bart's resolution target with my D800 and the 24-70 f2.8 lens combo and I fully agree with his conclusions. The lens is not the limiting factor for the resolution.
But the sensor is.... for instance, an 80mpx MFDB shot in single shot, has less than a third the resolution that a multishot MFDB of the same pixel count bares... Let alone color accuracy and the more than 2 stops (!!!) of DR....
 
But the sensor is....

Hi Theodoros,

That's exactly what Cem said, as do I. We agree on that.

for instance, an 80mpx MFDB shot in single shot, has less than a third the resolution that a multishot MFDB of the same pixel count bares...

Which again proves that the number of sensors/samples taken is what really determines the resolution (assuming a decent lens is used).

Let alone color accuracy and the more than 2 stops (!!!) of DR....

The color resolution is indeed higher with a multistep sensor assembly, but I doubt Canon will come out with that feature in a new model. The improved DR is questionable, most Medium Format manufacturers quote the bit depth of their AD converter circuits, but that doesn't necessarily translate into actual DR.

Cheers,
Bart
 
Hi Theodoros,

That's exactly what Cem said, as do I. We agree on that.



Which again proves that the number of sensors/samples taken is what really determines the resolution (assuming a decent lens is used).



The color resolution is indeed higher with a multistep sensor assembly, but I doubt Canon will come out with that feature in a new model. The improved DR is questionable, most Medium Format manufacturers quote the bit depth of their AD converter circuits, but that doesn't necessarily translate into actual DR.

Cheers,
Bart
Hi Bart,
1. That is not exactly what Cem (or you) said... Cem implemented that lens resolution is irrelevant to the sensor's one... and that -to my understanding of the implementation- "every lens advances from higher resolution sensors" which in my experience is far from truth (it's the opposite in reality) and that many sites (discussions) have claimed...
2.No.. that's wrong (it's the opposite actually)! ...because in 16X multishot, lens only "sucks" and delivers 22mpx... while sensor records REAL 88mpx out of it... after 16 shots off course! ...which proves that 80mpx sensor (no matter how good the lens is), cannot record 80mpx of resolution! (it can only record far, too far less from it actually...)
3. MF DR has nothing to do with multishot DR, because MF in single shot is still dependable of Bayer pattern... MultiShot DR is more than two stops higher than the same sensor's DR when in single-shot...
 
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