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Blackhawk Down........

ErikJonas

Banned
I killed my system....A bit too much to go into....I am hoping the files on my drive are still in tact.I am trying to get back on line.Right now i am with out a computer....All of my 2007 and 2008 files were backed up and most of my 2009 files but not all....

My neighbor is a Boeing Engineer and a computer programer hes helping me as his time allows.The system will not boot and will not go into safe mode...Files do load and he says thats a good thing. The files might be in the folders and safe.

I bought a 500 gig drive and need to set the OS up on that...I also bought a case to put the old drive into and it hooks up by way of a USB cable.If anyone understands what i'm talking about.I am hoping to access the drive that way and transfer the files onto the new drive but at this time i do not know how exstensive the damage is to the OS or drive. Just that it will not boot.

I dont have much computer knowledge or anyone to help me other then the neighbor.I am on my moms computer. My biggest concern id the few thousand files on my drive.The OS i use is XP... Today i will try to set up XP on the new 500 gig drive i got....Of concern to me is the drive i needed was a IDE drive...Staples sold me a PATA drive and told me its the same connection as the IDE drive,same cables but that does not seem right..But i dont know i just have to find someone that knows and ask them...

I have not slept much the past 2 days just being very stressed that i may of lost some files...I am hoping once the new drive is up and going i can connect to the old one with the USB cable and pull the files off of it and the FIRST thing i will do is all gets copied to my back up drive. IF i can get to them that is....I also have to buy a used cd drive as i dont have one.

Most likely it will be a few more days before i have a computer and net access..I have a shoot wednesday with a girl named Monica and wont be able to even down load the files.
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Erik,

Staples sold me a PATA drive and told me its the same connection as the IDE drive,same cables but that does not seem right..But i dont know i just have to find someone that knows and ask them...
PATA (Parallel ATA) is the new name for the traditional ATA interface, which is the traditional interface for IDE drives. (The new name was adopted to make a clearer contrast with the newer Serial ATA interface, SATA, also used for IDE drives.)

IDE implies far more than the physical/electrical interface, but essentially all ATA-interface drives have been IDE for many years.

I would assume that the drive they sold you is in fact an IDE drive, but the designation PATA emphasizes the interface - making clear that it is not SATA (getting more popular today). Basically, they don't mention it is IDE, since essentially all (P)ATA and SATA interface drives are.

Hope you get back on the air.

Best regards,

Doug
 

StuartRae

New member
Hi Erik,

Sorry to hear about your trouble. Do you get any error messages while trying to boot?
I had a similar problem a while ago when my HD developed some bad sectors just where the OS was stored. I managed to get the data back though. Let's hope all goes well.

Regards,

Stuart
 

ErikJonas

Banned
Hi Erik,

Sorry to hear about your trouble. Do you get any error messages while trying to boot?
I had a similar problem a while ago when my HD developed some bad sectors just where the OS was stored. I managed to get the data back though. Let's hope all goes well.

Regards,

Stuart

Blue screen of death if you want to call that a error message lol....
 

Nigel Allan

Member
Generally the operating system and the data are two entirely separate entities. Your OS can become corrupt and not boot for a whole range of reasons, but usually this has zero impact on stored data and even reloading xp onto the same drive with a new master boot record etc will only overwrite windows stuff and not stored files elsewhere on the disk.

My advice is to get the drive copied or mirrored completely (using something like Norton Ghost) so you know all the data is stored and retirvable and then you can probably go ahead and reload windows and overwrite the existing OS installation.

You maybe need to try and reload windows from your disk if you have it and try recovery console and then use the DOS command like FIXMBR which means fix master boot record which might restore the reason you are not getting into windows at all - someone else can explain this better than I. But I am absolutely certain your data will be ok unless the drive exploded or caught fire or something dramatic like this
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Erik,

I believe I can solve your problem and rescue your files with the directories intact, if we are lucky! I'm getting the Prosoft PC 3 Rescue software and will do everything to recover your files. I'll clone the drive and then return the drive immediately I've cloned it and work on the copy. Will send mailing instructions by PM.

Asher
 
The system will not boot and will not go into safe mode...Files do load and he says thats a good thing. The files might be in the folders and safe.

Hi Erik,

Either the drive hardware failed (would not load files then) or the operating system files got corrupted. It really depends on what actually happens during startup.

When the drive itself is functional, which by the sound of what you told it is, then the data/image files are probably restorable (unless partition tables got damaged and files were subsequently overwritten). The best course for action is not to use the drive until it's known what the actual problem is. Trying to boot from it might damage files beyond repair.

My advice is to install a new IDE (that's the integrated connection type) drive and install the operating system on that. After installing other software that you might wish, try copying the data files from your old drive via the external housing/connector you seem to have gotten.

Good luck.
Bart
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Erik,

No matter how you want to proceed, do not try to boot up the computer with that drive in it! Do not do anything with the computer while that drive is in it. If you do, then it's likely that more data will be written to the drive in what seems to be empty space but that will scramble your files further.

Asher
 

ErikJonas

Banned
.................

heres what i am doing....The drive a 160 gig is pulled..In is the new drive my mom got for me a 500 gig drive....And a used cd burner i was able to get from a local shop for $10.00..I am going to now try to instal Xp off the upgrade cd,not knowing at all what i am doing...BLAH...I plugged in the new drive just as the old one was and sey the pin thing up,the pin thing that determines if its slave or master or whatever....I set that the same on the new drive as it was the old.So i hope ive done everything right...I was told XP is simple it instals itself......

The old drive is out,that will be put into a external IDE enclosure or IDE drive enclosure and using a USB connection from that enclosure i am going to see what i can see on that drive an go from there....

Asher thankyou for the offer.If need be we can try that but first its best to explore my other options....

All thats in my case right now is the new drive and the CD burner.Now i just hope loading XP is as simple as people have been telling me cause i'm not going to know what to to on various promps that come up........Erik...
 

ErikJonas

Banned
....................

Bart....I tried the External case...For whatever reason when i plug in the USB cable the computer shows a J drive but does not show its seeing anything. It shows it as blank. Could this be a driver issue? I am not going to think yet that its needing a recovery program just yet. I am out about 10 shoots...10 times where i went out taking pictures. Its not a great deal but there are some treasured images at stake. And a lot of photo shopped images that add up to many hours of work.

And i swear my 750 gig back up drive is looking at me like "I told you to use me regularly" I'm getting a guilt trip from my back up drive...

I'm just glad i have o lot of my images backed up.....

I still can not get the OS installed on the new 500 gig drive.....Sigh...So theres no light at the end of the tunnel....Its frustrating cause i have all the tools i just cant put them together.I am without a computer other then limited use on this one....
 
Bart....I tried the External case...For whatever reason when i plug in the USB cable the computer shows a J drive but does not show its seeing anything. It shows it as blank. Could this be a driver issue?

Strange, unless the partition table info got wiped or other logical info got changed. Does the "blanc" drive show the correct available size, or is available size zero? Specific drivers are usually not required (generic drivers are going to be used), but it could depend on the casing used.

It's hard to diagnose without direct access and special software tools. I wouldn't experiment with it, it might damage the logical structure. A (sector by sector) drive copy needs to be made first with a good partitioning software tool before doing anything else. I use Paragon Partition Manager 10, Professional version, for such low level drive manipulation tasks, but it's not something for casual use.

Good luck,
Bart
 

ErikJonas

Banned
................

Hi Bart....

Thanks....When i checked the drive properties it shows the drive as 0....So its not reading any size to the drive at all...

I have no way to down load my memory cards from the shoot i did with Monica as i have no computer right now.The drive i had for now is a loss i have no money to deal with either problem so until i can get this straightened out i'm just going to put the camera away.
 

ErikJonas

Banned
..................

Drive damage....

E-man Data Recovery has determined that the drive is physically damaged. A diagnostic will cost me $79.00....If the drive is not damaged beyond repair which he showed me one that was. The data recovery will cost me between $500 and $2,500

The owner of E-man data recovery i have known for some time and trust him fully. It will be some time before i can pay for the data recovery...So hopefully anyone who does not have there stuff backed up if they are reading this does so right away...Had i backed my stuff up directly this would not be such a huge blow.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Is the drive spinning up? Does it make clicks or other noises? Why did the guy think it was drive failure?

Asher
 
Is the drive spinning up? Does it make clicks or other noises? Why did the guy think it was drive failure?

Yes, good questions. When the drive is still spinning without clicking noises, there may be a little hope left. IDE drives hooked up to the system's internal IDE cabling (not to the external casing) may be (partially) recovered by using a program called "Spinrite" if the problem is in the magnetic layer. In principle it can't hurt the file structure because it only approaches the drive as a magnetic surface, and is agnostic about data structures. The program was once used by NASA on one of the shuttle missions to repair a failing drive.

If the drive however makes clicking noises, then there is probably physical damage and the drive is best not spinned up anymore. I've had such a case once where lubricant was spilling over the platters, and while Spinrite restored some of the data it would have taken many days to get the rest of the data revived, but that would have heated up the drive and more oil would spread. I had backups so I replaced that drive and dumped the failing one to save time.

Cheers,
Bart
 

ErikJonas

Banned
...........

Okay....The drive is spinning and not making any noise at all not even a slight bit. Asher has given me some tech support on the phone and he's listened to the drive and he seems to be more then a bit convinced that theres nothing wrong with the drive.

My neighbor the engineer i have mentioned before is stopping by later.Just now in talking to him on the phone he mentioned spin rite and said it was the best possible program.

Doing a recovery i'm a bit nervous as this is a used drive, i dont want to recover some virus ot trojan.....

This is kind of becoming a roller coaster ride....I was very sad when the data recovery place told me the drive was damaged but now after talking to Asher who seems convinced its not the case.

I have'nt slept well in the last 3 nights.....This drive has all my images from may to current...Images prior to may are backed up on my 750 gig Maxtor portable drive. BUT just the original files and not the edited ones. SOME of the edited ones but not all of them....I have to check my on line Costco count some may have been uploaded to that. You can upload full meg images.

Thanks again for the help and in put on this matter.....
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Erik,

Things are hardly ever as good as one hopes but take heart that they're usually not as bad as we fear!


Asher
 

StuartRae

New member
Hi Erik,

I really hope you get the problem sorted.

A word of warning about Spinrite. It recovers data back to the same disk. It reads data at sector level and then performs repeated read/writes of random patterns to the sector to determine if it is sound before re-writing the original data. If the disk fails again while Spinrite is accessing it you're worse off than when you started. Even if you successfully recover (some of) your data you MUST NOT use the disk again - it's sure to fail again in the near future.

Another couple of points:

You mentioned re-loading Windows from an 'update' CD. If that's what I think it is you can't do a full install of Windows from it.

When installing a PATA (IDE) drive it's easy to get the connector the wrong way round. The cable will be marked for pin 1 (usually a red stripe) and pin 1 on the disk is the one nearest to the power supply socket.

Best of luck,

Stuart
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Stuart,


Spinrite is good for mapping drives to be used, bypassing weak track portions. But I'd think that new drive firmware does this already!

Spinrite should not, IMHO be the first step in recovery. What's needed is to clone that drive and to do that without writing on that. One such software choice is Data Rescue PV Version 3 by Prosoft Engneering. t comes with as a bootable CD and then it clones the troubled drive and only then works on the copy not the original.

That's the best approach. One can also use Spinrite if that fails to bring back the files or to see if there's more.

Good points about the connectors! Now if the cable is the wrong way, will t still appear on the desktop n a PC?

Asher.
Hi Erik,

I really hope you get the problem sorted.

A word of warning about Spinrite. It recovers data back to the same disk. It reads data at sector level and then performs repeated read/writes of random patterns to the sector to determine if it is sound before re-writing the original data. If the disk fails again while Spinrite is accessing it you're worse off than when you started. Even if you successfully recover (some of) your data you MUST NOT use the disk again - it's sure to fail again in the near future.

Another couple of points:

You mentioned re-loading Windows from an 'update' CD. If that's what I think it is you can't do a full install of Windows from it.

When installing a PATA (IDE) drive it's easy to get the connector the wrong way round. The cable will be marked for pin 1 (usually a red stripe) and pin 1 on the disk is the one nearest to the power supply socket.

Best of luck,

Stuart
 

StuartRae

New member
Hi Asher,

Yes, the sensible approach is to clone the disk and work on that.

if the cable is the wrong way, will t still appear on the desktop n a PC?

No. IIRC it's not even recognised by the BIOS.
BTW, the two remarks I made were intended as advice after the event of data recovery.

Now returning to installing the old disk as a USB device an another PC.

It surprises me that if the disk isn't completely stuffed (and it isn't because Windows recognised it) that it appears empty.
I don't know what version of XP Erik is using, but be aware that a disk introduced as 'dynamic' on an XP Pro system will be recognised on an XP Home system but will appear to be empty.

Go to the Desktop, right click on the My Computer icon, select Manage, open up Storage and select Disk Management. This will give you a bit more info about the disk.

A Dynamic disk can only be converted to a Basic disk by re-formatting.

it comes with as a bootable CD

You may need to go into BIOS to enable Boot from CD.

Fingers crossed,

Stuart
 

ErikJonas

Banned
.......................

Hey guys...Thanks for the additional input. I'm trying to follow it all not really knowing anything about computers lol....

Okay...So i was in at Costco and one of the guys in the photo department told me to go to Best Buy about my drive. So i went and asked them. At Best Buy for no cost they will tell me if the drive is or isnt damaged and if anything is recoverable off of it and they tell me this at no cost. So Asher there goes the $80.00 diagnostic fee. Thankyou Asher for saving me $80.00

Next up on the instal of of the OS on the new drive. The data recovery place told me $170.00 to instal the OS. Another employee at Costco told me he's do it for about $75.00.

Right now i am still **** down,still using my moms computer. While at Costco i also got a big bag of M&Ms as this will help ease the trama of this event =)

Wednesday i will take the drive to Best Buy to see what they can see.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hey guys...Thanks for the additional input. I'm trying to follow it all not really knowing anything about computers lol....

Okay...So i was in at Costco and one of the guys in the photo department told me to go to Best Buy about my drive. So i went and asked them. At Best Buy for no cost they will tell me if the drive is or isnt damaged and if anything is recoverable off of it and they tell me this at no cost. So Asher there goes the $80.00 diagnostic fee. Thankyou Asher for saving me $80.00

Next up on the instal of of the OS on the new drive. The data recovery place told me $170.00 to instal the OS. Another employee at Costco told me he's do it for about $75.00.

Right now i am still **** down,still using my moms computer. While at Costco i also got a big bag of M&Ms as this will help ease the trama of this event =)

Wednesday i will take the drive to Best Buy to see what they can see.

Erik,

Reread what I wrote. No one should touch that drive who does not know what they are doing. They can set up your new drive, that's simple.
 

ErikJonas

Banned
.........

Asher....Geek Squad at Best Buy they are suppose to know what they are doing....Nothings going to be writen to the drive or removed.They are just going to look at it basically an thats okay right?
 

ErikJonas

Banned
...............

Okay...The cost to re-instal my OS was $170.00...But he did agree to do it for trade of a print for him an one for his Tech....BUT....My neighbor Ben came to my resccue...He's the new neighbor. Tonight he came over and re-installed the OS so i am on my new 500 gig drive...AND he gave me a stick of memory so i now have instead of 512 I have 1.5 gigs of memory. Much more stable.

Now theres the matter of my crashed drive...He thinks its recoverable and wants a shot at it. I'm kinda nervous but guess it would not hurt. I dont know. I dont want to have to sell my older now back up digital camera but will have to to pay for the data recovery.

But at least i have a computer!! And was spared the cost of the instal.

The instal took some time cause service pack 3 did weird things and he had to re-instal the OS again but its running smooth....All my windows updates are done and AVG Anti Virus is instaled now i just need to instal Elements and some other programs and transfer my picture files both edited and not onto this drive and i'm on my way back to editing.

Now the last mountain to climb is the crashed drive....
 
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