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"Other" users again marginalized?

BohemianGlamour

New member
For once it would be nice to visit a forum where users are not lumped into 1. Nikon, 2. Canon, 3. Others.

Hopefully OPF will rectify the situation soon.

Oh well, time to take my Other DSLR and go shooting... ;)
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
BH,

Yes, I appreciate your feelings! However, different camera users have various camera specific issues such as firmware, error problems, lens limitations and so forth.

However, we'll keep this under review.

Asher

P.S. I have sent you a PM concerning our need for REAL NAME.
 

Kyle Nagel

New member
BohemianGlamour said:
For once it would be nice to visit a forum where users are not lumped into 1. Nikon, 2. Canon, 3. Others.

Hopefully OPF will rectify the situation soon.

Oh well, time to take my Other DSLR and go shooting... ;)


Hi, Welcome to the "Other DSLR" forum, I'll try to be here every day at least a couple of times to help keep all of the "other" users feeling welcome. If you check my signature you will see I am a Pentax shooter, I often refer to myself as the red-headed stepchild when around other photographers. I'm not sure how to address you (name-wise) but again welcome to the forum. Out of curiosity what are you shooting with? I already can surmise it doesn't start with a "C" or an "N", just guessing, but maybe a Fuji? I'm hoping once Pentax's new 10 MP hits the streets this fall it will pick up some steam, healthy competition is always good. As far as having separate forums for all the cameras I don't see that happening right away, but as moderator on this forum my suggestion would be for those posting camera specific issues to be sure and include the camera brand in the thread title, that way those using the same type of camera can quickly see which threads may be of interest to them.

Kyle
 

Adriaan Jutte

New member
Olympus E-1 shooter

Asher Kelman said:
BH, Yes, I appreciate your feelings! However, different camera users have various camera specific issues such as firmware, error problems, lens limitations and so forth.

Exactly, that is why I for one would appreciate an Olympus forum. I am certain Pentax, Fuji & Sigma users are not interested in my Olympus related questions.
 

Daniel Harrison

pro member
I think it is a good way to start off. How many forums do you want? Fuji, Oly, Kodak, Panasonic, Pentax, Sony. It would spread the user base too much, at least at this stage. I think these forums are aimed at the more serious professional and at the moment most pro's shoot with C&N (not saying they should- just that they do). So it makes sense as far as percentages are concerned to have those two and then lump the "others" together. That way you will have a good number of people visiting your room. Hopefully though we will see more people posting about photographic skills that we can share to help each other - rather than just threads about gear. Not that I don't like gear - I love it :)

just a thought ;-)
 

Kyle Nagel

New member
dazaau said:
I think it is a good way to start off. How many forums do you want? Fuji, Oly, Kodak, Panasonic, Pentax, Sony. It would spread the user base too much, at least at this stage. I think these forums are aimed at the more serious professional and at the moment most pro's shoot with C&N (not saying they should- just that they do). So it makes sense as far as percentages are concerned to have those two and then lump the "others" together. That way you will have a good number of people visiting your room. Hopefully though we will see more people posting about photographic skills that we can share to help each other - rather than just threads about gear. Not that I don't like gear - I love it :)

just a thought ;-)

Yes, that is exactly the point, I'm sure if we already had 30 posts with 200 replies for say Olympus, Fuji or any of the others we could consider a separate forum, however right now all we have are 3 posts, none of which have a lot of technical discussion, so if anyone wants to get the ball rolling start posting :>) - We're all ready and waiting for some good discussion. (seriously, I'm really waiting, anyone? -- ...rubs hands together, cracks knuckles and and poises hands over keyboard...)

Kyle
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I would add that digicams are and will be very important to the pro.

I regularly use a digicam when scouting a large building before taking pictures. It is very covenient and allows me to think about where I will put a tripod, whether I'll need to use a ladder, have access to an adjacent building and so forth. I do this without carrying an weight and under no pressure at all.

Asher
 

Kyle Nagel

New member
Gary C-G said:
I have a question. Is OPF to be about cameras or about photography?


Both, That is what is so great about it, it is a place to discuss all aspects concerning the photographer, whether it is the equipment, the technique, or just about anything related to it. Enjoy!

Kyle
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Gary C-G said:
I have a question. Is OPF to be about cameras or about photography?
A simple, bold but good question, Gary.

OPF is about a path from intent to print.

Whatever is needed for you in this journey is in our interest to cover.

However, we do not wish to retest a camera clearly detailed in dpreview.com and several other reliable forums. Obviously, advances are discussed here and things that others may not make a fuss about, but we think are significant in the process, we'll cover.

We'd love reviews of any neglected gems! Just submit an idea.

I personally am interested in the potential the latest CMOS chips, how the signals are processed, what new accessory chips are being integrated in digicams and many other such issues. So you will see a mix of new technology, technics as well as plain sharing of ideas.

This is a place where we will get to know the experiences and reliability of different cameras so, to that extent, it will be highly camera-centric.

However, by the professional specialist areas of interest, the focus shifts: purpose, business, needs and technics for that style or discipline of photography.

In every section of OPF, we still get back to ...and with what camera and what lens?

However, cameras are just one step in the process and to me at least, they should be, and probably have to be, pretty interchangable.

I hope this approaches an answer to your question.


Asher
 

Daniel Harrison

pro member
I have one thought about what camera and what lens... Does it really matter so much for web based images? If I could see a 16x20" print and was impressed - Then I would really want to know what was used. but often people think that because someone took a great shot and posted it at 640x480 pixels that if they had that equipment they could get such "sharp" results. But at 640x480 pixels a plastic lens on a 2mp camera would look good with a litle PP. So I wonder how much it really matters??? Maybe we should be asking how they got the shot as opposed to what they used to get the shot?

What do you all think?

This is also why I think taht if we are discussing gear then 100% crops are good not 640x480 resized images.
 

Kyle Nagel

New member
...if we are discussing gear then 100% crops are good not 640x480 resized images.

This is a valid point, the type of images posted will be dependent on the reason posting, if one is discussing lens sharpness then 100% crops would be a better representation for forum members to consider when discussing images. If one is posting images concerning cropping, composition, etc. then re-scaled versions of the entire image would make more sense. I'm sure most users will post images appropriately sized for whatever it is they are trying to convey.

Kyle
 

Adriaan Jutte

New member
Ok I'll bite

Kyle Nagel said:
Yes, that is exactly the point, I'm sure if we already had 30 posts with 200 replies for say Olympus, Fuji or any of the others we could consider a separate forum, however right now all we have are 3 posts, none of which have a lot of technical discussion, so if anyone wants to get the ball rolling start posting :>) - We're all ready and waiting for some good discussion. (seriously, I'm really waiting, anyone? -- ...rubs hands together, cracks knuckles and and poises hands over keyboard...)

Kyle

Sorry, you can't reason like that. ;) The whole reason we had only 3 posts by Olympus, Pentax, etc users in the "Other DSLR" forum at that point, is precisely BECAUSE there is no Olympus, Pentax etc specific forums.

After all, would a Ford owner feel motivated to participate in a car show where drivers are grouped into "Chevrolet", "Chrysler" and "Other cars"?

But that's of no concern to me anymore, I just ordered my Canon 5D so I'll soon join the Canon forum! :) It will feel great to finally have my existence acknowledged by my peers!
 

Kyle Nagel

New member
Adriaan Jutte said:
But that's of no concern to me anymore, I just ordered my Canon 5D so I'll soon join the Canon forum! :) It will feel great to finally have my existence acknowledged by my peers!


Congratulations on the new acquisition, so I guess you won't be stuck at the rickety card table in the corner with the rest of us, eh? But please come and visit here occasionally and let us know what it's like at the grown-ups table. *rueful smile*

Kyle
 

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
Could well be that there will be some pretty big changes post photokina this year, I don't think that Oly, Sony or Pentax are in any way going to be changing the pro landscape, but with DSLR's becoming serious in the marketplace from the above mentioned 3 it could be possible to see more forums for them rather than have them grouped together as they seem to be on almost all forums these days.

Personally I'm very interested in the new Pentax 10 megapixel body to hang off those 3 great sounding pancake lenses for a great carry around street system. I would have liked the K100D to have had the bigger chip, I wanted a camera that small, but we shall see what photokina will bring us...
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
This is a very open place. Here's the deal, find a group that want a separate, say Pentax or 4/4 forum and we'll do it. The new Macro forum, either is or will be posted. It comes as a result of encouraging posts by people in that field and see that there's a small but solid nucleus to start the group off.

So post what you have and like and let's see what's needed! Just start a new thread for your camera and nurture that thread and get others to back you up! when you have a group, let us know and there could indeed by a Fuji, Olympus, Sony, Pentax and other new fora!

Asher
 

Kyle Nagel

New member
Ben Rubinstein said:
... I would have liked the K100D to have had the bigger chip...


I do not understand why Pentax released two more 6 MP entry level DSLRs, they had 3 or 4 current offerings and then revamped them completely to start the "K" line. I assumed it may have been because they are using the old *ist series digitals for the Samsung line and wanted the two brands to have different "looks", but then again they are releasing the new 10MP under the Pentax and Samsung brands so I'm not even sure that was the case. The K100D does have the anti-shake feature but there's not much new for the K110D which could have just as well have been one of their *ist digitals they already had. With the exception of the first *ist digital, the *istD, the rest were so fractionally different from each other I'm not even sure why half of them were released.


Personally I'm very interested in the new Pentax 10 megapixel body to hang off those 3 great sounding pancake lenses for a great carry around street system... ... I wanted a camera that small...

Pentax does make about the smallest DSLRs you can get, but sometimes they are too small, I have large hands so they are sometimes awkward for me to use. I have the vertical/battery grip on my *istD which makes it very usable for me and adds additional battery life as well as a vertical release, but the subsequent bodies they have released to not offer the ability to add a grip, I am marginally concerned it will not be available on the new 10MP, which would be a mistake for 3 or 4 reasons. We'll have to wait and see.

Kyle
 

Ray West

New member
Much of the electronics industry is getting stirred up by the introduction of 'lead free solder'. They may decide to redesign cameras to take account of that requirement in other areas too, at least one maker has stopped producing because of it. Now, they will then start saying how bad for the environment the old cameras were, so consumers buy the new. A bit like the political garbage about 'green petrol'

Best wishes,

Ray
 

Ben Rubinstein

pro member
Kyle Nagel said:
Pentax does make about the smallest DSLRs you can get, but sometimes they are too small, I have large hands so they are sometimes awkward for me to use. I have the vertical/battery grip on my *istD which makes it very usable for me and adds additional battery life as well as a vertical release, but the subsequent bodies they have released to not offer the ability to add a grip, I am marginally concerned it will not be available on the new 10MP, which would be a mistake for 3 or 4 reasons. We'll have to wait and see.

Kyle

Kyle, yes they are small but heck if even the DL2 fits in my hand better than any canon camera ever made, I need a grip for my 5D to balance it, I can hold that Pentax happily and comfortably due to the deep and rounded grip and that huge thumb ridge on the back.
 

Kyle Nagel

New member
True, but the choice of having or not having a grip is really all I want, their cameras are great if you want something small, for say street photography as was mentioned, throw that 40mm limited pancake lens on it and you can't get any closer to a point and shoot, but I think to compete with the so-called "A" list guys they will need to appeal to a larger group of photographers, Those shooting portrait oriented images will want the vertical release, and large volume location shooters will want the additional battery life, and those of us with big hands will want the added grip area. I think it would be a mistake to release it without battery grip capabilities. the other thing that concerns me is their recent models have all gone to SD cards, I hope that the new 10MP uses CF or even better both.

Kyle
 

Keith Heinrich

New member
Other cameras - A100

On the subject of other cameras, I have been following Sony's A100 prerelease with interest. Based on the 5D and significantly improved, the A100 seems to be a mid range cam at a bottom of the market price making this a compelling option for anyone looking to move across from a Minolta film body or even looking to enter the DSLR owners club for the first time.

Pros using Minolta film bodies may not be impressed on account of the feature set or non metal shell (some 7's were composite too) however based on 5D ergonomics and performance and combined with G glass and 10M sensor, it should quite easily do the job.

Thinking back a few years, we have now a range of cameras at the consumer end of the market that easily out perform earlier DLSR's (faster, smaller, improved battery life, improved sensor performance etc) at a fraction of the price. There is no word yet on what Sony has in store for professional photographers however if anyone is placed to challenge the two established players, then surely it must be Sony. Lets see what happens next.
 
Ladders?

Asher Kelman said:
I regularly use a digicam when scouting a large building before taking pictures. It is very covenient and allows me to think about where I will put a tripod, whether I'll need to use a ladder, have access to an adjacent building and so forth. I do this without carrying an weight and under no pressure at all.

Asher,

Do you use a ladder with a tripod? Or separately and handhold ladder shots? Indoors, outdoors, or both?

Last time I took a ladder shooting it was a waste and rattled in the truck bed on all the backcountry roads. Rather annoying and mildly distracting. But I also know of one local landscape shot where and extra 1 or 1.5 m of height over my head will clean up the lines of a rural composition by better aligning the lines of the crops in the fields with a barn.

thanks,

Sean
 
Daniel Harrison said:
I have one thought about what camera and what lens... Does it really matter so much for web based images? If I could see a 16x20" print and was impressed - Then I would really want to know what was used. but often people think that because someone took a great shot and posted it at 640x480 pixels that if they had that equipment they could get such "sharp" results. But at 640x480 pixels a plastic lens on a 2mp camera would look good with a litle PP. So I wonder how much it really matters??? Maybe we should be asking how they got the shot as opposed to what they used to get the shot?

What do you all think?

This is also why I think that if we are discussing gear then 100% crops are good not 640x480 resized images.

Gear still matters at web resolutions. At f/8 or f/11 a Nikon Coolpix 990 is an incredible macro lens/camera and is easier to aim at a fast moving insect as you can watch the LCD and the big picture simultaneously. With a 100 mm macro on a crop factor or 180 mm macro on 35 mm you are looking at postage stamp of the world (although framing the macro and opening the second eye to see the big picture can help).

Heck, think of background blur in a portrait. This is near impossible with a digicam where an f/1.8 or wider lens can do it. A digicam can get DoF that can be hard with a D/SLR.

Noise in low light is also an issue. What a DSLR can capture handlheld and dead sharp with low noise at ISO 1600 is not achievable with a digicam. On a sunny day it will matter little in most shots unless shadow detail dominates.

Does it really matter? No. At web resolutions PS skill can mask much of it. Can it make a difference? Yes. Just knowing what the limits of certain gear is can teach you a lot about how to approach certain situations. Then "Do I need a new lens or more photographic skill?" can be answered. And sometimes the professional answer is that a new lens will make it easier even though I could do it with what I have.

some thoughts,

Sean
 
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