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  #31  
Old March 20th, 2014, 12:37 PM
Laura Fitch Laura Fitch is offline
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Asher, do you think this will fix my issue of LR 4 running so slowly?
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  #32  
Old March 20th, 2014, 01:02 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Laura
let's be serious, if you're a pro user of Macs and high res images and if you want fast workflow:
go to LR5 (much faster than 4)
get more ram (a lot!)
very fats disk and scratch disks (SSDs are the best)
Maverick
A good machine to support all that…
And that is a Mac Pro. Since I got mine I every day feel to get "kicks in the a…"

If you are self employed the buying budget will be paid quickly
If you are employee your boss will get more of you for the same salary…

Be productive and never forget that, well advised, YGWYPF!
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  #33  
Old March 20th, 2014, 01:15 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura Fitch View Post
Asher, do you think this will fix my issue of LR 4 running so slowly?
I'd give it a try because there's little money to risk in the SSD and you can always use it no matter what system you get. The only question is whether you'd spend a tad more and get a 6G version SSD from the same vendor. In any case, you cannot lose. Read the digilloyd article on Lightroom, he only covers tip Lightroom 4 but still, it works the same for optimization principles.

The only risk is that of buying more RAM immediately, and that''s not much at todays prices. I'd just try the SSD firs and unclutter your hard drive where you store images to be edited. Your drive should be not more than 80% full.

Also look at software to clean up your mac. (Not Mackeeper, according to Apple support communities, although it has not done me any obvious harm.) This Macschool bloodspot article is a good, (almost free), route to cleaning up your Mac, emptying cache and getting rid of unwanted junk and left overs from old programs you thought you deleted. You might find 1-2 GB of junk! That again I'd get irrespective of which computer I'd run and what operating system I'd go for.

In summary, clean out junk, free up memory, (limit start up items) and use an SSD card with, if you can, every other program turned off, the desktop clear and no other windows open.

Asher
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  #34  
Old March 20th, 2014, 01:28 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
Laura
let's be serious, if you're a pro user of Macs and high res images and if you want fast workflow:
go to LR5 (much faster than 4)
get more ram (a lot!)
very fats disk and scratch disks (SSDs are the best)
Nicolas,

I hardly use Lightroom, so I leave the professional and commercial level advice to your greater expertise here, of course! Still, I'd not rely using Mavericks, right away, since one can't go backwards and there are enough people with difficulties. For that I'd wait.

I really think that most folk can do all they need with a late model Mac Pro tower or iMac and don't need to invest in the tiny and beautiful but, (arguably crippled) new Mac Tower. It requires external bays for extra drives!! Any recent tower has 4 bays for drives and one can use the DVD in front for a 5th!! No need for all the extra wall warts for power supplies to the extra disks. also, in the Digiloyd tests, the latest iMac pretty well is as fast.

So unless one has the money, one does not need the latest Mac beauty!!

Asher
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  #35  
Old March 20th, 2014, 02:02 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Asher
I don't care about the beauty of the machine, and yes, the plugs are a hassle, but the power is there.
You're right, no need of such power if you handle 20 Mb jpegs… but is you have to work on 500 raw files of 80 MB at a time, each second gained by file is a relief…
LR4 or LR5 works on all recent machines. It just needs Ram and processor raw force.
Albeit V5 is much faster.
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  #36  
Old March 20th, 2014, 02:25 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
Asher
I don't care about the beauty of the machine, and yes, the plugs are a hassle, but the power is there.
You're right, no need of such power if you handle 20 Mb jpegs… but is you have to work on 500 raw files of 80 MB at a time, each second gained by file is a relief…
LR4 or LR5 works on all recent machines. It just needs Ram and processor raw force.
Albeit V5 is much faster.
Nicolas,

If I am able to move up to a 645D, (smile), then of course, I'll go for the racehorse too! My biggest waste of time is for processing images. I want to move away from stitching, relighting in photoshop and removing imperfections in skin. I would love to meet the standards of the portraitists who accept blemishes as part of the art. Of course, commercial photography can't get away with that, as clients want their new architecture to look like it was made by craftsmen from heaven and a band of angels keeping it perfect no matter what!

Asher
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  #37  
Old March 20th, 2014, 03:01 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
My biggest waste of time is for processing images. I want to move away from stitching, relighting in photoshop and removing imperfections in skin.
Well then, if your time is money go to the force!

PS I use Maverick for many months now (till it's out). It is stable and works days long (and PP days are long!).
However, I have installed only real softwares and plugins, no games or pseudo utilities that can have bad compatibility with the core system.
Some simple maintenance from time to time, and run permission repair thru disk utility every week…
I have 4G wifi connection, ethernet, a mac mini 2nd generation as mail and file server thru ethernet, a network with 4 Macs and 1 Windows machine.
Romain has the same for video running on a iMac 27 with no issue, same with Marine running Indesign all day.
The server is also under Maverick server.
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  #38  
Old March 20th, 2014, 04:45 PM
Laura Fitch Laura Fitch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post


In summary, clean out junk, free up memory, (limit start up items) and use an SSD card with, if you can, every other program turned off, the desktop clear and no other windows open.

Asher
Thanks, Asher. I don't have cluttered drives (I use AppDelete and am pretty fastidious about that), I keep my applications on my main drive and my files on a separate drive but I do sometimes have a browser open at the same time I'm working in LR. I would hope that wouldn't make a big difference, though.

I have used 110GB of my 500GB main drive and 960GB of my 2TB file/document drive. My LR photo library probably does have a number of photos I could delete but I don't think I have a really large image library compared to many others. Currently I have 58,362 photo files taking up about 588GB according to my Mac.

I didn't have any complaints until I upgraded to LR 4 so I'm starting to think my main problem might be that I use a dual-core Mac instead of a newer quad. Bummer.
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  #39  
Old March 20th, 2014, 07:25 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura Fitch View Post
Thanks, Asher. I don't have cluttered drives (I use AppDelete and am pretty fastidious about that), I keep my applications on my main drive and my files on a separate drive but I do sometimes have a browser open at the same time I'm working in LR. I would hope that wouldn't make a big difference, though.

I have used 110GB of my 500GB main drive and 960GB of my 2TB file/document drive. My LR photo library probably does have a number of photos I could delete but I don't think I have a really large image library compared to many others. Currently I have 58,362 photo files taking up about 588GB according to my Mac.

I didn't have any complaints until I upgraded to LR 4 so I'm starting to think my main problem might be that I use a dual-core Mac instead of a newer quad. Bummer.

So try the SSD drive. You can always use it for any new computer. That and RAM. Chances are you'll be happy. Still, as Nicolas points out, time is money. Only you can gauge whether or not your job can pay for it somehow. If it's possible to have the job cover, it then go that route. Otherwise, a 1 to 2 year old Tower would be magic. Mountain Lion is very stable. Mavericks may be perfect for the latest tower, but I'd be conservative, as going to mavericks with anything else is a one way street. The right tools for the job must match your own finances. I take a great deal of trouble to look at speeds of processing images and frankly, unless you re going to switch to huge files, stay with a low economic profile.


In spite of the beauty of the new tower, it is really a major marketing creation by Apple of thin air.





They brilliantly removed 80-90% of the mass and volume, saving costs of raw materials, production, storage, shipping and shelf space at the stores but omitted the famed adaptability of the Towers: an extra 4 places for added hard drives and a slew of open slots for new video or connectivity cards DIRECT to the bus.




Now, one needs many more power cords and hard drive enclosures, adapters and boxes to give extra ports. Funny thing is that everyone forgets the story of The Emperor with No Clothes!

It's a Mac Pro Tower eviscerated.........but let's pull out the bus and call it "Thunderbolt!" Hmm, like dragging one's intestines and kidneys behind one in the street, LOL! ...............................Yes, at insufficient speed to run the very fastest graphic cards!

Asher
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  #40  
Old March 20th, 2014, 08:25 PM
Laura Fitch Laura Fitch is offline
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I'm seeing more and more information pointing to my lack of cores being the problem over RAM: http://www.michaeldeleon.net/how-muc...ghtroom-4-use/

I may still get the SSD, like you said the drive will work in any Mac. I think I will need to spend the money on a newer Mac sooner than I'd like to, though. I really don't plan to purchase a new Mac Pro so it'll be a newer used Mac Pro or a new Mac Mini. I'm also looking at the Asus ASUS PA249Q monitor : http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...cklit_ips.html
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  #41  
Old March 20th, 2014, 11:55 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Mavericks may be perfect for the latest tower,
Simply not true!
We run Mavericks on 2 and 3 years old iMac 27 and a 4 year old Mac mini. Zero problem.
Machines are on pro environment, with no fancy sw.

Your argument about the lack of internal space in the new Mac Pro is partial.
The same applies to Mac mini and iMacs!

If one cannot afford a new MacPro, I would go on an iMac with the widest screen for my budget.
Plus SSD boot drive and the maximum of RAM.

Laura, you should try LR5 (there is a demo fully functional lasting one month) just be aware that you can update an older library but cannot use an LR5 gallery from LR4…
One way street is the law with computers Asher! (and we know why ; )

To be honest about LR, I've never use that DAM thing (pun intended).
I create a session for each job.
My Job are stored in folders containing client/brand/model/date so easy to find and search afterward!
"Light" session are imho the key to speed with LR.
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  #42  
Old March 21st, 2014, 07:51 AM
Laura Fitch Laura Fitch is offline
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An update just in case this info helps out any other users surfing the forum someday.

I spoke with the folks at OWC (macsales.com) about my situation and my wanting to upgrade to one of their solid state drives. I was told not to unless I also added more RAM and upgraded the video card. They advised that while the SSD is nice, it will not solve my current problem with LR running slowly. They agreed that the main issue is that my MacPro1,1 is dual core and LR really runs better with more cores (and apparently the video card makes a big difference, too). Also, the MacPro1,1 cannot make use of the 6G SSD but only the 3G (but if I purchased with the idea of transferring to something like a Mac Mini in the future then maybe I'd go with the 6G anyway, I don't know).

I don't know much about video cards--have never had to upgrade/install one, but I know they can get pricey. I don't want to put too much money into a Mac that is doomed to be outdated regardless--the MacPro1,1 is from 2006 and will never run Mavericks or anything to come after that OS version. It's not that I feel the need to run Mavericks right now but I know that I must be able to keep my Mac up to date with LR and other software which makes keeping the OS reasonably up to date important.

So, I think a slow Mac it is until I can afford to replace the whole computer with either a newer used Mac Pro or something like the newest Mac Mini (I'm not a fan of the Apple display on the iMac's compared to third party display options). Frustrating.

Thanks for all the input!
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  #43  
Old March 21st, 2014, 11:56 AM
Laura Fitch Laura Fitch is offline
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A good link for anyone with an old Mac Pro they want to breathe new life into: http://www.imore.com/how-breathe-new-life-dying-mac-pro

Unless, like me, you have the 2006 MacPro 1,1:
"First off, if you have a first or second generation Mac Pro (identified as "MacPro1,1" and "MacPro2,1" in the System Information app), you're a bit stuck in the past. Neither of those machines has 64-bit EFI firmware, necessary to install Mountain Lion. That means the newest operating system software you'll ever be able to run is Lion, and the newest app software you can run will need to be Lion-compatible.

That's not a show-stopping problem for most people today, but more and more apps are optimized for Mountain Lion and the capabilities introduced therein. What comes after Mountain Lion will get into developers' hands next month at WWDC, and that's going to create further difficulty down the line. So if you haven't already started saving up for a new machine, get cracking, because the time is coming soon to put out old Bessie to pasture."

This is what I get for buying a first generation Mac! Further makes me realize I do not want to put out the money for a current black box Mac Pro until they've had one or two more models :-)
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  #44  
Old March 21st, 2014, 02:21 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura Fitch View Post
A good link for anyone with an old Mac Pro they want to breathe new life into: http://www.imore.com/how-breathe-new-life-dying-mac-pro

Unless, like me, you have the 2006 MacPro 1,1:
"First off, if you have a first or second generation Mac Pro (identified as "MacPro1,1" and "MacPro2,1" in the System Information app), you're a bit stuck in the past. Neither of those machines has 64-bit EFI firmware, necessary to install Mountain Lion. That means the newest operating system software you'll ever be able to run is Lion, and the newest app software you can run will need to be Lion-compatible.

That's not a show-stopping problem for most people today, but more and more apps are optimized for Mountain Lion and the capabilities introduced therein. What comes after Mountain Lion will get into developers' hands next month at WWDC, and that's going to create further difficulty down the line. So if you haven't already started saving up for a new machine, get cracking, because the time is coming soon to put out old Bessie to pasture."
Well Laura,

You have helped everyone with your questions and research. Thanks! :)

Obsolescence is no accident, LOL! Apple's business plans depend on it. Essentially, they're selling a device for handling their own proprietary operating system for our computing needs. They maximize their profits by limiting what this has to do to keep our loyalty.

So, they've off-loaded as much high mass and size, but low-profit-margin elements of the Mac Pro machine to 3rd part exterior drive and accessory manufacturers. What people are buying is the Mac brand of high power, virus-free and well-connected-milieux for integrating business, data and creativity, almost a scaled up iphone but, with no screen!

Essentially, for Apple Inc., our local data storage and occasional needs for specialty connectivity or graphics card are headaches they want the least part in. Their "cloud" is "it" for now and we'd better get used to that!


Asher
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