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Rechargeable Battery Question - discharge completely?

Otto Haring

New member
Some people say that I have to discharge my batteries fully after each wedding before I charge them again to preserve my rechargeable batteries for a long time. Some people say I should never completely discharge my batteries...I use NIMH rechargeable batteries AA for my flash...
So who should I believe...? :)

Do you completely discharge your batteries before you recharge them?
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Otto,

Some people say that I have to discharge my batteries fully after each wedding before I charge them again to preserve my rechargeable batteries for a long time. Some people say I should never completely discharge my batteries...I use NIMH rechargeable batteries AA for my flash...
So who should I believe...? :)
It is not recommended that NiMH cells be periodically fully discharged.

If for any reason you wish to fully discharge NiMH cells, be certain to do so with an apparatus that treats each cell separately. Attempting to fully discharge a battery made of (for example) four NiMH cells (as by allowing it to power a load for a long period) will often result in one or more of the cells going into polarity reversal, which will permanently damage the cell.

Do you completely discharge your batteries before you recharge them?

I have batteries with various kinds of cells. I not discharge my NiMH cells before recharging them.

Best regards,

Doug
 
Some people say that I have to discharge my batteries fully after each wedding before I charge them again to preserve my rechargeable batteries for a long time. Some people say I should never completely discharge my batteries...I use NIMH rechargeable batteries AA for my flash...
So who should I believe...? :)

Do you completely discharge your batteries before you recharge them?

Hi Otto,

NiMH cells do not have a memory effect like NiCd cells do. Therefore you don't need to discharge them fully.

A smart battery charger is recommended because it monitors each cell individually (thus avoiding overcharging), but it must be specifically suited for NiMH cells (a NiCd charger is not suited).

Cheers,
Bart
 

StuartRae

New member
Hi Otto,

As Doug advises you shouldn't attempt to completely discharge NiMH cells. Additionally you shouldn't allow them to become completely discharged when in use with others, as the charged cell(s) will drive the discharged one(s) in reverse. At best this will kill them; at worst they will overheat and 'pop', potentially causing damage to you and your equipment.

Regards,

Stuart
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Do you completely discharge your batteries before you recharge them?

No. As noted, don't do that. Another word: get yourself a battery charger with delta peak end of charge detection, that will make the most difference in the life of your batteries.
 

Martin Evans

New member
Good move! A smart charger costs more to buy, but I am now convinced that it's worth it in prolonging the life of rechargeables.

Somewhere I have read that NiMH cells are also damaged by over-charging. Another reason to get a smart charger. I know that I am getting much longer life out of run-of-the-mill rechargeables by stopping the charge just a bit before they are fully charged.

Martin
 
Somewhere I have read that NiMH cells are also damaged by over-charging. Another reason to get a smart charger. I know that I am getting much longer life out of run-of-the-mill rechargeables by stopping the charge just a bit before they are fully charged.

Hi Martin,

With a really smart charger (one that also monitors temperature) you can fully charge the batteries. The first 80 or so percent of the charging operation is mostly converted into a higher charge capacity, but then for the remaining 20% more and more energy is wasted in heat build up. The heat itself is supposed to be detrimental for the cell if it gets too high. Therefore the better smart chargers do not only look for a delta Voltage peak, but also regulate the charging current (mA) based on the cell itself and the point on the charge curve. This information is often not available for average chargers, but some of the better brands do specify these characteristics (albeit sometimes in terms like "multiple overcharging protection").

Cheers,
Bart
 

Martin Evans

New member
Hello Bart,

I entirely agree. I have been using a BL-700 charger since buying a set of eneloops for my Pentax K-x about 6 months ago. The spec declares that it has -dV and overheat detection.

The BL-700 switches to "fully charged" when a cell voltage reaches 1.49 to 1.50, at which point the cells are warm but not hot (200 mA charging current). I choose to end the charge for all cells at the point when just one cell displays "Full", rather than trying to squeeze another 0.02 volt into the remainder (the charger is normally sitting on my desk where I can glance at it from time to time).

One thing that I am uneasy about, even with this good smart charger, is that the charge continues, at 5% of the initial current, when the cell has reached "Full". This, of course, is a hangover from the old Nickel-Cadmium (Nicad or NiCd) cells, where a trickle charge of C/20 was recommended. From what I have read, trickle charging a full NiMH cell is not recommended, and may cause some over-charge damage. I'm no expert on this; it's just what I remember reading somewhere.

My over-cautious attitude dates from my first (and only) mobile/cell phone, which I bought in 2001. It uses AAA-Long NiMH cells. The instructions told me to fully charge overnight, rest and then give the cells another full charge. I think that the instructions had not been re-written since the manufacturer (Motorola) probably switched to NiMH from Nicads. This treatment effectively destroyed the cells within a month! When I took them out they were brown and bulgy! They were a non-standard size, about 6 mm longer than AAA cells. I bought some standard cells, soldered a 6 mm brass extension on their ends, never charged the phone for longer than 45 minutes, and it's still working fine, some 10 years later, with only one further change of AAA NiMH cells. We are a frugal household, and don't give a damn if our phone is laughably ancient.

Cheers,
Martin

___
Have you tried the anti-ageing properties of jaywalking?
 
Hello Bart,

I entirely agree. I have been using a BL-700 charger since buying a set of eneloops for my Pentax K-x about 6 months ago. The spec declares that it has -dV and overheat detection.

Hi Martin,

The Technoline BL-700 battery charger seems to be perfectly suited for the job (also available via Amazon under the La Crosse name), better than it's also 'rapid charging' sibling the BL-900 (although one can choose the current). Rapid charging is bad for longevity.

The BL-700 switches to "fully charged" when a cell voltage reaches 1.49 to 1.50, at which point the cells are warm but not hot (200 mA charging current). I choose to end the charge for all cells at the point when just one cell displays "Full", rather than trying to squeeze another 0.02 volt into the remainder (the charger is normally sitting on my desk where I can glance at it from time to time).

It may vary with particular cells, but 1.4-1.5 V switch-off is pretty common, although it's most likely the Delta-V or temperature that triggers that event. I would not worry about any additional trickle charge at that point, but it won't hurt to suspend charging at that point either, for NiMH that is (NiCd should be fully charged and periodically 'revived' by a controlled 'full' discharge and charge cycle).

Cheers,
Bart
 
I don't know how the LaCrosse BC-900 differs from the two units Bart mentions (BL-700 and BL-900), but an extensive discussion of the operation of the BC-900 can be found here:

http://dougkerr.net/Pumpkin/articles/BC-900.pdf

Hi Doug,

As far as Know, the BC-900 and BL-900 are the same unit (perhaps only different in screen-printing of the company name and enclosed 'manual'). The 900 unit doesn't have to be used at the higher current settings (although it can have it's uses when time is limited, and cell longevity can be sacrificed), so should otherwise be just as safe as the '700' version at lower current settings.

The numerical feedback from these units is very useful for assembling sets of cells that have a similar remaining quality/capacity. That will help reduce the risk of a single cell getting depleted before the others in a set, e.g. in a 4 cell flash unit, and being killed as a result.

Thanks for the link to one of your very informative articles.

Cheers,
Bart
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Bart,

As far as Know, the BC-900 and BL-900 are the same unit (perhaps only different in screen-printing of the company name and enclosed 'manual').
Yes, I wondered if that might be the case.

The 900 unit doesn't have to be used at the higher current settings (although it can have it's uses when time is limited, and cell longevity can be sacrificed), so should otherwise be just as safe as the '700' version at lower current settings.

The default charging current (if the user does not make an explicit setting) is 200 mA.

On the other end of the scale, the BC-900 can be set to a charging current of 1500 mA or 1800 mA if no more that two cells are to be worked (the second of the two cells can be set for any lower value if wanted).

The "trickle" (perpetual after the completion of the charging cycle) is, as you noted, 5% of the basic charging current in effect.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Otto Haring

New member
Hi Martin,

With a really smart charger (one that also monitors temperature) you can fully charge the batteries. The first 80 or so percent of the charging operation is mostly converted into a higher charge capacity, but then for the remaining 20% more and more energy is wasted in heat build up. The heat itself is supposed to be detrimental for the cell if it gets too high. Therefore the better smart chargers do not only look for a delta Voltage peak, but also regulate the charging current (mA) based on the cell itself and the point on the charge curve. This information is often not available for average chargers, but some of the better brands do specify these characteristics (albeit sometimes in terms like "multiple overcharging protection").

Cheers,
Bart

It is more complex than I thought... :)
 

Otto Haring

New member
Hi, Bart,


Yes, I wondered if that might be the case.



The default charging current (if the user does not make an explicit setting) is 200 mA.

On the other end of the scale, the BC-900 can be set to a charging current of 1500 mA or 1800 mA if no more that two cells are to be worked (the second of the two cells can be set for any lower value if wanted).

The "trickle" (perpetual after the completion of the charging cycle) is, as you noted, 5% of the basic charging current in effect.

Best regards,

Doug

... I trust you guys... :) Which batteries do you prefer - Powerex or Eneloop?
 
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