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1 Week with the 5D

Don Lashier

New member
> I realized I'd just taken my AMBIEN

Don, are you sure that was ambien you took? ;)

If so, I want some - sounds like fun. I just used a little Lanzaga Rioja tonight.

- DL
 
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dhphoto

New member
Don Shreve said:
Got it to use my architecutal lenses on, the 1DS is too bluky, gets in the way of the rise & fall..
Anyway, seems the AWB is pretty hit & miss. Under a tungsten light bulb, the AWB was orange, under tungsten setting it was deep yellow. Yet the window was blue. Hmmm.
Alos experimented with the user settings for sharpness, contast & saturatiuon.
Checking into noise present at iso 50/100/400. Then turned the noise redcuion to ON to compare.
Long write times to accomodte that matching black exposure.
THen waided through the looks unique to each to try some experimenting,leave the Sharpmness at default.
'Setting 1 is defalut Sharpness, added contrat & adedd Sautatuom.
Setting 2 is Defauldt Sharpnsses, add one saturation, one on contrat,
Set 3 is Default Sharpmness, add two contrast and add two saturation.
Find some subjects,,maybe female police officers to test these new looks.
Which cop looks saucier, the hi contrast saturated cop taken at set 3, or the saucy set two.
What fumn...hope the cops are sacucy enouhg to not mind lookng saucy for photo test geeks
They even got these liquidypaper looking motiors to match the liquidy bumpy blue greay worn key board under my crocodylian fingers/toes.
Should be called LIQUID FORUMS

After attempting to read this before bedtime, I realized I'd just taken my AMBIEN, got sidtracked by the computer before i got to the bedroom..KInda strange typing on liquid paper moniors with blue/grey mottled kepbards & gnarly old crckdyle hands...

Wonder If I'll be able to make senese oout of this after 10 hours sleep? Maybe the pages will stop floating by tomorrow morning.

Have you ever considered scanning your post before you submit it?

Have you ever read the manual and considered using RAW, or at least a custom white balance?
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
dhphoto said:
Have you ever considered scanning your post before you submit it?

Have you ever read the manual and considered using RAW, or at least a custom white balance?
Hi David
Despite English is not my mother's language, I'm with Don L on this one!
If you look at Don Shreve's web site, you'll see that he's a real pro photog, he may be had too much work and needed a real rest or cool down his AMBIEN consumption...
Or may be just a fun piece of this famous British humor (humour?)
Good to have some laughs sometimes

All the best
PS and that suggestion of "Liquid Forum" is an idea I like, some place where could share some fun (but legal!) experiences...
Like this one on Jan luursema website http://www.janluursema.nl/pics/portfolio/animal/CRW_9504.htm
Will talk about it with Asher when he'll be back...
 
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dhphoto

New member
Nicolas Claris said:
Hi David
Despite English is not my mother's language, I'm with Don L on this one!
If you look at Don Shreve's web site, you'll see that he's a real pro photog, he may be had too much work and needed a real rest or cool down his AMBIEN consumption...
Or may be just a fun piece of this famous British humor (humour?)
Good to have some laughs sometimes

All the best
PS and that suggestion of "Liquid Forum" is an idea I like, some place where could share some fun (but legal!) experiences...
Like this one on Jan luursema website http://www.janluursema.nl/pics/portfolio/animal/CRW_9504.htm
Will talk about it with Asher when he'll be back...

I'm surprised you want to encourage largely-illegible and poorly-informed postings, but you're the administrator so I guess you know what you want

Guess I'll just skip this one then
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
dhphoto said:
I'm surprised you want to encourage largely-illegible and poorly-informed postings, but you're the administrator so I guess you know what you want

Guess I'll just skip this one then
David
OPF policy is to let everyone post here provided that poster keeps nice to each other.
Obviously Don Shreve is a pro and knows what he's talking about, I (think I) understand his post as I've already felt that strange feeling when after many days and nights of hardwork my brain becomes "liquid" and I better go to sleep.
May be my understanding is wrong because my English is too poor, but at least it would be fair then to answer him with more "humoristic" wording ;-)
I am not the only administrator here, and I would like to make you sure that we all wish to build a pro forum.
Sometimes, during a shoot, while everybody seems to be too stressed, I like to say some things that make everyone laugh, after that we may concentrate better for our work... just a way for a better working time...

Have a nice week-end!
 

Don Shreve

pro member
OK. On the color temp. observations, I'm surprised that AWB & tungsten aren't that different, and both are incorrect. Obviously the way to correct for yellow is to add blue. OR to get blue, subtract yellow. SO, if the room was still yellow, why did the outside light turn blue? It's contradictory. I sold my color meter when I went digital. So I can't say what the actual color temperature of the room light was.
Also, it seems there is more shadow noise than in the 5D I tested from Canon.
And I did have a couple of hot pixels during long exposures, but they weren't in the same place consistently across the sensor.
I'm making sure this camera will fill the bill before I put the 1DS up for sale. I'll likely get the next generation of that camera if/when it comes out later in the year.

BTW, yesterday was the first day off I've had in 3 weeks. (It's great to have work, take it when you can get it!) I hadn't been sleeping well, and I bought a new pillow. I hadn't even remebered posting until I saw the board this morning. Yes, it was ONLY Ambien, I gave all that other stuff up quite a long time ago...
My apologies for blending in more than you wanted to know about my personal life....I think I'll go hide for a while.
 

Don Shreve

pro member
BTW, I read the manual thoroughly, I shoot exclusivly RAW, and I routinely use custom white balance. I've shot Canon for 30 years, and I do believe I know what I'm doing & how to deal with blended light sources. I was merely testing the camera to see what it was capable of.
Again, my apologies for the embarrasing post.
 

Diane Fields

New member
Don Shreve said:
BTW, I read the manual thoroughly, I shoot exclusivly RAW, and I routinely use custom white balance. I've shot Canon for 30 years, and I do believe I know what I'm doing & how to deal with blended light sources. I was merely testing the camera to see what it was capable of.
Again, my apologies for the embarrasing post.

It was funny--you may not have intended it that way, but that's how I took it also. Don't apologize (altho' I think you can still delete the post if you want--not sure after a period of time).

Don--obviously (I looked at your site) you are a gifted photographer and know your way around shooting and processing, but, in my experience with all the Canon bodies I've had (not any of the 1 series BTW). I found custom WB to work much less well than using a grey/white card (I use the Whibal now), using that as the reference in RAW processing and adjusting from there. No setting seems to work well with tungsten and/or in mixed light.

I know I shoot differently than you--I'm a lowly small partime photographer and do several upholstered furniture mfg. shots in their wholesale showrooms (big international furn. show in High Point, NT twice yearly) and similar. Consequently, since I work with no assistant, have to move lights from room setting to room setting and work on a very constrained time schedule--and everything has to be very portable/no wires---I use the Canon flashes with the STE2--the flashes on stands with umbrellas. I have to work with the lighting in the showrooms--sometimes spots (which 'burn'), sometimes floods, often there are some that are old with bad color and in some instances in freestanding buildings, I may have to deal with some ambient daylight (altho' I try to wait until that influence is as little as possible since it adds nothing to the shots). The only way I've been able to deal with it is to shoot a WB reference--because the color is critical for the fabrics. I've used C1 and RSP with Magne Nilsen's camera profiles from D30 up to the 5D (well, probably BB and then PS7/RAW plugin in early period). I find that shooting in RAW with the 5D gets as close as possible to neutral colors and I use the cllck/WB now instead of setting a custom WB.

You probably know all of this---but in several shoots I've done with the 5D since I bought it late Feb. I just set the settings to neutral (my understanding is that the histo weill reflect as close as possible to RAW file using the neutral setting), AWB, use a Whibal in the first shot of each (since each setting has its own lighting challenges) and click/WB and adjust further from there if necessary. I have never thought Canon's settings approached being correct (as you don't obviously either LOL--maybe the 1 series is better).

Glad you feel better today--there are weeks like that *smile*.

Diane
 

Don Lashier

New member
Don Shreve said:
OK. On the color temp. observations, I'm surprised that AWB & tungsten aren't that different, and both are incorrect. Obviously the way to correct for yellow is to add blue. OR to get blue, subtract yellow. SO, if the room was still yellow, why did the outside light turn blue?

Most likely the dominant room light was tungsten, hence AWB gave a similar setting. The best way to correct these shots is early in the raw converter, by adjusting the color temp settings. If both outdoor view thru window, and interior are visible, it can be difficult to find a happy medium single WB setting. I prefer to use a fill flash in this situation as the WB is similar to outdoors - any lights that are on still show up warm/yellow, but generally this is a pleasing look, and walls etc take on a WB closer to outdoors. In a worst case situtation you can do two raw conversions, each with appropriate WB setting, then layer and mask them in Photoshop.

Don Shreve said:
My apologies for blending in more than you wanted to know about my personal life....I think I'll go hide for a while.

Former RG members like myself know that you are sane and (normally) quite intelligible. I'd suggest staying off the Ambien - it can have all sorts of weird side-effects including sleep driving. Try a glass or two of wine before bed instead, safe and heart healthy.

- DL
 

Anita Saunders

New member
Was there any other source of light apart from tungsten? Sodium lighting is almost irreparable no matter what WB setting you use.

Re Ambien - I also reckmend wino as a alternetive, althogh it stil doe'snt hep the smelling ...
 
Don Lashier said:
Not entirely, see this example
.


That's a good example of what can be done in Raw conversion/postprocessing, however I'm sure that it would have been impossible with only Sodium lighting. You know the location better than me, but I'd wager there was a significant amount of tungsten lighting available.

Nevertheless with a broad-spectrum illuminant there is a lot more that can be done than with a single line-spectrum illuminant, and your example is a very convincing example.

Bart
 
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Don Lashier

New member
> You know the location better than me, but I'd wager there was a significant amount of tungsten lighting available.

I didn't take the photo, but it is apparant that the primary lighting is those sickly orange street lamps - probably high pressure sodium - note the color temp, ~ 2k. The lights that are impossible are the cycling type like metal halides.

- DL
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Don,

The 5D does give beautiful color shooting outside with jpg.

I have, however, stopped using jpgs unless I promise to give files immediately after a shoot.

Once the light is mixed with any artificial light, RAW is the way to go.

For a window to the outside, I'd develop two copies and combine then appropriately.

A WhiBal card in your pocket will allow you to solve most of the color issues.

Re hot pixels: if you can repeat this, maybe you need the sensor replaced.

Asher
 

Ray West

New member
If I remember my Physics lessons, sodium lighting gives a very narrow specrum of light - yellow, and thats it.

I have a high pressure sodium street lamp - the sort that glows mauve on start-up. A couple of nights ago, I took a few shots of an IT8 colour chart, by that lamp's illumination, and moonlight. No matter what you do to it, it remains a monochrome image. Ok, it was only took on a P&S, at highish iso, with a lot of noise, oof, etc., but other than noise, its all yellow, yellowish-grey and black.

Now, if anyone wants to waste some time trying to extract colour information, then the whole rubbishy 8.5mB raw image is here for a few days. http://www.yertiz.com/images/CRW_0239.CRW

(right click and save as, unless you can read what looks like an eastern european thesis...)

Best wishes,

Ray
 
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Tom Wilk

New member
I've got to agree with Ray - under pure sodium lighting, there's basically one narrow band of color temperature. It's basically an orangish-yellow and it isn't flattering. Fortunately, in many situations where sodium lighting is prominent, there is also a fair amount of ambient light from other sources.
 

Don Lashier

New member
Low pressure sodium is monochromatic. High pressure sodium are wider spectrum but still with a very low CRI (~20) except for the less common color corrected ones which are ~65. Judging from the color temp and "correctibility" of the example I posted, I'd guess that the dominant light was standard low CRI HPS.

- DL
 

Ray West

New member
HI Don,

Its a canon powershot s70 - the exif info is there, but I can't see it in dpp, or irfan view, only in cs2., and then not all of it.

I believe that LED's also have narrow colour gamut's too. This may trigger yet more playing about. (thinking along the lines of anaglyphs). One of my ongoing areas of exploration is methods of deriving distances from photos, ideally take a couple of snaps, and process them to get the xyz coordinates of the edges of the object. I am not concerned with existing solutions, 'the journey is the destination'.

I had thought, for the photo posted, that the moonlight would have given some colour capability, but it didn't. It is actually a sox lamp - low pressure, (not high as I said b4) - as shown here http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/SO1%20Introduction.htm

Best wishes,

Ray

(off to get some led spot lights now.....)
 
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