Open Photography Forums  
HOME FORUMS NEWS FAQ SEARCH

Go Back   Open Photography Forums > The Gear > Windows on PC

Windows on PC Win OS running on a non-Mac Platform

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old March 21st, 2007, 09:55 AM
Paul Caldwell Paul Caldwell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 143
Default XP SP2 for 64 bit edition is out

in case you have missed it. Microsoft just released SP2 for the 64 bit edition of XP Professional. 351mb approx.

Paul C
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old September 24th, 2007, 12:53 AM
Mike Bailey Mike Bailey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wisconsin, United States
Posts: 114
Default

Paul,

Way after your announcement, but do you know anywhere that a retail version of SP2 64-bit version of XP can be bought? Via Google, all I can find are OEM versions, and those seem to be getting more rare as Microsoft continues to try to push people into buying Vista. I recently built a machine based on an AMD X2 6000+ and am considering taking a try at moving away from the 32-bit operating systems I installed on it.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old September 24th, 2007, 02:23 AM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,940
Default

Hi Mike,

Why would you not consider buying the OEM version after all? It is the same software as the retail version and it is cheaper.

Re. the 64-bit vs 32-bit OS discussion, the web is filled with many flame wars on that issue. You may gain some speed by using a 64-bit OS and 64-bit aware applications; but stability-wise the 32-bit XP with SP2 is just as stable. And you don't have the associated driver problems of the 64-bit XP.

So once again, what is the reason you are looking into buying/installing the retail verison of 64-bit XP?

Cheers,
__________________
Kind Regards, Cem

flickr
website
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old September 24th, 2007, 03:07 AM
Ray West Ray West is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK - Somerset
Posts: 1,703
Default

Sort of related -

http://www.news.com/2102-1016_3-6209...=st.util.print

some suppliers offering xp pro to corporates without a hassle.
__________________
All images posted in OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated Comment Only or Edit and Repost.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old September 24th, 2007, 08:50 AM
Mike Bailey Mike Bailey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wisconsin, United States
Posts: 114
Default

Ray, thanks for the link. I had noticed that Dell offered XP as an option (32 bit).

Cem, the reasons I was looking for the retail version were two-fold. One is that I could use it to upgrade my Windows 2000 install, and not have to do the whole setup all over again - device drivers not withstanding. And, failing that, I could upgrade the XP 64-bit in the future to Vista 64-bit when it became viable (five years from now?). My understanding is that OEM versions will not upgrade existing operating systems and they in turn are not upgradeable. So maybe an OEM version can be bought for $100 or so, but when it's time to upgrade, if the hardware is still acceptable, then it's install from scratch. I can do that well enough, but it's at best a frustrating experience that I don't williingly embrace.

Mostly I'm comfortable with XP and the /3GB switch to get enough memory space for CS2, but when I put together my last machine I got two matched pairs of 1 gig memory sticks, so have 4 gig in the machine along with the AMD 64 X2 6000+ and that's one of the reasons I'm looking at a 64-bit operating system, to eventually be able to use all the memory and more someday.

Right now I'm not looking at it as a production environment because of the difficulty in getting all the drivers together and then getting the necessary software to all work, but it's part of a long-term plan/hope/foolishness on my part.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old September 24th, 2007, 09:05 AM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bailey View Post
....One is that I could use it to upgrade my Windows 2000 install, and not have to do the whole setup all over again - device drivers not withstanding. And, failing that, I could upgrade the XP 64-bit in the future to Vista 64-bit when it became viable (five years from now?). My understanding is that OEM versions will not upgrade existing operating systems and they in turn are not upgradeable. So maybe an OEM version can be bought for $100 or so, but when it's time to upgrade, if the hardware is still acceptable, then it's install from scratch. I can do that well enough, but it's at best a frustrating experience that I don't williingly embrace...
Hi Mike,

Please don't go down that route! Upgrading a Windows OS is much more painful compared to a clean install of the new OS. A new Windows XP Pro install takes around 30 mins on a computer like yours. After that, installing the application s/w can take some 1-2 hours. Some fine tuning and you are done within 4 hours, max. Believe me, I do this 2-3 times a year (ie install new XP on new/upgraded hardware).

Also, IIRC, it is not possible to upgrade the XP-64 Pro to Vista-64. You must do a clean install anyway. See this quote from the following MS link:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...radepaths.mspx

Quote:
If you are currently using Windows 2000 Professional or Windows XP Professional x64, you are eligible for an upgrade copy to a corresponding or better edition of Windows Vista, but a clean install is required.
I hope this helps.

Cheers,
__________________
Kind Regards, Cem

flickr
website
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old September 24th, 2007, 10:43 AM
Mike Bailey Mike Bailey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wisconsin, United States
Posts: 114
Default

Cem,

Oh well... so much for future upgrading. I install operatiing systems less than you, only once or twice a year, and I do it both as upgrades and clean installs. Either way seems to take about as long in the end. I tend to keep my systems as simple as possible, so upgrading isn't the nightmare it could be. But knowing that there won't be any kind of upgrade route to Vista 64 might steer me toward the OEM version of XP 64.

I'm just feeling a bit worn out after putting this computer together then spending time in the past few days installing both Windows Pro and Windows XP on it. All that's the easy part compared to the fine tuning! But that goes on forever I guess. Maybe I'm too fussy about what I allow to run on a computer I have to spend a lot of time working on.

So far this adding XP 64 is theoretical, but I'm interested. Guess that'd mean a three-operating system computer. I partitioned with that possibility when I was setting up the hard drives just in case.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old September 24th, 2007, 11:03 AM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,940
Default

Mike,

Did you consider the following possibility at all? Let me explain.

In the "olden" days, I had some 4-5 OSes installed on one machine for doing different things. For example, I once had the following setup:
1) Daily OS: Surfing, Email, Office, etc
2) Backup OS: For backing up partitions, rescuing crashed systems, etc
3) NLE OS: FOr Non-Linear Video editing (Avid, Premiere)
4) Test OS: For trying out new/beta software before distrupting the operational OSes
5) Photography OS: Adobe PS, etc
6+) Misc: Such as Linux, etc

Nowadays, I have started using virtual machines to my utter satisfaction. I have the VMWare Workstation for that, although one can also use the Virtual PC or the VMWare Server as free alternatives. So I have only two physical installations now:
1) Daily OS: Surfing, Email, Office, etc
2) Backup OS: For backing up partitions, rescuing crashed systems, etc

All the rest are virtual machines. I start with a basic installation of the XP Pro in a VM. Once it is installed and the Windows update has done its job, and the drivers are installed along with the virus scanner and the firewall, I then have a clean system. Since this is a VM, I can clone it easily as a starting point for different purposes. Using VMWare Workstation, I can have multiple "snapshots" during operational use, which means that I can roll back to any past situation if a new piece of software disturbs things. With the free VM s/w, you have only one snapshot possibility.

Consider this route as a possibility. BTW, you can install XP Pro-64 as a guest OS under a XP Pro-32 Host OS (but this does not solve the 3GB limit issue). You can also install the XP Pro-64 as your host and have multiple XP Pro-32 versions, even Vista if you want.

HTH.

Cheers,
__________________
Kind Regards, Cem

flickr
website
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old September 25th, 2007, 03:01 AM
Georg R. Baumann Georg R. Baumann is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,482
Default

A little OT: Personally I find it ridiculous what the Industry offers us. In the year 2007 I still can not have a PC with something like 128 Gig Ram or so, hybrids (solid state and RAM) are rare and too expensive.

Can you believe it? The wellknown Filmcomposer Hans Zimmer had his partner write him a 64 bit application from scratch to handle his samle library needs, because the stuff on offer is too clumsy, so your man bit the bullet and did just that. (What a task!) They used their own app. on the latest Pirates of the C.

I know that PS does not use more than 3 Gig and also does not really benefit from stuff such as 8 physical cores, however, other applications would, but we still are in the stranglehold of the salami tactics industry, slice and dice, feed us peanuts when we want a filet steak.

I am very interested to see what leopard will bring for real world improvements. May be I really should get myself a Mac instead of another PC.

Rant mode of.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old September 25th, 2007, 03:50 AM
Mike Bailey Mike Bailey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wisconsin, United States
Posts: 114
Default

Cem,

All that makes my head hurt! Just kidding... but VMWare is intriguing. I've heard of it for years, but never looked into it. My approach is to do frequent backups with Acronis True Image. The bootable Linux CD is a life-saver sometimes because fiddling/experimentation sometimes results in getting things really screwed up. It's also sometimes the cleanest way to get rid of poorly written or beta software.

I think George has it right in that we aren't really given a lot of choices in our salami which is one of the reasons I prefer to cook my own as much as possible.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old September 25th, 2007, 04:04 AM
Georg R. Baumann Georg R. Baumann is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bailey View Post
I think George has it right in that we aren't really given a lot of choices in our salami which is one of the reasons I prefer to cook my own as much as possible.
"When I was young" <grins>, I did not mind spending days and weeks tweaking systems (talk about times where motherboards still had to be configured with jumpers), now that I am old (LOL) I hate that ****.

It still is the same like 20 years ago, a decent system costs something like 18K.

Which is a high capital investment for a box in the corner, on the other hand.... 300x60=18K, so for 300 per month you would have a system that should be good for 5 years.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old September 25th, 2007, 04:06 AM
Ray West Ray West is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK - Somerset
Posts: 1,703
Default

Hi Georg

Quote:
feed us peanuts when we want a filet steak.
But you/us want the fillet steak at the peanut price. ;-)

The pc is a general purpose tool - a bit like the early 'black and decker drills'. Us oldies remember the attachments for them - circular saw, sanders, etc. Rubbish, weren't they? The saws burnt out the motors, Now, you have a B&D pc, when you really need a specialist machine for what you want to do, but as such it will be expensive, until the mass of users grow. (Think game machine market).

Just wait a few years, it will be here, maybe at a price we can afford, but by then we will need something better, and still cheaper.

Best wishes,

Ray
__________________
All images posted in OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated Comment Only or Edit and Repost.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old September 25th, 2007, 04:32 AM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bailey View Post
Cem,

All that makes my head hurt! Just kidding... but VMWare is intriguing. I've heard of it for years, but never looked into it. My approach is to do frequent backups with Acronis True Image. The bootable Linux CD is a life-saver sometimes because fiddling/experimentation sometimes results in getting things really screwed up. It's also sometimes the cleanest way to get rid of poorly written or beta software.

I think George has it right in that we aren't really given a lot of choices in our salami which is one of the reasons I prefer to cook my own as much as possible.

Mike
Hi Mike,

If you do not need the multiple OS instances like I do, then your method of doing image backups will work well, stick to it. But I still recommend giving VMWare a trial run just to get a feeling about it. Who knows, you might like it.

Although I understand perfectly well where Georg and you are coming from and concur with the spirit of the issue, I will disagree slightly on semantics.
To my mind, being able to cook your own is about having a choice after all <smile>.

Cheers,
__________________
Kind Regards, Cem

flickr
website
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old September 25th, 2007, 12:05 PM
Georg R. Baumann Georg R. Baumann is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cem Usakligil View Post
Although I understand perfectly well where Georg and you are coming from ....
Are you sure? <smile>

Quote:
IDG News Service
Intel is also in the final stages of a corporate reorganization that included the layoffs of thousands of workers in 2006, and at least 1,800 more layoffs planned for August. The company incurred restructuring charges of $82 million during the most recent quarter as it continued to adjust to the changes, Intel said on Tuesday
Two days ago on the irish news it was announced with a "great astonishement" that Intel cuts Jobs in Ireland due to the bad results in Flash memory, yeah right....

Quote:
Those flash memory results helped to push Intel's gross margin down to 46.9 percent for the quarter, lower than the company's goal of 48 percent, Intel CFO Andy Bryant said during the call.

Bryant predicted the company would quickly rebound in the third quarter, forecasting a gross margin of 52 percent and revenue between $9.0 billion and $9.6 billion. If Intel met the top end of that goal, it would match the Wall Street estimate of $9.36 billion and would beat its own revenue mark of $8.74 billion for the third quarter last year.
Of course, overall revenue growth is down from 6.7 to something like 2.5 or so (Gartner Group) compared to 2006, but those who really believe the tenor that this is due to a war between Intel and AMD did miss their wake up call.

Sorry for that rant, but I just about had it with that stock market bullshit! Put them all into a high security prison in AZ over the next 4 weeks, chances are you hit the right ones on something like 85%!

Sure, "we" Joe Soap on the road do not hear about that, all we get is news that the wheat price doubnled from last April, then again, hey, the french revolution started on bread prices at the end of the day. <grins>

"Rip off Republic" was a TV series last year on TV here, excellent stuff!

On a political level, what Opposition? There is a new class of politicians in Europe, and they follow a more scientology driven ethic.

<deep breath> ....back to my detachment exercises.... <grins>
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old September 25th, 2007, 03:56 PM
Georg R. Baumann Georg R. Baumann is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,482
Default

.... sorry....

just a feckin "!^!")%R$+ day.... SIGH
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:35 PM.


Posting images or text grants license to OPF, yet of such remain with its creator. Still, all assembled discussion 2006-2017 Asher Kelman (all rights reserved) Posts with new theme or unusual image might be moved/copied to a new thread!