Open Photography Forums  
HOME FORUMS NEWS FAQ SEARCH

Go Back   Open Photography Forums > Color Management Discussion > CM Theory and Practice

CM Theory and Practice Profiles, color spaces, perception, science.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 22nd, 2011, 10:00 AM
Ben Rubinstein Ben Rubinstein is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,540
Default Processing for the consumer screen.

Hi,

We all of course have calibrated screens, work in controlled lighting, etc. Our screens are far from the general consumers.

However, many of us are presenting our work not as prints but for viewing on screen. Whether it be a wedding slideshow, a virtual tour for a potential buyer of a property, etc.

As a baseline I have always processed for print as default. In other words accurately. However given certain comments on my images by consumers I'm seriously thinking of building an action/preset and applying it to all 'web' images to bring it more in line with what a consumer will see as pleasing. Given that most consumer screens are heavily over bright/contrasty and very blue in colour this would 'correct' the true rendition to something darker and warmer so that it would be more pleasing.

I can't be the first who is looking to do this on a widespread basis, can anyone fill me in on what the industry is doing? Movies for example are presented based on a far brighter screen than print accurate in my experience. There must be an industry standard for this kind of thing, a default rendition that has been proven to be a good default relative to the consumer screen, not one of which is either accurate or indeed similar to the next one.

I'd be very interested in your thoughts.
__________________
Ben Rubinstein
Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com
Blog: http://thedustylenscap.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old August 22nd, 2011, 10:08 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 32,754
Default

Ben,

What a great idea, to customize your output, beyond sRGB. One might look at the choices for HP printers and have choices like "Vivid", "Reserved", "painterly".

Actually, the choice they make will simply bring up a different set of files.

Asher
__________________
Follow us on Twitter at @opfweb

Our purpose is getting to an impressive photograph. So we encourage browsing and then feedback. Consider a link to your galleries annotated, C&C welcomed. Images posted within OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old August 22nd, 2011, 10:11 AM
Andrew Rodney Andrew Rodney is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 467
Default

There is as yet no industry solution to this issue, the industry in terms of color managed displays and web browsing is pretty dysfunctional and in flux. Best you can do is upload images in sRGB and hope for the best, hope that at least some users are calibrating their displays (properly) and viewing those images in a web browser or application that is color managed.
__________________
Andrew Rodney
Author "Color Management for Photographers"
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old August 22nd, 2011, 10:15 AM
Ben Rubinstein Ben Rubinstein is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,540
Default

Problem is that most punters aren't viewing on a calibrated screen or even close to one. I think perhaps even a darken action to try and compensate for those 'center of nuclear explosion' bright consumers screens might be in order at least?
__________________
Ben Rubinstein
Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com
Blog: http://thedustylenscap.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old August 22nd, 2011, 11:18 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 32,754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
Problem is that most punters aren't viewing on a calibrated screen or even close to one. I think perhaps even a darken action to try and compensate for those 'center of nuclear explosion' bright consumers screens might be in order at least?
Ben,

What about my idea of giving versions?

Asher
__________________
Follow us on Twitter at @opfweb

Our purpose is getting to an impressive photograph. So we encourage browsing and then feedback. Consider a link to your galleries annotated, C&C welcomed. Images posted within OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 22nd, 2011, 11:32 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico, USA
Posts: 8,196
Default

Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
What about my idea of giving versions?
Would these attempt to precompensate for various conjectured improper display responses or viewing environments at the viewer's end?

Sort of like ordering a tablecloth for a 48" diameter table. The vendor would ship several, to accommodate how big 48" was at your house.

Best regards,

Doug
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old August 22nd, 2011, 11:33 AM
Ben Rubinstein Ben Rubinstein is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,540
Default

What for? When I provide a VT to a realtor he doesn't want 2 versions one of which will be irrellevant for 99% of his clientele, he wants something that looks good on his website, is simple to use and not confusing. With 100% (non photo conscious) consumer based viewing in mind, why would we process 'calibrated' in the first place?
__________________
Ben Rubinstein
Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com
Blog: http://thedustylenscap.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old August 22nd, 2011, 11:54 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 32,754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
What for? When I provide a VT to a realtor he doesn't want 2 versions one of which will be irrellevant for 99% of his clientele, he wants something that looks good on his website, is simple to use and not confusing. With 100% (non photo conscious) consumer based viewing in mind, why would we process 'calibrated' in the first place?
Why do you think HP gives options for consumer printing, like "vvid". That makes up for the folks lousy over-bright screens when the first print looks flat! You can have a simple option too. don't make t seem such a big deal. Have your best version and a vivid bright one. how easy is that. Maybe just show the two version to your client and ask which they like best.

Asher
__________________
Follow us on Twitter at @opfweb

Our purpose is getting to an impressive photograph. So we encourage browsing and then feedback. Consider a link to your galleries annotated, C&C welcomed. Images posted within OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 22nd, 2011, 11:55 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico, USA
Posts: 8,196
Default

Hi, Ben,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
What for? When I provide a VT to a realtor he doesn't want 2 versions one of which will be irrellevant for 99% of his clientele, he wants something that looks good on his website, is simple to use and not confusing. With 100% (non photo conscious) consumer based viewing in mind, why would we process 'calibrated' in the first place?
But how will you determine what "irregular" display profile you will use to get the best impact on the greatest numbers of actual viewers. Sounds like a very large field survey would be needed. (Thus I guess your question, "has somebody already done this", to which the follow-on would be, "and will they tell us their conclusions"?)

Best regards,

Doug
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 22nd, 2011, 12:17 PM
Ben Rubinstein Ben Rubinstein is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Why do you think HP gives options for consumer printing, like "vvid". That makes up for the folks lousy over-bright screens when the first print looks flat! You can have a simple option too. don't make t seem such a big deal. Have your best version and a vivid bright one. how easy is that. Maybe just show the two version to your client and ask which they like best.

Asher
People like options for printing, they want choices of look. When someone looks at pictures of a house they will potentially buy they want to see a house, not choose from 5 different ways to view it.
__________________
Ben Rubinstein
Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com
Blog: http://thedustylenscap.com
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old August 22nd, 2011, 12:52 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 32,754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
People like options for printing, they want choices of look. When someone looks at pictures of a house they will potentially buy they want to see a house, not choose from 5 different ways to view it.
where is this going to be shown. In the realtor's office. Then you can customize it for that screen. On the web, use browser-safe colors in sRGB; that's all you can do. Netscape and the other main browser do this too. Not needed using an imac or Dell or other modern computer!

Asher
__________________
Follow us on Twitter at @opfweb

Our purpose is getting to an impressive photograph. So we encourage browsing and then feedback. Consider a link to your galleries annotated, C&C welcomed. Images posted within OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old August 22nd, 2011, 01:36 PM
Ben Rubinstein Ben Rubinstein is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,540
Default

Nope, for realtors to put on their website. Will be seen worldwide, they sell to a lot of international clients.
__________________
Ben Rubinstein
Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com
Blog: http://thedustylenscap.com
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old August 22nd, 2011, 03:48 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Munich, Germany.
Posts: 3,534
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
On the web, use browser-safe colors in sRGB; that's all you can do.
I don't think that "browser-safe colors" apply to jpeg files.

As to saving for the web, photoshop has had a menu "save for web" for some time. It does just that.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old August 22nd, 2011, 04:57 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 32,754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
I don't think that "browser-safe colors" apply to jpeg files.

As to saving for the web, photoshop has had a menu "save for web" for some time. It does just that.
.... and, I believe, chooses web-safe colors!
__________________
Follow us on Twitter at @opfweb

Our purpose is getting to an impressive photograph. So we encourage browsing and then feedback. Consider a link to your galleries annotated, C&C welcomed. Images posted within OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old August 23rd, 2011, 01:24 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Munich, Germany.
Posts: 3,534
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
.... and, I believe, chooses web-safe colors!
I don't think so. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_colors
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old August 23rd, 2011, 01:40 AM
StuartRae StuartRae is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 1,024
Default

I believe that the terms "web-safe" and "browser-safe" apply only to indexed colour images such as GIF.

Regards,

Stuart
__________________
-----------------------------------
C&C and edits always welcome
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
8 foot wide projection screen FS Alain Briot Buy and Sell Photo Equipment: Excess gear by participating members. Pictures please! 0 August 4th, 2009 03:54 PM
3rd helicopter shot ? Nicolas Claris Shooting with a HY6 and a Sinarback eMotion 75 LV. A diary of Nicolas Claris experience. 19 May 14th, 2008 10:26 AM
Philosophical question: style and taste in image processing Theodore Diehl Image Processing and Workflow 7 April 24th, 2008 01:54 PM
Ec-L Cross-split prism focusing screen (my experience) Dawid Loubser Canon Eos Mount DSLRs 6 May 5th, 2007 10:34 AM
Anti reflective screen for Canon Ben Rubinstein Canon Eos Mount DSLRs 17 August 19th, 2006 06:02 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:56 AM.


Posting images or text grants license to OPF, yet of such remain with its creator. Still, all assembled discussion 2006-2017 Asher Kelman (all rights reserved) Posts with new theme or unusual image might be moved/copied to a new thread!