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  #1  
Old April 30th, 2015, 03:03 PM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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Default The New Leica Monochrom

Wondering if any have placed pre-orders. LEICA would not spend research money on a CMOS Monochrome only camera, if it thought it would not make a profit.

Me, I will stick to converting to BW in post. After all that is what these software tools are for? Right?

Wonder how much better the M260 output would be from VSCO FILM pack BW FILM simulations.

Guess Leica hopes a lot of people will start drinking Kool Aid. :)
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  #2  
Old May 1st, 2015, 06:47 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahim mohammed View Post
Wondering if any have placed pre-orders. LEICA would not spend research money on a CMOS Monochrome only camera, if it thought it would not make a profit.
Hi Fahim,

There is undoubtedly a large enough number of Red Dot aficionados to make it a feasible product. However, I find the lack of control, other than using some lens filters, over the tone reproduction a severe limitation.

Quote:
Me, I will stick to converting to BW in post. After all that is what these software tools are for? Right?
Absolutely right! For the few black and white conversions I do, I prefer color, I'm really fond of Topaz B+W Effects (I hear good things about Google Silver Efex pro as well).

The benefit of these programs is that they add tons of creative options, like the uses of simulated colored lens filters, but also B+W luminosity contrast based on original color differences, mixed or desaturated color with B+W, output toning, adding grain, you name it.

Cheers,
Bart
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  #3  
Old May 1st, 2015, 09:02 AM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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Bart, I am also informed that to get the best of the MMs one has to spend considerable time in post production; the files are flat off the cam, it seems.

Thanks for your response.
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  #4  
Old May 1st, 2015, 10:12 AM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Not having a Leica cam I always thought that to photograph in colour is more interesting as the panoplia of solutions within the software is very broad.
I use Silver Effex pro which I like a lot.
However lately, I have been using LR for conversions with also pretty good results.
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  #5  
Old May 1st, 2015, 11:30 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahim mohammed View Post
Wondering if any have placed pre-orders. LEICA would not spend research money on a CMOS Monochrome only camera, if it thought it would not make a profit.
They sure think they can make a profit, but the cost of a separate B&W version is probably comparatively moderate. It is mainly a slightly modified colour version,

Quote:
Me, I will stick to converting to BW in post. After all that is what these software tools are for? Right?

Wonder how much better the M260 output would be from VSCO FILM pack BW FILM simulations.
The advantage of the B&W version is not in the quality of the conversion. The B&W version simply has about 30% higher resolution because it dispenses with the Bayer array. On the down side, you need to use colour filters at the time of capture (as was done with B&W film) instead of being able to emulate the same colour filters with software.
As to features of VSCO film simulations, like grain or crushed blacks, you use them on the monochrome version of the camera just as you do on the colour version of the camera. The output of the camera is neutral (at least it was in the first version, Leica may have added film simulations in the new version).
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  #6  
Old May 20th, 2015, 10:26 AM
Paul Abbott Paul Abbott is offline
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What are Leica thinking of with this limited piece of rubbish? The board of directors must be insane to push nonsense like this! This is the most dumbest camera i've come across. The files are flat and muddy and you would need to spend a while post-processing them and so, in that case you might as well have shot in colour using a better camera, and made that lovely conversion to B&W instead, if need be. The write speeds are abysmal as with the M9 so nothing has changed there, and you will still miss shots on the street.
I guess this camera would be used mainly in the 'street photography' theatre and so it's always best to have a colour file because lets face it time moves on and tastes and attitudes change. I find the use of B&W in street photography to be very anachronistic, nowadays.
I think those Leica people have their heads buried in a place where it really is just black...with no white at all.

To spend up to £6,000 on this, is money well wasted...Nothing in the pictures from the Monochrom that can't be achieved with another camera and Lightroom. Also, I can shoot B&W with the camera I currently own all day and night, 365 days of the year until it dies on me if I wanted to...I could take a single colour shot too. :)

PS, We're in a digital age producing digital images and all what they stand for, who cares about that 'film look' anymore. I wonder if on the advent of film way back in history, there were those who missed, romanticised and yearned for the look of what a glass negative produced? I don't think so, they moved on and embraced film...We should move on and embrace the look of digital and forget film. We will have our own standpoint in history with digitally created images instead of constantly yearning for that said 'film look' of yesterdays image.

I'm donning my flame retardent suit, just in case... :D
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  #7  
Old May 20th, 2015, 12:17 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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I'm donning my flame retardent suit, just in case... :D
Why would you need one? We are a fairly civil forum.
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  #8  
Old May 20th, 2015, 12:43 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
Why would you need one? We are a fairly civil forum.
You never know... just a precaution.
Just in case of. :) :)
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  #9  
Old May 20th, 2015, 02:26 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi. Fahim,

Quote:
Originally Posted by fahim mohammed View Post
Bart, I am also informed that to get the best of the MMs one has to spend considerable time in post production; the files are flat off the cam, it seems.
Part of the mystique, I guess. Like making the dashpots work right on MG carburetors! That was of course before my time.)

Best regards,

Doug
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  #10  
Old May 20th, 2015, 02:27 PM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
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I agree with Paul.
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  #11  
Old May 20th, 2015, 10:32 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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The special advantage of the uniform, color indifferent, pixel array is, as Jerome points out, the substantial increase in resolution not having to reconstruct colors.

If we had "on the fly" built in standard RGB and other filters, we could have a fast sequence of shots and then have our monochrome customized as in the classic days of B&W film and we could also choose to output in color, as that Russian did in the last decades of the Tsars.

In fact, a smart LED optical quality filter could allow amazing filtering even with ability to balance out severely challengingly high dynamic range of an overhead bright sunny day at the beach.

This is where a modern monochrome camera needs to go, to advance state of the art, rather than relying on sentimentality to sell another 10,000 cameras that cannot take better pictures!

Asher
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  #12  
Old May 21st, 2015, 05:59 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
The special advantage of the uniform, color indifferent, pixel array is, as Jerome points out, the substantial increase in resolution not having to reconstruct colors.
Indeed.

Quote:
If we had "on the fly" built in standard RGB and other filters, we could have a fast sequence of shots and then have our monochrome customized as in the classic days of B&W film and we could also choose to output in color, as that Russian did in the last decades of the Tsars.

In fact, a smart LED optical quality filter could allow amazing filtering even with ability to balance out severely challengingly high dynamic range of an overhead bright sunny day at the beach.

This is where a modern monochrome camera needs to go, to advance state of the art, rather than relying on sentimentality to sell another 10,000 cameras that cannot take better pictures
Well said.

Of course a true pixel trichromatic sensor (the Foveon is usually cited as the only commercially available example in cameras of the general type we are interested in) would take us a long way toward the benefits you mention. We hear tantalizing noises in that direction from Canon.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #13  
Old May 25th, 2015, 11:52 AM
James Lemon James Lemon is offline
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Wondering if any of you own a Monochrom or have had the pleasure of using One? I can select, tag, and process a photo in less than two minutes in lightroom with just basic adjustments and be out taking more photos with my Monochrom instead of playing with a conversion and wasting a considerable amount of valuable time finger painting in photo-shop

James
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  #14  
Old May 25th, 2015, 11:39 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lemon View Post


Wondering if any of you own a Monochrom or have had the pleasure of using One? I can select, tag, and process a photo in less than two minutes in lightroom with just basic adjustments and be out taking more photos with my Monochrom instead of playing with a conversion and wasting a considerable amount of valuable time finger painting in photo-shop

James
James,

For sure the tool that allows you to create more is the best! Unfortunately, not everyone's sense of discipline allows them to commit so early in the creative process. However, I am sure that for those who choose the Leica M, they could well be more efficient. It's just like those who used or still use actual silver gelatin film, immediately on releasing the shutter, the creation is almost done!

Asher
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  #15  
Old May 26th, 2015, 09:20 AM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Abbott View Post
......

To spend up to £6,000 on this, is money well wasted......

PS, We're in a digital age producing digital images and all what they stand for, who cares about that 'film look' anymore........

I'm donning my flame retardent suit, just in case... :D
Maybe money well wasted, or maybe not...just different points of view and perspectives.

Leica never have mentioned the ' film look ' in marketing the Monochrom. Who would push a product that only shoots in B&W....one little company that has the guts to do it.

No need to don any particular suit...but would help if those that use this product are not treated as photographically illiterate. In general I find those that use a Monochrom, or another Leica model, also
Have at their disposal other tools that might be more fitting for another job, not suited for the M.
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  #16  
Old May 29th, 2015, 09:57 AM
James Lemon James Lemon is offline
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Default Dead Sexy

Instead of purchasing the new Leica M246 I purchased another Leica MM with the CCD sensor along with the limited addition black chrome Summilux 50. Both of my cameras are paired with a Summilux 50 the other is paired with the silver chrome version. I really love this combination and the camera is very easy to use with ISO, shutter and aperture settings all in convenient locations. I also have the Summicron APO -75-M ASPH lens just in case I want to change things up a bit but that lens is attached to my Leica M6.



Taken with Iphone
Best, regards

James
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  #17  
Old May 29th, 2015, 10:34 AM
Robert Watcher Robert Watcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lemon View Post
Instead of purchasing the new Leica M246 I purchased another Leica MM with the CCD sensor along with the limited addition black chrome Summilux 50. Both of my cameras are paired with a Summilux 50 the other is paired with the silver chrome version. I really love this combination and the camera is very easy to use with ISO, shutter and aperture settings all in convenient locations. I also have the Summicron APO -75-M ASPH lens just in case I want to change things up a bit but that lens is attached to my Leica M6.



Taken with Iphone
Best, regards

James

Man that iPhone takes an awesome picture. Just kidding LOL :)



=========================
=========================



I suppose that in the same way that some photographers state that they want the absolute highest resolution and specs by shooting RAW or full frame etc, that if one was a Black and White purist, they may prefer to have the ability to extract every spec of additional detail or benefit that a dedicated black and white camera might provide.

I don't know that it does or that it matters for most people - - - but there are lots of photographers who don't rethink their work and are content with not having all kinds of options to confuse their choice. Interesting subject - - - although any kind of Leica is likely never in my radar. Although for some reason, I always kind of equated my Olympus cameras with Leica back in the day. Can't remember why though.


I have made a few posts indicating that I shoot black and white in my camera from time to time. Being I only save as JPEG, that means I am stuck (happily) with that choice - - - so in effect is a dedicated B&W camera at that point.


------
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  #18  
Old May 29th, 2015, 01:04 PM
James Lemon James Lemon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Watcher View Post
Man that iPhone takes an awesome picture. Just kidding LOL :)



=========================
=========================



I suppose that in the same way that some photographers state that they want the absolute highest resolution and specs by shooting RAW or full frame etc, that if one was a Black and White purist, they may prefer to have the ability to extract every spec of additional detail or benefit that a dedicated black and white camera might provide.

I don't know that it does or that it matters for most people - - - but there are lots of photographers who don't rethink their work and are content with not having all kinds of options to confuse their choice. Interesting subject - - - although any kind of Leica is likely never in my radar. Although for some reason, I always kind of equated my Olympus cameras with Leica back in the day. Can't remember why though.


I have made a few posts indicating that I shoot black and white in my camera from time to time. Being I only save as JPEG, that means I am stuck (happily) with that choice - - - so in effect is a dedicated B&W camera at that point.


------
Hello Robert

I do know other professionals who prefer black and white but have no choice in the matter but they do shoot a raw color file with a black and white JPEG and just tweak the JPEG with fantastic results.

Best, regards

James
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Old May 29th, 2015, 02:19 PM
Robert Watcher Robert Watcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lemon View Post
Hello Robert

I do know other professionals who prefer black and white but have no choice in the matter but they do shoot a raw color file with a black and white JPEG and just tweak the JPEG with fantastic results.

Best, regards

James

Yes I as well know of many who shoot both JPEG and RAW - - - it's quite common isn't it. Just that I don't shoot that way, so as I stated, it's almost like I'm shooting with a dedicated Black and White camera. As would be the case with others who chose to shoot similarly to me. :)

Sorry for any confusion, I was making 2 posts in one - - - the first part under the ========= was a joke to you. The lower part wasn't being addressed specifically to you, but was referring to the content of this thread in general.
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