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moral dilemma

Nicolas Genette

pro member
Hi,

I have a moral dilemma and wish your help on this.
Like you may know, I do, and only do, limited fine art prints, sold in art galleries. I have no other photographic activity, I don't print unsigned/unnumbered prints beside limited ones. This has always been an ethical path for me, all with respect for my customers who buy limited prints at a certain price and don't want to see same photography elsewhere in another form.

So, the question ...
A musician artist asked me one of my photography for their next album cover. I would normally say no, as usual in such demand, but I like what they do, and it would be from one artist to another one, not for low priced print, advertising or such stuff. So I dunno what to do ...

I greatly appreciate discussions on these boards, so any insight on this, mattes ?
Thanks
Nicolas
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Hi Nicholas.

To me, morality is from the heart, not the rational voices of your mind. One sleeps alone. Do what shall enable you to live in peace with yourself. And sleep a child's sleep.

Go with your heart in this.

Best.
 
Hi,

I have a moral dilemma and wish your help on this.
Like you may know, I do, and only do, limited fine art prints, sold in art galleries. I have no other photographic activity, I don't print unsigned/unnumbered prints beside limited ones. This has always been an ethical path for me, all with respect for my customers who buy limited prints at a certain price and don't want to see same photography elsewhere in another form.

So, the question ...
A musician artist asked me one of my photography for their next album cover.

Hi Nicolas,

Is that an existing image, which you have already sold to someone? If so, why not try and make a new one, in the same style, dedicated for this purpose?

Cheers,
Bart
 

Nicolas Genette

pro member
Hi Bart, yes it is an existing one, which has ever been sold.
Indeed I may have others from this session that could make it, will have a look. But not sure it is more "ethic" ... lol
Thanks
 
Nicolas, If you had a postcard with the Mona Lisa on it, it would not make the Mona Lisa less valuable to own. Several famous photographers have their images published in books. Does that make the images in the book, limited editions? no.. but they do make those works more known and the more famous the work, the more the limited editions will be worth as they become sought after., If I owned a photo by Henri Cartier Bresson that was in a book or a magazine, I would love to show people that I owned a real one, that he touched and signed with his own hand.

I would think that if you put your work on this cd cover, the people that own the limited edition ones, would be proud to own the signed originals.

If it's the idea of putting it on a cd, think William Eggleston, many of his photos appeared on music albums, it helped him become known. Check out the link:

http://blakeandrews.blogspot.ca/2009/07/william-egglestons-album-cover-guide.html

Robert Mapplethorpe did album cover for Patti Smith
Eugene Smith did album cover for Thelonious Monk
Sugimoto did the U2 album cover with the stipulation that no text appear on the image, so only on the plastic that covered the album, once it was taken off, only the photo showed.


Now, how commercial you'd like to go with your work is another matter but I do not think it would hurt the value of your client's photos. Ethical? That would be a personal thing. I think if the artist is one you'd like to help out and an artist you believe in, and you stand behind his/her work, then there should be no problem. If it were only a question of making money, I would say that I, personally would not do it. If it were for someone I believed in and wanted to help out? In a heartbeat!
 

Nicolas Genette

pro member
Thanks Maggie, you are totally right I think. And it's not like selling 10$ prints ...
I wouldn't take any money for this, my business is in limited prints and I don't care other businesses (I have the luxury to have the choice). Being a between artists arrangment I also think it is less a problem. I think I will just do it then !
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Morals schmorals!!!

Hi Bart, yes it is an existing one, which has ever been sold.
Indeed I may have others from this session that could make it, will have a look. But not sure it is more "ethic" ... lol
Thanks

Nicolas,

What do you mean by "which has ever been sold"? Do you mean that it's never been sold?

asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Nicolas,

The guy you shave with likely has a conflict of interest, LOL! :)

So can you, in all good conscience, use an picture of yours for other commercial purposes besides fine art prints? Well the only commitment inherent in selling a limited edition of signed prints is that you will not offer that entity in that form again, beyond the copies already in the series. That's the extent of our promise!

In any case, it's not an issue of morality, which I consider has more to do with deceiving in personal intimate matters where there's an inherent rule such as, "don't sleep with your family members except your spouse", "kids in your scout pack" or "your friends wife". It also would cover taking dangerous public health short cuts in, for example, supplying tainted food to milk to stores and the like. So morality seems to be more about our personal intimacy and safety in family ties and community lifelines.

Ethics is, I'd offer, might best considered a matter of business commerce and power. So there, it's not what one is strong enough to do, rather, it's what one should do. So conflict of interest is unethical. A psychiatrist having sex with his patient is unethical. These may also be illegal but first of all they break the boundaries of trust in a commercial transaction.

Here, the issues are much, much, more trivial! I cannot see that it could ever be a moral problem. It can't even rise to an issue of ethics. you have never committed to not having posters of your work for an exhibition or to welcome the Olympics or for that matter an album cover. You can advertise your own work, make pamphlets or have business cards with the same pictures you sell as a limited edition. It's hardly that form and certainly not as unique.

So I'd go ahead with a clear conscience; you've deceived no one! Just have him insert a link to your website for those interested in your art!

Asher

An academic approach on morals v. ethics would argue that morals are those codified rules in our writings and customs and ethics are the thoughts and rationale behind the sets of moral rules we use as tools to relate, one to another. However, this does not tell you what's practical!
 
Asher, I agree,

I have a clause at the bottom of my authenticity certificates that explains that I hold the copyright to all my images and I may use them in books, postcards, or other publicity. These do not hold any intrinsic value yet may augment the value of the signed original limited editions. One of my images was used as a backdrop for a Dance piece and I have since sold 2 of them as they were recognized. I just had one of my photos chosen to be used as our town's Christmas card and that photo is a limited edition in my portfolio too. I have no qualms at all.

:)
Maggie
 

Nicolas Genette

pro member
Asher, like usual, a lot of great thinking in what you write.
Indeed I didn't saw it like promotion material (specially if I give it for free) so not being competing with the sold limited prints.
Your writing about ethic and moral is also full of good sense.

So I think I'm free to give it (in this particular case) without compromising anything, if not being positive after all.

Many, many thanks to all of you, really helping !
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Good Nicolas ( sorry for misspelling your name the first time ); at least you have got various pieces of advice.

The more you ask, the more you might get!

This for Asher. I do not want to derail Nicolas's thread; but your musings on morality and ethics would make for a very interesting discussion in it's own! The presumption you make is that everyone might share your views on what is moral and/or ethical.

Nicolas, I wish the you the best, however you decide to proceed.

Kindest regards.

p.s. I shave alone. Always have, always shall. Else grow a beard.
 
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