Open Photography Forums  
HOME FORUMS NEWS FAQ SEARCH

Go Back   Open Photography Forums > The Gear > Macintosh

Macintosh All Power PC and Intel platforms.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old October 24th, 2006, 04:56 AM
Tim Armes Tim Armes is offline
OPF Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Drôme, France
Posts: 404
Default Yet another Mac vs PC article

Hi all,

Having spent lots of time researching this debate, I took the option of writing down my conclusions. Doing this helps me get things clear in my own mind and allows me to point shocked friends and colleages at my reasons. I'd appreciate it if you would read and comment upon this article and provide any feedback that you may consider appropriate:

http://timothyarmes.com/thoughts/macvspc.php

Thanks,

Tim
__________________
http://www.timothyarmes.com
http://workshops.timothyarmes.com

All images posted in OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated Comment Only or Edit and Repost.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old October 24th, 2006, 07:00 AM
Ray West Ray West is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK - Somerset
Posts: 1,703
Default

Hi Timothy,

What ever suits you, but Dell is in no way a 'high end pc builder'.

Best wishes,

Ray
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old October 24th, 2006, 09:13 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 34,393
Default

I really appreciate your well thought out article. It's valuable as a resource. Actually, I already knew some of that but was blown away, when my son, a senor software product specialist for web based business solutions, swtitched to a 17" Mac Powerbook Pro to run his Windows XP Pro software!

He can get any laptop her so desires. Until now, he's shown disdain toward Apple. His switch is an impressive vote.

What frustrates me is that my purchase of each new Mac tower triggers the release of a more powerful model 3 weeks later!

Asher
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old October 24th, 2006, 11:30 AM
Don Lashier Don Lashier is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray West
What ever suits you, but Dell is in no way a 'high end pc builder'.
Like HP/Compaq, Dell plays both ends of the market. Apple otoh chooses to ignore the low end.

fwiw according to latest Gartner and IDC reports Apple market share is now around 6%, more than double a couple years ago, and sales growing 30%.

- DL
__________________
Don Lashier
www.lashier.com
- old enough to know better - but I do it anyway
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old October 24th, 2006, 02:27 PM
Ray West Ray West is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK - Somerset
Posts: 1,703
Default

I'm not sure if this is the correct place, or maybe under the pc side of things, but there are readily available instructions for building a pc. I think Tim should have factored that into his choice. I'm thinking of writing the same for Apple, which may even it up a bit. I particularly like the multi-language, the Japanese instructions. http://www.datadocktorn.nu/us_desktop1.php

Best wishes,

Ray
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old October 24th, 2006, 02:33 PM
Sean DeMerchant Sean DeMerchant is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington State, USA
Posts: 735
Default

I have used OS X a small amount and it fine to use. In the past I used OS 7 and OS 8 extensively and from watching the shift from OS 7 to OS 8 what I say was simply a total lack of innovation. Many of the new OS 8 features were available as 3rd party add-ons to OS 7.

Hence, the innovation line in an Apple versus Microsoft discussion rings very hollow to me and I would avoid using that arguement.

my $0.02,

Sean
__________________
[I]"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." [/I]- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)
[URL="http://www.envisagement.com/"]http://www.envisagement.com/[/URL]
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old October 25th, 2006, 02:57 PM
Stan Jirman Stan Jirman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean DeMerchant
[...]from watching the shift from OS 7 to OS 8 what I say was simply a total lack of innovation. Many of the new OS 8 features were available as 3rd party add-ons to OS 7.
Are you seriously basing your Mac opinion on your experiences 9 years ago? That's like eternity in this business.
__________________
Stan Jirman
http://www.jirman.com/
Canon & Apple equipment
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old October 25th, 2006, 03:06 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 34,393
Default

Sean,

The fact that my son, a PC software lead person, with the power and budget to choose, selected the Macbook Pro for his work, meaning (to me, at least,) that there's something special about Mac computers and OS at this time. I suggest you take a look.

Nine years ago Monical Lewinsky was still a fad for the news, digital cameras were 3MP and miraculous and Iraq was merely quietly hostile and troublesome!.

I think it might be time for you to revisit the Mac OS and the newest machines, which out of the box work very well and are not routinely attacked by viruses.

Asher
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old October 25th, 2006, 04:08 PM
Ray West Ray West is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK - Somerset
Posts: 1,703
Default

As far as I'm concerned, you are free to choose whatever you like. I am pleased you alerted me to the fact that there was a new pc. Obviously, folk make their own choices at the time, to suit their own requirements. For myself, I have only once in my life , touched a real Mac, and that is with over 40 years involved with computers. However, since I base my choices on what I want, and since mac are going pc platform now, it was worth a look. However, I saw nothing amazing. Great, a mac can run windoze. And what price this?

The only review I've read, just to get an idea about what the fuss is about, was here. There were more, but this didn't shout - 'hey you all gotta buy a mac,' so I havn't bothered to read more http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/84908...cbook-pro.html

I've quoted the summary of it here - (but it was last May)

Quote:
The MacBook has nudged at least one person in the PC Pro office closer to the purchase of an Apple computer. But many who saw it were unimpressed in comparison to the best of Windows-based notebooks. Cast your eyes to p61 and take a look at the Sony VAIO VGN-SZ1VP. It's lighter, at least as fast, has two graphics adaptors, it's arguably as good-looking, battery life is markedly better and it costs nearly £200 less.
Personally, I buy cheap. The Sony spec. (or at least the parts I'm interested in) is available for much less, from folk like Acer, or diy. As I am not involved in power point presentations, I do not need a remote puck?
(I can get them for a tenner, anyway, a fiver if usb,) and I do not need an illuminated keyboard, but I can get that too, if I was bothered.

I do not want to start any platform wars, its all a nonsense, but there is more choice in ibm type pc's wrt manufacturer, and if Mac is playing in that game, then that may be one more for pc folk to consider. But I suspect, if they want to attract pc users, they need to drop the price or increase the value for what you get. The brand name means nothing these days, unless you want it to.

But you please yourself, in a years time it will be different.

Best wishes,

Ray
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old October 25th, 2006, 08:43 PM
Sean DeMerchant Sean DeMerchant is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington State, USA
Posts: 735
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan Jirman
Are you seriously basing your Mac opinion on your experiences 9 years ago? That's like eternity in this business.
Please reread my statement and then look up innovate in the dictionary and note the comment was a critical comment on the article to help the author retain factual integrity.

Since all I said was I think claiming OS X is innovative* was not true when it is a nice collection of things I have seen before. They are well integrated, but I do not find that innovative so much as evolutionary. Heck, I like OS X. But it is no more innovative than XP is. If you want the innovation, then take a look around at many of the failed OSes and never finished window managers out there. The problem is that they are often great at one thing, but lack in other areas.

enjoy,

Sean





* OS X sole innovation I have observed is that it provided the first high performing *nix GUI I have used.
__________________
[I]"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." [/I]- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)
[URL="http://www.envisagement.com/"]http://www.envisagement.com/[/URL]

Last edited by Sean DeMerchant; October 25th, 2006 at 09:38 PM. Reason: Fixed unclear sentence.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old October 25th, 2006, 08:55 PM
Sean DeMerchant Sean DeMerchant is offline
Inactive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington State, USA
Posts: 735
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman
The fact that ... there's something special about Mac computers and OS at this time. I suggest you take a look.
Hi Asher,

Do not get me wrong, my comment was solely addressed at the fact in the article. I like OS X. But I would not call doing a good job of integrating ideas from other sources innovative as that is not crafting a new thing. I have not seen Apple do anything innovative with the iPod either. Both are nice tools, but they are certainly not the first in their genres. And that being first is what innovation is. Hence, I suggested to Tim to remove an arguement that rings hollow as he requested criticism. I made no comment about the quality or ease of use of OS X.

enjoy your day, :)

Sean
__________________
[I]"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." [/I]- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)
[URL="http://www.envisagement.com/"]http://www.envisagement.com/[/URL]
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old October 25th, 2006, 10:10 PM
KrisCarnmarker KrisCarnmarker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Spain
Posts: 240
Default

The problem with Apple's products is that the owners of the products become too emotionally attached to them and it clouds their judgment. They start claiming marketing lies as fact or twisting the truth in order to fit it to what they would want to be the truth.

OS X is a fine operating system. I really do think it is. It is probably the first truly very usable (to the general public) *unix based workstation. There are certain aspects of the UI that I personally dislike, and many usability experts would agree with some of them.

"it just works"? Give me a break! I have quite a lot of experience with Macs. Five years of tech support for several cross-platform software packages. Relatively speaking, just as many calls with problems relating to the OS or hardware came from the Mac users. My mother's company (an advertising and printing agency) was 100% Mac until they had it with the constant problems and switched every single computer to Sun Microsystems workstations and servers. My mother had a Mac at home and after 5 years of constant problems asked us to help pick out a Wintel PC for her. My colleague here bought a MacBook and could not stop praising it, even when it had to go to the shop for repairs three times during the first three months. It still does not work properly.

Innovative? How exactly? Apple where so successful with their marketing that people started believing the lies. To this day you still hear them claiming that Apple invented the Windows GUI and even the mouse. I saw it in another thread here on OPF! Tim, in his article modified the claim a bit to say that it brought Windowing GUIs to the masses. What masses is that? They are more popular than ever and have about 5-10% of the market. How is that the masses? Microsoft released their Windows OS before Apple and they both stole the concept from Xerox. The iPod's menu system is the latest claim to innovation, but there is nothing at all special about it. My stone age Creative MP3 player has the same menu system. The only obvious choice really.

There are other points made in Tim's article that could be commented on, but I will leave it at that.

Don't get me wrong, Apple's products are not bad. It may sound like I'm bashing them, but I am only bashing the lies that they are so much better. Thanks to the iPod, Apple has become the "cool" brand. And just like Nike or Pokemon, people buy them because "everybody else" has one. The fact that there are so many articles out there justifying their choice of a Mac speaks volumes.

Sorry for the rant :)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old October 26th, 2006, 05:05 AM
Tim Armes Tim Armes is offline
OPF Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Drôme, France
Posts: 404
Default

Khris,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisCarnmarker
The problem with Apple's products is that the owners of the products become too emotionally attached to them and it clouds their judgment.
Yes, Mac owners to tend to be very loyal, as I have discovered during my "research". Then again, so are Nikon owners, and Pentax owners, etc. Each platform behaves in a way which suits the users that choose it, so in that respect the loyalty Apple receives shouldn't be that suprising.

I am however convinced that Microsoft has won it's share of the market though sheer size and lots of underhand competive strategies, rather than by haveing a better interface (quite the opposite), and that a lot more people would prefer Mac's OS if they were to give it a chance.

Quote:
"it just works"? Give me a break! <snip>
I sound like you've had you faire share of bad luck there! I currently have lots of friends who use Mac, and they've never experienced any problems like that. In fact, they've all stated rock solid reliabilty as one of the strong points. Given the close tie-in between hardware and software, I don't find this surprising.

On the other hand, I could recount countless tales of my personal experiences of Windows just not working at all...

Quote:
Innovative? How exactly? Apple where so successful with their marketing that people started believing the lies.
After reflecting on your and Sean's comments, I tend to agree with some of your points. I will rewrite this part of my article.

The link that I provided does show that Apple have proved themselves to be innovative, but I agree also that in lot of cases where "innovative" is used there would be more approprate choices of word.

It seems to me that the "innovative" image comes from a combination of some innovation, some observation, some true ingenuity, plenty of creativity, and a strong understanding of the end user. This results in interfaces that have been constantly reputed for their ease of use and pleasent aesthetics compared to the competition.

Would you agree with that?

Quote:
To this day you still hear them claiming that Apple invented the Windows GUI and even the mouse. I saw it in another thread here on OPF! Tim, in his article modified the claim a bit to say that it brought Windowing GUIs to the masses. What masses is that? They are more popular than ever and have about 5-10% of the market. How is that the masses?
My understanding here is that they were the first to bring overlapping windows to the desktop computer scene. This was then copied by Microsoft, and thus delivered to the masses. Would Microsoft have done this first? Apple have nearly always been the first to bring such developments to the personal computer (even if they weren't, in fact, the orriginal innovaters).

Quote:
Microsoft released their Windows OS before Apple and they both stole the concept from Xerox.
This entry doesn't agree with you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...user_interface


Quote:
The iPod's menu system is the latest claim to innovation, but there is nothing at all special about it. My stone age Creative MP3 player has the same menu system. The only obvious choice really.
On the Nano that I tried, I loved the touch sensitive thumb wheel thing. I've personally not seen that done before. (Note that I'm not stating that it hasn't been done before).

Quote:
There are other points made in Tim's article that could be commented on, but I will leave it at that.

Don't get me wrong, Apple's products are not bad. It may sound like I'm bashing them, but I am only bashing the lies that they are so much better. Thanks to the iPod, Apple has become the "cool" brand. And just like Nike or Pokemon, people buy them because "everybody else" has one. The fact that there are so many articles out there justifying their choice of a Mac speaks volumes.
There aren't actually that many articles justifying Macs. I haven't found any that claim that it's "so much better". I think that the major motivation for these article is to bring the Mac that attention that it deserves.

Windows has 90% of the PC market. I truly believe that the World will be worse off if Microsoft succeed in taking all of it - competition is a necessary driving force. My personal wish is a simple one - that people take a good look at Apple's offer before jumping blindly on the Windows band wagon. Windows may well be better for lots of poeple, but I don't believe it's that best solution for 90% of personal computer users.

Tim
__________________
http://www.timothyarmes.com
http://workshops.timothyarmes.com

All images posted in OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated Comment Only or Edit and Repost.

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old October 26th, 2006, 05:22 AM
Tim Armes Tim Armes is offline
OPF Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Drôme, France
Posts: 404
Default

Thanks for all your feedback and critiques. The main critique has been the section on innovations, which I've now tried to address by modifying this section in the article.

Are they any other contentious areas?
__________________
http://www.timothyarmes.com
http://workshops.timothyarmes.com

All images posted in OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated Comment Only or Edit and Repost.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old October 26th, 2006, 06:45 AM
KrisCarnmarker KrisCarnmarker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Spain
Posts: 240
Default

Hi Tim, I'll try to respond to some of you responses.

Regarding loyalty. Loyalty is fine, but claiming untruths is another thing. Nikon users don't claim Nikon invented the SLR, for example. Visit the tech news sites and not a news story about MS isn't commented on by some Mac zealot claiming "Macs already have this", whether it is relevant or not, or true or not.

Whether the Mac has a better UI or not I will leave up to the individual It is purely a matter of taste. I would agree with regards to some aspects of their UI, but not with others.

I agree that Wintel PCs have a nack for not working. My personal experience is much better. I've had my share of problems but really only minor quibles. The fact that the Mac is a closed system, should mean much higher stability than it actualy does have. Why do people claim that it isso stable. Well, I don't know. My colleague still claims his MacBook is stable even though its been in the shop three times and he had to re-install the OS becuase of software corruption. You tell me why they won't admit to the truth? I'm sure there are plenty of people for which the Mac works flawlessly, but that is the case for Wintel PCs as well.

Regarding the innovation. I think any successfull company needs a fair degree of "some innovation, some observation, some true ingenuity, plenty of creativity, and a strong understanding of the end user". This is certainly not unique to Apple. Microsoft would not have survived without them either.

Regarding who was first. You may very well be right about overlapping windows. And with regards to the release of the UI, I contend that the Lisa was first on the market (in 1984) but MS was the first to show the public a working prototype in 1983 (see December 1983 issue of Byte magazine). The point is that they both stole the concept from Xerox, but only Apple claimed they invented it and only Apple tried to sue somebody (MS) for it. Talk about underhanded strategies!

The thumb-wheel on the iPOD is very nice, I agree. But that is not what I have seen as the supposed "innovation" with the iPOD. On the other hand, Ericsson's Jog-Dial on their phones is also a very nice interface. Like I said, success dictates some degree of innovation and thinking out-of-the-box.

Finally, I couldn't agree more with you on the competition issue. It is vital! And I am really glad Apple is around. I'm also glad Sun, HP, IBM and Linux are around.

What I don't like is the "Apple culture", and the lies it spews.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old October 26th, 2006, 08:58 AM
Ray West Ray West is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK - Somerset
Posts: 1,703
Default

Hi Tim,

I don't want to be contentious, but virtually all you have stated is contentious. However, if it rocks your boat, fine.

I did write a fairly lengthy response, to just one line of yours, but there is little point in posting it. You have decided, I don't have to decide the same as you, and my reasons are possibly different than yours. But a couple of other comments-

Overlapping window space - yippee. Of course, that is really important. I counter that with 'blue screen of death', and raise you one..

the link to mac v pc. - propaganda, bunkum, as expected, in particular the photo, which, if you can remember was how most advanced thinkers looked in 1973, but beauty is only 'a few adjustment layers' deep. btw, have you seen a picture of Einstein, for example, with a decent hair cut? Anyway, who wants to use a computer named after a fruit? In fact, I think that picture just about summarises it - Apples are used by arty types, the sort of folk who don't own a screwdriver, maybe 2% of the population, the ones who think 'desgn' is everything, but have no idea how things work. pcs are owned by everybody else. What is being said is, look how smart I am, and undoubtdly some such fiolk are smart, but I suspect that they are the ones who say nothing, its that old fable about the fox who lost his tail, the emperor's clothes, and such like - thats the nub of it....

Now you've joined, 'em Tim, you got to play by their rules, but you will all be assimilated....;-)

For goodness sake, its just a box of magic smoke, another box will be here tomorrow

Best wishes,

Newton - to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, sometimes
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old October 26th, 2006, 03:17 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 34,393
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray West
Hi Tim,

I don't want to be contentious, ......I counter that with 'blue screen of death', and raise you one..
Black!

Asher
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old October 26th, 2006, 04:00 PM
Ray West Ray West is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK - Somerset
Posts: 1,703
Default

Hi Asher,

'Ctrl - Alt - Del' (and just for you, roll up, waterproof keyboards)

I can see this getting nasty....
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old October 31st, 2006, 03:18 AM
Daniel Harrison Daniel Harrison is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 236
Default

OK I'll bite ;-) can't resist

Firstly let me say, if you like macs, fine use them and enjoy them. It is a tool

Now all this about is how easy macs are to use. Well I live on computers, pull them apart and can fix just about anything that comes my way. But networking a mac was horrible. Took forever and couldn't figure it out. Is a mac easier to use, NO not if your used to PC's, and visa versa.

Macs look cooler, definately!

Since when is less choice better? It is not really a reason to buy a mac.

I like my PC because I know that I can have just about everything that is avaliable at my disposal. I like RSP and you can't use it on a mac. That would annoy me. I like lots of choices in software and don't really like the idea of being limited in my choices.

Now finally this idea of Microsoft is evil - they steal ideas blah blah blah. If you were them you would stay competitive too, that is all they are doing. If it wasn't for MS I can't imagine how horrible the computer world would be. They brought us together and it works, they standadised everything. Sure they have issues but so does OSX. But I think the "buy Mac's to boycott MS" is a little strange. Get Linux, then we can all have free software ;-)

and now you can run Windows on a mac, they use intell CPU's ATI and Nvidia graphics cards Seagate HDD- They are PC's SHOCK but they have really cool cases! And they really are cool cases.

They have good monitors too apparently. But really if you like them use them. But I don't understand people who lose 1000's of dollars switching their studio becuase it is ... "so much better" Lenses are better than both PC's and MAcs so there!

can we all still be friends :-)
__________________
-------------------
Daniel Harrison
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old October 31st, 2006, 12:45 PM
Nick Rains Nick Rains is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 25
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisCarnmarker
Don't get me wrong, Apple's products are not bad. It may sound like I'm bashing them, but I am only bashing the lies that they are so much better.
This thread is one of the most polite ones I have read given the subject matter! Well done.

I find myself agreeing with KrisCarnmarker in many respects, especially this broadly held notion of some Mac 'mojo' that only a Mac-head would understand.

My own take is that it's one of a collection of boxes that you plug in and use to print photographs. Not a piece of jewellery or a way of expressing yourself.

I was going to stop there but I can't resist...

Why can you only resize a Mac window by dragging the bottom right hand corner? Why not any edge, like on Windows? It may sound trivial but I find this annoying out of all proportion! Maybe I have missed something...
__________________
Nick Rains
Australia
www.nickrains.com
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old November 1st, 2006, 02:09 AM
Dierk Haasis Dierk Haasis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hamburg (Germany)
Posts: 548
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman
[...] when my son, a senor software product specialist for web based business solutions, swtitched to a 17" Mac Powerbook Pro to run his Windows XP Pro software!
Hm, that says a lot about quality control, something about perception and nothing about Mac vs. PC.

QM - Considering that the hardware for Apple's computers is the same as the one available for anbyody to build his own computer [BTW, this has been so in the Golden Age when Apple was very different from IBM-clones; e.g. DeskWriters were HP Deskjets], Apple might have a superb quality control, something lacking with most PC manufacturers.

Perception - Apple is expensive, looks different in an expensive way, looks better built, so it must be better.

Mac vs. PC - Isn't the main interest here the OS? Running XP on an Apple does not count as Mac vs. PC because the former (Mac) is an operating system [more or less] while the other is a hardware structure. Let's assume with 'PC' is meant Windows. Then the whole versus discussion is over the moment we use Apples to run Windows.

Let's face it, Apple builds high-end computers based upon the original IBM-structure. After decades they have now given in completely and are just a player in the market. Probably the only mass-producing high-end work machine manufacturer. Their OS is now a *nix derivate with a clunky UI put upon it. Many of the folks writing about maybe changing from PC to Apple are actually considering the Apple only because it can now run XP and Vista. Looks like Microsoft has done something right.
__________________
Dierk Haasis
[DH² Publishing]
Writing and Imaging

Nikon D2x, Nikon D200, Breeze DownloaderPro, Capture NX2, xMedia2, IDimager, Adobe Creative Suite 3
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old November 1st, 2006, 09:56 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 34,393
Default The "Mojo" of the Mac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Rains
This thread is one of the most polite ones I have read given the subject matter! Well done.

I find myself agreeing with KrisCarnmarker in many respects, especially this broadly held notion of some Mac 'mojo' that only a Mac-head would understand.
Nick,

The first remark is pleasing as hopefully a measure of this community. I hope we set a tone of courtesy and tone that is respectful of other photographers. I believe that has beren successful.

It's interesting that we have 20%, one of the highest extent of Mac users on a forum. Yet there is no damning and worse!

I think, perhaps this is because people who work and use tools mainly are interested in whether or not they and others can actually achieve in photography what there goal is rather than merely brag.

Whether it's lenses and their serial numbers or boxes and their pedigree, it's the picture that we achieve that really value.

Then, of course, we've loyalty!

It's, I think, to the "team of stuff". We cheer for any team we come to like.

This may be the "mojo" of Apple!

Asher
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old January 5th, 2007, 12:50 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
Administrator/Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bordeaux
Posts: 5,736
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Rains
Why can you only resize a Mac window by dragging the bottom right hand corner? Why not any edge, like on Windows? It may sound trivial but I find this annoying out of all proportion! Maybe I have missed something...
Maybe I miss something too as I don't understand why, on XP, one have to go thru "Start" to shut down the machine....;-)
__________________
WEBSITE - FACEBOOK - INSTAGRAM
Please do no repost my images elsewhere than OPF without my permission.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old January 5th, 2007, 01:14 PM
Ray West Ray West is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK - Somerset
Posts: 1,703
Default

Hi Nicolas,

Yes, it does seem funny, at first. In fact, you are 'starting' the shutdown process. These days its not just a case of 'pulling the plug'. You can also do the 'ctrl-alt-del' - the 3 fingered salute, which fires up the windows task manager, one option there, since it is a task, is to shut down, log off, or similar whatever. Earlier versions was just the 3fs to shutdown.

I guess there are alternatives, running adobe and other software seems to shut it down, sometimes. I usually leave it on all the time, except if going away for more than 5 days, or adding hardware or some brands of software.

Best wishes,

Ray

btw, Asher seemed to have some fun a few days ago installing an apple os recently - he mentioned it somewhere.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old January 5th, 2007, 02:01 PM
Jay Hoss Jay Hoss is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Midwest
Posts: 38
Default

Don't forget about the almighty kernal panic!
__________________
--
jason
network photography
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old January 6th, 2007, 10:13 AM
jacob smith jacob smith is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 22
Default

You know, I'm new here and was thankful for this thread initially.
But now, I'm totally confused as to what to get.
You all suck.

Hi, I'm Jacob btw. :)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old January 6th, 2007, 01:10 PM
Tim Smith Tim Smith is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central Maine, U.S.A.
Posts: 39
Default

Personally, I'm sorry this thread ever showed up. I have been drawn into other threads just like this one and vowed (over and over) never to be caught up in one again. I find it to be a strange cultural phenomenon that something as manufactured as a personal computer can elicit such emotional reactions from people.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old January 6th, 2007, 01:42 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 34,393
Default

HI Tim,

We are not machine-centric! Almost all things we need are available equally on PC and Mac platforms as explained above. I happen to like Macs.

As a Mac user, however, I do sometimes wish I could try out an interesting program.

So I can see a preference for one operating system over another if you depend on say a morphing or cataloging program that only works on one platform.

I personally like the idea that the Powerbook Pro laptops can allow us to use software that only works on the PC platform.

I don't think on should be chauvinistic about this sort of thing. Only point is that for a lot of people, Mac integrations appear to be smoother.

Asher
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old January 6th, 2007, 02:26 PM
Tim Smith Tim Smith is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central Maine, U.S.A.
Posts: 39
Default

The neutral voice of reason as always Asher. I agree but wished only to express my surprise at how contentious the platform discussions can become. Someone on this forum (I think) had a signature line that went something like: "Nice meal, what kind of pots did you use?" That kind of sums it up for me.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old January 6th, 2007, 07:47 PM
Stan Jirman Stan Jirman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman
I personally like the idea that the Powerbook Pro laptops can allow us to use software that only works on the PC platform.
MacBook Pro. Gotta be careful, PC software is rather useless on a Powerbook :)
__________________
Stan Jirman
http://www.jirman.com/
Canon & Apple equipment
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:10 AM.


Posting images or text grants license to OPF, yet © of such remain with its creator. Still, all assembled discussion © 2006-2017 Asher Kelman (all rights reserved) Posts with new theme or unusual image might be moved/copied to a new thread!