Alain Briot
pro member
Here is my latest collage from multiple P45 files:
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Canyon Wall Collage
- Thread starter Alain Briot
- Start date
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
This Alain, I really like!
This picture works so well with the color and would not have the same presence in B&W. The gentle light and the layers of different material in the stone make an impressive image. This works as what I call a "unit" of art, as it feels complete and nothing need be added.
Is this a slot canyon? Are these from hand-held shots and how many where there? Could you share with is a small 100% cutout to show the texture of the rock where it is striped and well lit. I'm wondering what this would look like?
Are there fossils in the layers?
Is that sand on the floor of the ? cave? or is this a rock face?
Thanks for sharing.
Asher
This picture works so well with the color and would not have the same presence in B&W. The gentle light and the layers of different material in the stone make an impressive image. This works as what I call a "unit" of art, as it feels complete and nothing need be added.
Is this a slot canyon? Are these from hand-held shots and how many where there? Could you share with is a small 100% cutout to show the texture of the rock where it is striped and well lit. I'm wondering what this would look like?
Are there fossils in the layers?
Is that sand on the floor of the ? cave? or is this a rock face?
Thanks for sharing.
Asher
Alain Briot
pro member
Asher,
You are welcome.
Yes, slot canyon. As for the rest I prefer to let the audience find meaning in the image. Meaning is what I want to focus on. Not technique.
Alain
You are welcome.
Yes, slot canyon. As for the rest I prefer to let the audience find meaning in the image. Meaning is what I want to focus on. Not technique.
Alain
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Adding Value to Beauty!
It's not technique that I ask about, just context! One can only find enjoyment from the esthetics of your picture. That's not meaning. For meaning we need signposts: who lives there, what sort of a place it is, how far away is it from the road, is it being spoiled, is it eroded each year by winds or water when it rains (if ever?? etc. Do native Americans live there or near there and value this places.
Did you lose you lens cap or the SD card fell in the sand? Meaning has to come from some experience. Visual esthetics are just beauty and sentimentality. These are good enough in themselves and I've already commended you on that! Yes I like your photographic work here very much. It works! Still I'd like more. Why? Two reasons: beauty and meaning to me.
When I ask the question on the layers, it's because I cannot see the real large picture. We just see a small copy. That in itself gives a sense of your work. However there's far more. If it was sufficient in this form then you could have more easily taken it with a point and shoot and it would still be beautiful as it is.
The full beauty will be of course when printed. Still a hint of what's possibile is by seeing what the layers look like! (Not photoshop layers, just the layers of texture of the rock!) That's got zero to do with technique. In fact I could care less how the little Martian workers inside the camera draw the image! It could be my Martian magic for all I care!
Alain, my friend, we are just intrigued enough by the immediate beauty to learn to learn more. My request is for more of the nature of the place. Reflexly saying that such a request is for "technical details" misses my point! Layers, for example, indicate passage of time. That then is more relevant. That's why I asked about it to connect with the substance, the essence of the place.
Beauty is not the same as compelling interest. The latter more readily comes by adding human values.
Still if that's all we get, then that's that.
Asher
Alain,
It's not technique that I ask about, just context! One can only find enjoyment from the esthetics of your picture. That's not meaning. For meaning we need signposts: who lives there, what sort of a place it is, how far away is it from the road, is it being spoiled, is it eroded each year by winds or water when it rains (if ever?? etc. Do native Americans live there or near there and value this places.
Did you lose you lens cap or the SD card fell in the sand? Meaning has to come from some experience. Visual esthetics are just beauty and sentimentality. These are good enough in themselves and I've already commended you on that! Yes I like your photographic work here very much. It works! Still I'd like more. Why? Two reasons: beauty and meaning to me.
When I ask the question on the layers, it's because I cannot see the real large picture. We just see a small copy. That in itself gives a sense of your work. However there's far more. If it was sufficient in this form then you could have more easily taken it with a point and shoot and it would still be beautiful as it is.
The full beauty will be of course when printed. Still a hint of what's possibile is by seeing what the layers look like! (Not photoshop layers, just the layers of texture of the rock!) That's got zero to do with technique. In fact I could care less how the little Martian workers inside the camera draw the image! It could be my Martian magic for all I care!
Alain, my friend, we are just intrigued enough by the immediate beauty to learn to learn more. My request is for more of the nature of the place. Reflexly saying that such a request is for "technical details" misses my point! Layers, for example, indicate passage of time. That then is more relevant. That's why I asked about it to connect with the substance, the essence of the place.
Beauty is not the same as compelling interest. The latter more readily comes by adding human values.
Still if that's all we get, then that's that.
Asher
Alain Briot
pro member
Asher,
That's going to be that for now. After we have completed the move to our new house, I will have open studio days, and that will give the opportunity for everyone who is able to travel to Arizona to see the original prints, full size. Some of these prints are 10 feet long. Even a 100% crop of a section of the image won't do it justice.
There is no substitute for original prints. Everything else is a reproduction. I'll have an announcement soon about all that on this site if that's ok with you.
Alain
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
Millions of years in a single shot, each layer reflecting a time in history of the earth. A geomorphologist would have very interesting insights to share on such a stone formation. They can read such a picture like a book. I can not, soi this is just my imagination without the needed scientific background for propper interpretation of the geology....
Once there was a great water that rushed along those stones and slowly carved the stones into shape. The shape of the stones left is like a mirror of the dynamics of the flow of water. Massive flood events of paleaothic proportions caused incisions in the stone. The shear and stress distribution of the flow can be seen in the stones.
Those flood events must have been gigantic, and their abrasive force beyond comprehension. I would assume the flow in this picture went from the right to the left, but I might be totally wrong here.
What is left, and what the picture can not tell, is the wind and the smell of ths place, but and this is intruiging, I think it does give me an impression of the sound of that place. I can almost hear it.
A ghostly appearance is there, the shadows and the light are like spirits of an ancient time, long forgotten. The light centered in the picture was irritating me, is it natural, was it staged? Assuming it is natural, does it come from above or from behind? It nearly looks like a spotlight.
My eyes want to look up and see where it goes. Is there an opening above us that allows a view of the sky?
It is a magical place where I can see people sitting in a circle in total content.
They are listening to the sounds of the canyon, ancient spirits, the rocks are talking, you just have to listen. It is a group of young warriors and a old man, he holds some white sage in his wrinkled hands and burns it, then smudges the young men, sits down again and starts talking in a language most of us do not understand anymore. He talks of times that are long gone, but the stories he speaks of are full of wisdom and teachings. Teachings so different from what the western world understands as teachings. He does not talk about geomorphology, but about respect, and true matters of life. The young men sit there with an open heart and listen to his words. He talks about peace, and war, love and fear, but he does not use these words, he paints pictures instead with his gentle words, pictures so vivid that they are engraved forever in the very soul of of the young men sitting there ....
Thanks Alain!
Once there was a great water that rushed along those stones and slowly carved the stones into shape. The shape of the stones left is like a mirror of the dynamics of the flow of water. Massive flood events of paleaothic proportions caused incisions in the stone. The shear and stress distribution of the flow can be seen in the stones.
Those flood events must have been gigantic, and their abrasive force beyond comprehension. I would assume the flow in this picture went from the right to the left, but I might be totally wrong here.
What is left, and what the picture can not tell, is the wind and the smell of ths place, but and this is intruiging, I think it does give me an impression of the sound of that place. I can almost hear it.
A ghostly appearance is there, the shadows and the light are like spirits of an ancient time, long forgotten. The light centered in the picture was irritating me, is it natural, was it staged? Assuming it is natural, does it come from above or from behind? It nearly looks like a spotlight.
My eyes want to look up and see where it goes. Is there an opening above us that allows a view of the sky?
It is a magical place where I can see people sitting in a circle in total content.
They are listening to the sounds of the canyon, ancient spirits, the rocks are talking, you just have to listen. It is a group of young warriors and a old man, he holds some white sage in his wrinkled hands and burns it, then smudges the young men, sits down again and starts talking in a language most of us do not understand anymore. He talks of times that are long gone, but the stories he speaks of are full of wisdom and teachings. Teachings so different from what the western world understands as teachings. He does not talk about geomorphology, but about respect, and true matters of life. The young men sit there with an open heart and listen to his words. He talks about peace, and war, love and fear, but he does not use these words, he paints pictures instead with his gentle words, pictures so vivid that they are engraved forever in the very soul of of the young men sitting there ....
Thanks Alain!
Alain Briot
pro member
Georg,
I enjoyed reading your response.
I like it much better than Asher's barrage of questions!
ALain
I enjoyed reading your response.
I like it much better than Asher's barrage of questions!
ALain
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
...that's because we are artists, and Asher is the art critic....
...............................RUNS LIKE HELL...........................
Alain Briot
pro member
Could be ;-)
But I prefer one question at a time also. Too many questions at once and I shut down!
But I prefer one question at a time also. Too many questions at once and I shut down!
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Alain,
Georg did not let you off the hook? A barrage? So a caress is rough rubbing! Georg is romantic about aboriginal people! They are in fact no different than us, just have lest dangerous tools for their impulses and imperatives! The the Fore tribesmen in Indonesia, Inca, Sioux and Coastal West African tribes were all ruthless slavers! Some were cannibals!
M y questions stand. A context for pictures is a kindness. Imagine a girl who is beautiful: we can admire or lust after her. However there's no humanity beyond that. Some description helps us know the essence. Georg made up that! However, you know more.
A simple picture of the stone layers is not a hard thing!!!! It will give an idea of the immense capacity of your photograph. However, as I said, if what you have given is it, we can enjoy it as is since it has beauty.
Asher
Georg did not let you off the hook? A barrage? So a caress is rough rubbing! Georg is romantic about aboriginal people! They are in fact no different than us, just have lest dangerous tools for their impulses and imperatives! The the Fore tribesmen in Indonesia, Inca, Sioux and Coastal West African tribes were all ruthless slavers! Some were cannibals!
M y questions stand. A context for pictures is a kindness. Imagine a girl who is beautiful: we can admire or lust after her. However there's no humanity beyond that. Some description helps us know the essence. Georg made up that! However, you know more.
A simple picture of the stone layers is not a hard thing!!!! It will give an idea of the immense capacity of your photograph. However, as I said, if what you have given is it, we can enjoy it as is since it has beauty.
Asher
Alain Briot
pro member
Asher,
Not necessarily. You may have questions, but as the artist I may prefer to let the work stand for itself. Artistic freedom ;-)
You sound a little too didactic for my taste right now!
ALain
Not necessarily. You may have questions, but as the artist I may prefer to let the work stand for itself. Artistic freedom ;-)
You sound a little too didactic for my taste right now!
ALain
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
That's O.K. Alain,
Still next time a small relaxed intro! We'd love to know more of what you think. It's what makes work so special and personal and gives us an intimate connection with you. It's that subjective feeling we yearn. That kindness would be really appreciated! We can of course enjoy and make of your work whatever. However, that's a second best!
If the pictures weren't so impressive I'd have a real complaint!
"I saw an old man leaning on a wooden crutch, he said you should not ask for so much,
Then a pretty woman in a darkened door said why not ask for more!" Leonard Cohen in Bird on the Wire!
I follow the pretty woman in the darkened door. That's why I ask for more so I can get something of the artist's wavelength.
Asher
Still next time a small relaxed intro! We'd love to know more of what you think. It's what makes work so special and personal and gives us an intimate connection with you. It's that subjective feeling we yearn. That kindness would be really appreciated! We can of course enjoy and make of your work whatever. However, that's a second best!
If the pictures weren't so impressive I'd have a real complaint!
"I saw an old man leaning on a wooden crutch, he said you should not ask for so much,
Then a pretty woman in a darkened door said why not ask for more!" Leonard Cohen in Bird on the Wire!
I follow the pretty woman in the darkened door. That's why I ask for more so I can get something of the artist's wavelength.
Asher
Ben Rubinstein
pro member
First digital shot of Alain's that I ever didn't seriously dislike. I was and am a big admirer of his work up until the point he discovered HDR and digital cameras, IMO it all went downhill from then. My own very personal opinion of course.
Georg R. Baumann
Inactive
@Asher
While this might have struck you as romantic, it is not! It is simply what I experienced myself to a degree and found myself remembered to, but I spare you the downsides of my experiences which have more to do with suffering and death than you might think!
@Alain
Admittedly a public platform, we are amongst friends here, and while I understand that you are very cautious about posting your work outside of your own realm, however, I'd like you to reconsider your offers.
What I mean is simple.
You will not risk anything at all, please correct me if I am wrong, by posting sizes that allow the observer to appreciate your work to a better degree. - What would you risk Alain? - I for one, and of course this is only my personal opinion and choice, I will not spend more time looking at thumbnails of your work where I have to press my nose against the screen, to exaggerate it a bit here, but I am sure, you get my drift.
You talk about a multiple P45 stitch and present a flippin ridiculous size to look at. - It does not work this way, really not Alain! - I would go that far to say, look, this belongs into the layback cafe, as this could be the shot of a 5 MP Nokia phone done by a brat trapped in a slot canyon short before they hauled his arse outa there, and I have no way of telling other by what you offer. If you post in this fora of MFDB, you need to consider the people looking at it, at the very least!
Otherwise, I think, you risk to be taken as someone who is here on the task of selfpromotion, and this would not be to your benefit, on the contrary I think! I really hope I could bring a point across here.
I know we talked about that before, but you have to respect other peoples efforts, and you disrespect that in such manner to a degree, such as Nicolas and his work with a Sinar Hy6 for example, or you just decide that you do not wish to post here at all.
Again, this is just my € 0,02 (which is more than $ 0,02 as a famous forum member stated not long ago)
While this might have struck you as romantic, it is not! It is simply what I experienced myself to a degree and found myself remembered to, but I spare you the downsides of my experiences which have more to do with suffering and death than you might think!
@Alain
Admittedly a public platform, we are amongst friends here, and while I understand that you are very cautious about posting your work outside of your own realm, however, I'd like you to reconsider your offers.
What I mean is simple.
You will not risk anything at all, please correct me if I am wrong, by posting sizes that allow the observer to appreciate your work to a better degree. - What would you risk Alain? - I for one, and of course this is only my personal opinion and choice, I will not spend more time looking at thumbnails of your work where I have to press my nose against the screen, to exaggerate it a bit here, but I am sure, you get my drift.
You talk about a multiple P45 stitch and present a flippin ridiculous size to look at. - It does not work this way, really not Alain! - I would go that far to say, look, this belongs into the layback cafe, as this could be the shot of a 5 MP Nokia phone done by a brat trapped in a slot canyon short before they hauled his arse outa there, and I have no way of telling other by what you offer. If you post in this fora of MFDB, you need to consider the people looking at it, at the very least!
Otherwise, I think, you risk to be taken as someone who is here on the task of selfpromotion, and this would not be to your benefit, on the contrary I think! I really hope I could bring a point across here.
I know we talked about that before, but you have to respect other peoples efforts, and you disrespect that in such manner to a degree, such as Nicolas and his work with a Sinar Hy6 for example, or you just decide that you do not wish to post here at all.
Again, this is just my € 0,02 (which is more than $ 0,02 as a famous forum member stated not long ago)
Ben Rubinstein
pro member
In Alains defence, he sells photographic art not technology, there is a huge difference between shooting with a particular medium to enable breathtaking large prints, and shooting with it to maintain bragging rights with 100% crops for the pixel peeping 'wow' crowd.
The guy's proven himself, he's very sucessful, he doesn't need to sell his technique, he's selling art to the likes who couldn't care less how it was done, just that it was done and that it triggers the emotional response that proves his worth as an artist. Unless he is specifically trying to boast here about his equipment or prove a point, what would a 100% crop do unless someone specifically wants a technical discussion about the merits of a certain technology? From what I've read here Alain isn't interested in that (and I hope he pardons me for saying this!), he is sharing the excitement at the extension of his vision through the use of a new tool. He could probably care less about peoples opinion about the technical voodoo that he is currently utilising to get there. As a businessman he isn't shooting or selling to photographers (though one day I'll buy the Angel photograph!) and probably far more respects the professionalism of people looking at similar equipment to have done their own thorough investigations and testing to see whether the equipment fits their own specific needs rather than trying to dictate a set standard or goal by providing crops.
No doubt he will disagree about what I've said, it's just the impression I've got following his writing and his art.
The guy's proven himself, he's very sucessful, he doesn't need to sell his technique, he's selling art to the likes who couldn't care less how it was done, just that it was done and that it triggers the emotional response that proves his worth as an artist. Unless he is specifically trying to boast here about his equipment or prove a point, what would a 100% crop do unless someone specifically wants a technical discussion about the merits of a certain technology? From what I've read here Alain isn't interested in that (and I hope he pardons me for saying this!), he is sharing the excitement at the extension of his vision through the use of a new tool. He could probably care less about peoples opinion about the technical voodoo that he is currently utilising to get there. As a businessman he isn't shooting or selling to photographers (though one day I'll buy the Angel photograph!) and probably far more respects the professionalism of people looking at similar equipment to have done their own thorough investigations and testing to see whether the equipment fits their own specific needs rather than trying to dictate a set standard or goal by providing crops.
No doubt he will disagree about what I've said, it's just the impression I've got following his writing and his art.
Alain Briot
pro member
I actually agree. As Ben points out, this is about vision, not technology.
Ben: Which one is the "Angel" photograph? Today is the right day to buy it. We're having a special offer ;-)
Alain Briot
pro member
I don't remember seeing a requirement in the MFDB thread that full size crops must be posted along with the image. If there is such a requirement, then indeed please move my posts to the area that is more appropriate for them, one where 100% crops aren't required in order to post images
James Newman
Member
I am not really sure where I stand on this topic. It would be nice, for me, to be able to see more of the detail in an image like this, but not an absolute requirement. I do so enjoy following this thread though. It in itself has been extremely interesting and enlightening. Keep it going.
James
James
Asher Kelman
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Folks,
This is not about anything "technical". It's about being kind and considerate!
1. This section is space devoted to a MF camera and digital back to show off its capability and practical use in the hands of a competent photographer.
2. With each post we should learn something more of the system. Wonderful and mundane. This is not a gallery or catalog of prints to order. This is not about beauty! We need sharing of experience and results.
3. Having pictures of beautiful things is, in itself, not sufficient in any part of OPF in posts dealing with a lens, camera or system. For that we always need 100% cutouts to show how the image is written. That's not technical! We are not asking about noise, pixels size, A/D conversion or anything else, just the pictures. Nicolas Claris, (who earns his living from photography in a competitive world) has no problems sharing a tiny portion of the image in detail. If this is not important then why use that expensive lens/camera?
3. We have always asked for the artists intent and an introduction for images as we want to look at them from the point of view the artists imperatives, biases and delights well before we bring our own ideas to the photograph. That's the starting premise of OPF's approach to photography, first the photographers intent and context.
4. These small photos might be beautiful. How does that help us without any intro and thinking and also with no detail, such as the pattern in the rocks I requested? That's not technical! It's the picture! We understand not wanting to put on the web a huge image. We also have not the bandwidth to spare, LOL! However, whenever a unique especially in this case much touted and expensive system is used, we want to see how beautifully some detail is rendered.
We cannot look at a print! We couldn't afford to buy it. So tell me in what way is this small picture different from taking the same scene with a G9 or some other digicam with a wide angle lens?
Asher
This is not about anything "technical". It's about being kind and considerate!
1. This section is space devoted to a MF camera and digital back to show off its capability and practical use in the hands of a competent photographer.
2. With each post we should learn something more of the system. Wonderful and mundane. This is not a gallery or catalog of prints to order. This is not about beauty! We need sharing of experience and results.
3. Having pictures of beautiful things is, in itself, not sufficient in any part of OPF in posts dealing with a lens, camera or system. For that we always need 100% cutouts to show how the image is written. That's not technical! We are not asking about noise, pixels size, A/D conversion or anything else, just the pictures. Nicolas Claris, (who earns his living from photography in a competitive world) has no problems sharing a tiny portion of the image in detail. If this is not important then why use that expensive lens/camera?
3. We have always asked for the artists intent and an introduction for images as we want to look at them from the point of view the artists imperatives, biases and delights well before we bring our own ideas to the photograph. That's the starting premise of OPF's approach to photography, first the photographers intent and context.
4. These small photos might be beautiful. How does that help us without any intro and thinking and also with no detail, such as the pattern in the rocks I requested? That's not technical! It's the picture! We understand not wanting to put on the web a huge image. We also have not the bandwidth to spare, LOL! However, whenever a unique especially in this case much touted and expensive system is used, we want to see how beautifully some detail is rendered.
We cannot look at a print! We couldn't afford to buy it. So tell me in what way is this small picture different from taking the same scene with a G9 or some other digicam with a wide angle lens?
Asher
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Ben Rubinstein
pro member
The Antelope Light Dance Alain, at present I'm living in a 32 square meter apartment with my wife and child so nowhere near enough room to hang artwork. The day will come when I can build though...
Alain Briot
pro member
Hi Ben,
32 square meters is roughly 350 square feet. I understand your situation. I'm always amazed (actually disbelief is more to the point) at the difference in size between homes in the US and in Europe. France is very similar to England in that regard.
I grew up (in France) never having enough space. In the attempt to "push the walls" I became expert at organizing things and finding more space where there is none. The problem is that the walls can't be pushed back. The only way to make more space is to have more space.
Now I live in the US (Arizona). The feeling that comes from having plenty of space to do whatever it is you want to do is best described in one word: finally!
If you want, I can help you find a friendly realtor if you need help investing in a larger home to display your artwork ;-)
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Ben Rubinstein
pro member
Hi Alain, my home is actually in Jerusalem though I commute to the UK for work each week. I have enough space to literally double my apartment on land that I own but after two years of fighting, my request to build is going to be heard by the Supreme Court in a few months (I don't take things lightly!).
Alain Briot
pro member
Ben,
I had you on the wrong continent. Sorry about that. Somehow I thought you lived in the UK. Maybe my comments also apply to homes in Israel vs. in the US?
I thought dealing with building permits from the city was tough here. I now know someone who is going through a whole lot more! I wish you good luck with your building permits. Having to go to the Supreme Court is no small thing.
I had you on the wrong continent. Sorry about that. Somehow I thought you lived in the UK. Maybe my comments also apply to homes in Israel vs. in the US?
I thought dealing with building permits from the city was tough here. I now know someone who is going through a whole lot more! I wish you good luck with your building permits. Having to go to the Supreme Court is no small thing.
Ben Rubinstein
pro member
It says I live in the UK under my name on the posts, I only moved back out here in December!
I originally didn't get the permit, I appealed and the appeal judge wrote a ruling allowing me to build. However he wrote a precident in building law into the ruling which affects national law on the subject. As such the case went to the district court and when the city council couldn't force the appeal judge to retract his ruling the case went to the supreme court. Luckily I'm not having to pay for any of this, the case is between the city council and the appeal court but the result will directly effect whether or not I get my building permit! Not bad for having been in the country for just 5 months.. ;-)
I originally didn't get the permit, I appealed and the appeal judge wrote a ruling allowing me to build. However he wrote a precident in building law into the ruling which affects national law on the subject. As such the case went to the district court and when the city council couldn't force the appeal judge to retract his ruling the case went to the supreme court. Luckily I'm not having to pay for any of this, the case is between the city council and the appeal court but the result will directly effect whether or not I get my building permit! Not bad for having been in the country for just 5 months.. ;-)
Alain Briot
pro member
Ben,
Sounds complicated but it looks like it's going in the right direction.
Good luck with your permits
Sounds complicated but it looks like it's going in the right direction.
Good luck with your permits