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Diffraction effect (originally titled: Reciprocal Failure) quick test MF

As promised: this is the test of distance for the p25 phaseone/mamiya. Since the Nikon is DX and I used the 50mm the images don't match in terms of coverage of subject, so we can't compare one system to the other in terms of resolution, only the way the image quality behaves according to diaphragm opening...

p25test.gif


I would go for f.11 to f.16 ... what do you think...
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Diffraction, focal length, and the price of beans

Let me try and cut through some of the palaver on the way different format sizes, or pixel pitches, or focal lengths, or focal plane magnifications, influence the "aperture at which diffraction effects become significant".

Firstly, let me suggest the following (which are all arbitrary; it will turn out that the conclusion isn't really affected by what we choose here!):

1. For any given resolution value, R, (in, for example, cycles/mm), we can simplistically think of the resolution limitation being equivalent to the result of blurring by a blur figure of diameter d.

2. Adopting Rayleigh's criterion, it is reasonable to say that:

d=2/R.

3. The inherent "geometric" resolution of a sensel array is:

R=1/p

where p is the sensel pitch. ["Geometric resolution" ignores the Kell factor.]

4. We can thus think of the resolution of the sensel array as being the result of a blur figure whose diameter is given by:

d=2p

5. We can consider the limitation of resolution produced by diffraction as being equivalent to the result caused by blurring with a blur circle whose diameter can be thought of as the diameter of the Airy disk (the central "dark" portion of the blur figure created by diffraction).

6. We can arbitrarily decide that the impact of diffraction upon resolution is "significant" when the diameter of the Airy disk (A) is the same as the diameter of the equivalent blur circle corresponding to the geometric resolution limit based on sensel pitch. That is, when:

A=d

and thus when

A=2p

Now, the diameter of the Airy disk, A, can be reckoned as:

A=2.44 LN

where L is the wavelength of light of interest and N is the f/number of the lens. (This assumes the Airy disk is created on a focal plane which lies at the rear focal point of the lens; that is, lies the focal length behind the second principal point when the lens is focused on an object at infinity).

Note that the focal length of the lens does not enter into this result.

We can combine the various equations and solve for N to determine the f/number at which (based on our huge pile of assumptions) the impact of diffraction would be considered significant:

N=0.82 (p/L)

Now, just for kicks, what value would that give for some sensel pitch of interest to us?

Well, for the Canon EOS 40D, the sensel pitch is about 5.8 um. We will assume "midband" light whose wavelength is 550 nm. Then, the relationships above would suggest a critical aperture of f/10.5. (Well, fancy that!)

Now my point here is not to suggest that this value will match the results of empirical testing. For, one things, the assumptions on which it is based are very naïve. For example, using a Kell factor of 0.75 would make the critical aperture come out to f/14.

It is to point out that, using whatever assumptions we feel are appropriate, the result as to the "critical" f/number will not depend on focal length or sensor size or anything else but sensel pitch (and of course the wavelength of light we assume).
 
I'm not so sure about the test. It's not focused at f:2.8, and I'm not sure why the image is moving around in the aniGIF. Did you not use manual focus and a tripod, or is the motion just an effect of slightly different crops from a larger image?

That said, I usually find the sweet spot for medium format lenses and film at about f:11.
 
I'm not so sure about the test. It's not focused at f:2.8, and I'm not sure why the image is moving around in the aniGIF. Did you not use manual focus and a tripod, or is the motion just an effect of slightly different crops from a larger image?

There is one slide at the end that moved when I was doing the animation in CS3, I was tired so did not correct it, otherwise there may be movement in the trees because of the wind. So what you see is the "slides" not perfectly aligned, but they are independent images that where put together for comparison purposes.

I used a tripod and AF (probably more accurate than for me to focus manually.

This are crops from a larger image, (the file is 63Megas or 22megapixels)

I think that the image at f. 2.8 may look like this because the lens is not resolving detail because it is wide open, not a focus problem...
 
Close up or infinity is not a factor, is it?

I have not seen any examples that would suggest that it changes the aperture value at which diffraction starts to have a visible impact, so the focus distance appears to have no effect on the threshold. Due to magnification at close range, the effect of the induced blur is easier to see at high magnification factors.

Bart
 
As promised: this is the test of distance for the p25 phaseone/mamiya.

...

I would go for f.11 to f.16 ... what do you think...

Yes, and it's pretty much in line with what was predicted (f/11). So maybe the magic threshold number for sensors without AA-filter is someting like 1.7 x the sensel pitch, where it is 1.5 for sensors with an AA-filter.

That would allow for a simple threshold aperture determination:

Aperture = sensel pitch x 1.5 (or 1.7) / 0.555 / 2.44, or simplified
sensel pitch x 1.108 for sensors with AA-filter, or
sensel pitch x 1.255 for sensors without AA-filter.

Let's see if there is more evidence forthcoming.

Bart
 
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That's exactly what I meant to say, Bart, "the effect of induced blur is easier to see at high magnification factors".

Thierry

I have not seen any examples that would suggest that it changes the aperture value at which diffraction starts to have a visible impact, so the focus distance appears to have no effect on the threshold. Due to magnification at close range, the effect of the induced blur is easier to see at high magnification factors.

Bart
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Bart,

I have not seen any examples that would suggest that it changes the aperture value at which diffraction starts to have a visible impact, so the focus distance appears to have no effect on the threshold.

In fact, for significantly close focus distances, the distance from the second principal point to the focal plane (Q) becomes significantly greater than f (the focal length), and as a result the diameter of the Airy disk (for a given f/number and wavelength) increases. (You'll recall that in my derivation I stipulated focus at infinity.)

At unity magnification, where Q=2f, the diameter of the Airy disk becomes twice that for focus at infinity. Thus the f/number we consider to be the critical one would be half the f/number that would pertain for focus at infinity.

Best regards,

Doug
 
The problem with using AF with a test like this is that the focus can change slightly from frame to frame. I suspect you could get f:2.8 a bit more in focus.
 
The problem with using AF with a test like this is that the focus can change slightly from frame to frame. I suspect you could get f:2.8 a bit more in focus.

I assume you are referring to Michael's post, I took my sample frames at manual (live view) focus, at the indicated F-stops, the Canon TS-E lenses I used are just that, manual, which means, full control (at 10x zoom on the camera LCD).

My experience with stopped down aperture ranges is that stopped down apertures beyond f/5.6 (on a 36x24 mm sensor array) really take down the importance of mis-focus. Good question though!

Bart
 
Hi, Bart,

In fact, for significantly close focus distances, the distance from the second principal point to the focal plane (Q) becomes significantly greater than f (the focal length), and as a result the diameter of the Airy disk (for a given f/number and wavelength) increases. (You'll recall that in my derivation I stipulated focus at infinity.)

At unity magnification, where Q=2f, the diameter of the Airy disk becomes twice that for focus at infinity. Thus the f/number we consider to be the critical one would be half the f/number that would pertain for focus at infinity.

Best regards,

Doug

Hi Doug,

Yes, I've tried to convey that the magnification of the projected image on the sensor plane will have an effect on the 'perceived' resolution. However, the threshold of 'perceivable' degradation will still be at a given average between reducing optical aberrations, and increasing diffraction blurring, and it's mostly determined to be between aperture number and sensel pitch determined (assuming a sensel fill-factor closer to 90-100% due to micro lenses). That's why I've maintained my (admittedly critical) position (of 1.5x sensel pitch, for AA-filtered sensels) rather than the more popular 2x sensel pitch (or even including the Kell factor, which I doubt applies to non-(sensel)aperture sampled captures).

Bart
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Bart,
Hi Doug,

Yes, I've tried to convey that the magnification of the projected image on the sensor plane will have an effect on the 'perceived' resolution.

No, my point has nothing to do with image magnification, or with the "perception of resolution".

It has to do with the distance Q, which affects the diameter of the Airy disk. For focus at a significant distance, Q=f (the focal length). For focus at closer distances, Q increases, and with it, the actual diameter of the Airy disk for any given f/number.

(or even including the Kell factor, which I doubt applies to non-(sensel)aperture sampled captures).

I have no idea what "non-(sensel)aperture sampled captures" means.

You suggested in another note that you did not feel that the Kell factor concept applied to an array that had finite sized sampling windows (such as pixel lens windows) rather than "point" sensors (or maybe it's the other way around).

In fact, the Kell concept does not assume point sensels. Whether the sensels are "point" or "finite area" sensels, an array with 100 rows of sensels per mm will not generate a resolution of 50 line pairs per mm for any old random alignment of the test pattern.

It will exhibit a resolution of 50 lp/mm for a test pattern with the dark and light lines precisely aligned with alternate rows of sensels. For a test pattern shifted from that alignment by 1/2 the sensel pitch, the output will be "flat gray".

The Kell factor allows us to estimate the "overall effective resolution" exhibited over test patterns of random alignment, or for skew alignment (as is actually done in resolution testing).

What parameter do you consider to typically be 1.5 times the sensel pitch? I've lost track of the chain of thought that goes with.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Bart,

I suspect your reference to "1.5 x the sensel pitch" means that you find that typically, in reality, the resolution of an array with sensel pitch p (mm) would be about 1/(1.5p) lines/mm (lines in the video resolution sense), or 1/(3p) line pairs/mm.

That's very reasonable.

This by the way is the value that would be predicted by the Kell model with a Kell factor of 0.67 (0.75 is commonly presumed).

Best regards,

Doug
 
Hi, Bart,

I suspect your reference to "1.5 x the sensel pitch" means that you find that typically, in reality, the resolution of an array with sensel pitch p (mm) would be about 1/(1.5p) lines/mm (lines in the video resolution sense), or 1/(3p) line pairs/mm.

I do not necessarily want to call it resolution, because that's too difficult to represent by a single number (and e.g. says nothing about contrast). However, when the diameter of the diffraction pattern reaches 1.5 x the size of the sensel pitch, I can see a visual degradation of the image resolution. Call it the threshold for visible diffraction.

The degradation is easier to see in images that are captured with a high magnification factor (close-up and macro), because the degraded image detail is magnified, but it starts to occur at the same aperture value as with infinity focus (see my 2 animated examples, one at 5:1 and one at 1:1000 magnification factor). The 1.5 factor applies to a Bayer CFA sensor array with AA-filter.

Bart
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Bart,

I do not necessarily want to call it resolution, because that's too difficult to represent by a single number (and e.g. says nothing about contrast).
Quite so. I was really teasing you, and you are too smart to have taken the bait!

However, when the diameter of the diffraction pattern reaches 1.5 x the size of the sensel pitch, I can see a visual degradation of the image resolution. Call it the threshold for visible diffraction.

I understand. Makes sense to me. We are quite together on this.

Best regards,

Doug
 
Thank you guys, If I had to hire experts to present testimony in my thread -well, not mine, but I started it- I could have not done it better with an open budget...

... carry on...
 
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