"What Makes your Photographs So Expensive?"

This question was raised by Alain at his website

http://www.beautiful-landscape.com/

and referenced here

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4290#post4290

Let me admit to something. I bookmark photographer's who sell work I like: to revisit for the art and to sneak a look at price structure.

I visit many many photography galleries and so I have an overall impression.

The basic worth of a picture is determnined by three facors principally:

1. How attractive the picture is to be hung in a home or office building.

2. How complete and professional does it look.

3. Fame and marketability of the artist.

All of these factors are informed by class, culture and training of the prospective buyers.

The last factor, fame and marketability, are a side to photography that most often requires someone expert in creating a market. Stocks, cornflakes and cars are all marketed with a plan to particular sections of the population.

An artist that lacks market-making skills is at a disadvantage and likely cannot command higher prices. I was very surpised at the low prices of Guy's work. A great bargain IMHO.

Many unpublished photographers produce $80 pictures that are wonderful, technically excellent but not a "commercial" success. They may indeed be as "good" as pictures selling for $5,000 in posh galleries.

So "Why are your pictures so expensive?" The answer is that Alain has crafted a reputation that defines him as an artist worthy of dishing out real money for. This didn't come "out of the blue". He is in his world, his particular audience, valued. Maybe one day these prints might increase in value. However, that requires a second stage of market-making by gallery owners who define and control markets like lions guarding their cubs.

An artist needs to have a unique approach and signature style that a gallery is willing to invest space, time and money in.

For any given photograph, the public expects to pay more more for a picture that appears engaging, technically impressive and larger.

Collectors are more selective, looking for many more facets of a picture.

Essentially, at the point of market success, a picture becomes currency, like a classic Rolex or diamond ring.

If an artist charges less than the market will support, he's generous, to say the least!

If the artist charges too much, he'll just have to settle for storing the pictures somewhere safe.

Asher

Since you mentioned Alain and myself and the discrepancy in pricing, I would like to add a few more factors to direct the conversation.

For starters, the value of art is not measured in universal terms or metrics. You can't compare two works from different sources by the pound or by the inch or any other subjective factor. It is one of those catch-22 situations where the price of an item should be set to what the market is willing to pay for it.

With that in mind, we each price our work differently and take different factors into account. Alain describes himself as an "Artist in Business" - as such he had achieved what many of us only dare dream - he makes a living and sustains himself and his family off his art.

For better or worse, I don't fall into the same category. I'm more of a "Photographer on a Mission". My main income comes from other sources and my photography serves a number of purposes - from the sheer personal joy of creation, to sharing of vision, places, sights, and ideas with others. As such I price my work such that anyone who enjoys it will probalby be able to afford it in some form (i.e. print size). This is also the reason I personally do not believe in edition limits.

On the other hand I am vehemently opposed to under-selling or giving away of art. In my mind this does a disservice to the art community as a whole and to the general perception of value and appreciation of the effort and skill that goes into our product.

Guy

Artist or Photog

So, do you guys consider yourselves Artists or Photographers???? Saying both is a cop out ...

Why is it a cop-out?

Unfortunately both terms are overloaded and pickign one or the other is asking for scrutiny, but if I had to pick one to be known by (note: not self-proclaim) I would prefer Artist. The reason being that Photographer is more closely aligned with specific tools and techniques which to me are secondary to the final image.

Guy

a cop out

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some explanation of term for my too poor English?
Thanks!

To answer the question, I consider myself like "someone taking picture".
Some call me photographer...
Some talk about my artistic style and skills...
Who knows? certainely not me.
Most of my clients come to me because they've seen some of my pics in magazine, tradeshow stands...

I get paid to do the job I love and sometimes, as a bonus, I have a huge feeling of jubilation.
The strange thing is that this jubilation feeling can be when shooting an extraordinary regatta as well as a blue diesel engine in a studio...
I always try to show how I see the subject, and how I would like it to be seen to be loved/discovered/admired. Yes even an engine! or a Baccara flute for Champagne.
Sometimes its a real challenge, but I like that.

In regards to pricing:
There's competition between photogs, there's a market with many different kind of "buyers".
I did my own pricing, based on experience on how much can this client pay. But this is for "commercial" pictures.

I wish I knew for "art photography" unfortunately my US rep did not find -yet- a gallery to organize an exhibition that could sell...;-)

Cop Out

"Cop Out" is a term used in the US for someone that evades a question, does not take a stand one way or the other on an issue. The line between photographer and artist has never been very well defined ... Guy gave good reasoning for his choice of the moniker artist. With the arise of digital photography and post processing/graphic programs and their power to create a realistic image out of pure imagination or alter a photograph into abstraction and all points inbetween, the line between photographer and artist is even less defined.

Thanks Gary for your clear answer.

Personally I am an artist who uses photography as one of his medium (I use others, for example writing, painting, architecture, etc. etc.). But, I am first and foremost an artist. This is how I approach the world.

Asher, Guy, Nicolas, everyone else:

I received a response from John Smith and I am just about to post a response to his second email to my site. You will want to read it! The link will be at the top of my site's home page.

I love the discussion here. Thank you to Asher for starting the thread. I was thinking of doing it but was hesitating.

My essay is now "live" at:

http://beautiful-landscape.com/Thoughts48.html

Please note that this is a much longer response than my original "Open Answer" and that it was written in response to John Smith's second email which I received this afternoon.

Alain, I'm a nobody and relative newcomer to the world of image sales and sold my first set of digital images this year. The price I recieved for a 2 year exclusive rights deal was pretty low (remove a few noughts), but it help fund some gear and will hopefully provide vital exposure, when they get published in October

I read with interest your reply to John Smith before looking at your pricing. Personally, given the guarantees your offering , I do not consider them excessive but rather appropriate and relative to the level of personal and financial effort involved in producing them. At the end of the day, its what the market wlll bear. So good luck to you!

John,

Thank you. I appreciate your comments very much. Stock sales can be pretty challenging, meaning difficult to make a deal with the buyers. What stock buyers are willing to pay covers the gamut from a few cents to thousands of dollars. I don't do stock sales much, that is its not my focus, but if someone contact me I looking for stock images I do try to find a win-win way to do business . I now ask them what their budget is, how much they expect to pay, and so on. People so far have been very straightforward in giving me answers, and I have been able to do business while before I was having a much more difficult time. I think selling photographs for stock use requires good negotiating skills!

Alain, I noticed you removed the original response. I'm curious if this is due to backlash or if you changed your mind?

Guy

Guy,

I did not change my mind. I am just working on a complete essay on the subject and will publish it when it is ready, either on my site or as part of my paid subscription "Briot's View." I may also include it on my next Marketing CD and Marketing course as this material is really about things that can happen when you are in business.

Alain

Not a problem

In my limited market (horse events) I have never been accused of being 'too expensive'.
I have avoided this stigma by approaching the situation in 3 ways.
I first strive to get that "just right" shot. Often it is the technically correct image of my subjects that elicits the urge to buy.
I have streamlined my production cost/workflow to gain maximum results for time and money investment.
I treat each and every customer as though I am their "personal phtographer". A simple"thanks for the order" message no matter if it is a 10 dollar order or 200 dollar order.

This all started by listening to customer complaints about my "competition". People buy what they like, not necessarily what is offered. Common sense tells me to give them what they like, and, so-far-so-good.

There is nothing special about pricing art. It is the same as any other product. It is priced at what the market will stand, what your particular customer/class of customer will pay. You arrive at that price in various ways.

Its just the same when you buy stuff - be it a £8.00 work lamp from B&Q, or a £300.00 studio lamp from B&H

There is no secret, its nothing special. However, to get a higher price, you can always hype it up more, aim at a wealthier customer base.

Best wishes,

Ray

B&Q is a UK diy chain of stores. £= about 3000.00 usa dollars, iirc

£= about 3000.00 usa dollars, iirc

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Not yet, but if we keep up the current deficit, it will be soon enough.

Guy