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Dealing with criticism of one's own work.

Tom,

I too have noticed these little jabs here and there either about Asher's nudes (which I find very beautiful and not at all in bad taste) or about him having money or belonging to an elite class of gentlemen because he may go to the opera etc.,

I don't like it at all. I find it very rude. It feels very petty to me.

Tom, you are certainly not a country bumpkin or hick. A simple read of your website shows that you are an educated, knowledgeable man and eloquent writer. These jabs are beneath you. Surely, you understand that the human form (man and woman alike) are just as beautiful as a autumn leaf you would find on the ground. If not, it is simple to say, I don't like nudes and even refrain from looking if you think it's not okay. Instead, I've heard this girls breasts called tits in a disrespectful way. Who says that? perhaps an 11 year old? that is blushing and thinks it's funny. I don't. I actually found that the images of her are extremely innocent and do not attempt to pull your attention to anything but a mood. But that's beside the point.

Jabbing another is just not okay. You can criticize the work, but obviously in a respectful way. You can like it or not, but the jabbing seems very personal and hurtful. I read in one of your posts, something about becoming a better person, makes you a better photographer. I do not consider these pokes to be something to be proud of.

sans rancune,
Maggie
 

Tom dinning

Registrant*
Then I must leave this place for another.
This is who I am. I am not who you think I am or should be. I cannot be who you want me to be. How I see myself is the only way I know. I don't expect everyone to like it. That would be futile.
The people who are intimately important to me are enough to fill my life with contentment and joy. That's enough.

I make no apologies. I leave gracefully.
Thanks for the time.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Then I must leave this place for another.
This is who I am. I am not who you think I am or should be. I cannot be who you want me to be. How I see myself is the only way I know. I don't expect everyone to like it. That would be futile.
The people who are intimately important to me are enough to fill my life with contentment and joy. That's enough.

I make no apologies. I leave gracefully.
Thanks for the time.

Really Tom,

You are welcome to stay! No apology asked or demanded! But to leave gracefully, that would be a necessity. We really want you here, but as as a real person :)

Not asking you to do anything that you wouldn't do in front of parents at your school or the Board of Education or if you came to any of our homes in Paris, London, Riyadh or Montreal. You can dish out criticism mightily, but it seems you can't take it!

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
A single snap of the new grandchild or a favourite bloom shared on Facebook with a friend or family member has just as much value in the social context as an arty farty shot of a brick wall or a blonde stretched out on a silk sheet and shot from atop a ladder.

You wrote that you value the shots of the family members because they tell a personal story. I found the post about the "blonde stretched out on a silk sheet and shot from atop a ladder" a story which was just as fascinating. I don't know where Asher met that girl, I can imagine it must have been difficult to find a lit a place with the required high ceiling, I wonder about the scene with the photographer perched on top of that ladder. And there is probably as much emotional investment in designing that scene, finding the right color of silk sheets, etc... than there is when a mother dresses and combs her daughter for a birthday picture.

For each and every picture, it is always about a personal story.

But you never answered the question: "why would these personal stories be of interest to others?". Why would Mrs Smith, from Arkansas, be interested in the birthday pictures of the daughter of Mrs Dubois, from France, who she does not know and will never meet? Or why would she be interested in the space between the buildings of north Australia? Especially, when you consider that there are billions of pictures she can chose from.

Billions and billions of pictures which are all competing for the attention of others. Which are all competing for interestingness, for the time taken to view them, for people to actually stop and say "Mrs Dubois, what is the recipe for this birthday cake?" or "nice and pleasant country, Việt Nam, is it really as peaceful as the pictures show?".
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Then I must leave this place for another.
This is who I am. I am not who you think I am or should be. I cannot be who you want me to be. How I see myself is the only way I know. I don't expect everyone to like it. That would be futile.
The people who are intimately important to me are enough to fill my life with contentment and joy. That's enough.

I make no apologies. I leave gracefully.
Thanks for the time.

Good bye and good riddance.

And I don't make no ****ing apologies to ***holes either.

And I do do not give respect to the disrespectful..never.
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
And there I was thinking all the time that ' tits ' was something of concern to ornithologists.

I continue to be amazed at the vocabulary and eloquence of people.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
And there I was thinking all the time that ' tits ' was something of concern to ornithologists.

I continue to be amazed at the vocabulary and eloquence of people.

Fahim,

I know there's a great range of comfort in the customary clothing or women in our many different societies. Still, we expect all humans, especially women to be treated with dignity. Our words can be hurtful when it reduces a woman to her value as a sex object. So the word "tit" as applied to the female breast must be considered in that setting. I think it does more than trivialize. In fact, I admit an abhorrence for that word applied to women. It seems to be a habit that folk do not realize is demeaning and objectifying. Just because we might be allowed to see and admire a woman's figure, does not mean we can show her any less respect than her fully clothed and protected sisters.

Of course, if one is interested in pornography, then one can choose any vocabulary. But that's not part of OPF. We do not ban the word, because it's needed for birds, LOL! Besides, there might be a fair use of the word besides that of which I have no knowledge. Still, I doubt it's use is needed in critiquing any of my pictures.

Asher
 

fahim mohammed

Well-known member
Fahim,

I know there's a great range of comfort in the customary clothing or women in our many different societies. Still, we expect all humans, especially women to be treated with dignity. Our words can be hurtful when it reduces a woman to her value as a sex object. So the word "tit" as applied to the female breast must be considered in that setting. I think it does more than trivialize. In fact, I admit an abhorrence for that word applied to women. It seems to be a habit that folk do not realize is demeaning and objectifying. Just because we might be allowed to see and admire a woman's figure, does not mean we can show her any less respect than her fully clothed and protected sisters.

Of course, if one is interested in pornography, then one can choose any vocabulary. But that's not part of OPF. We do not ban the word, because it's needed for birds, LOL! Besides, there might be a fair use of the word besides that of which I have no knowledge. Still, I doubt it's use is needed in critiquing any of my pictures.

Asher

Asher, I agree with what you say here...for the most part. Where we disagree in this context is an entirely different issue and irrelevant to what you correctly address...disrespect for others.

To refer to ( or towards ) any person in a derogatory manner is unacceptable to me. As I am sure, it is to most OPF visitors.

There are ' words ' that are benign superficially but have derogatory connotations.

Female or male, is immaterial. Words used in and signifying a derogatory slant towards another person/s , hopefully, are not what we here at OPF should tolerate.

Take care.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I have reread this entire thread and realize how much I have learned from everyone. I will now try to write my critique, less directed to my own likes and dislikes and more toward observing what's to be seen in the picture and how it might stand related to the photographer's other work and related art.

That's my goal, although I'd hope that we still get abundant personal experience feedback too! I look forward to hearing your reactions to my work and you can critique it any way you wish. Of course, all ideas get to be filtered and we use what's usable and the rest is put aside.

Asher
 
Then I must leave this place for another.
This is who I am. I am not who you think I am or should be. I cannot be who you want me to be. How I see myself is the only way I know. I don't expect everyone to like it. That would be futile.
The people who are intimately important to me are enough to fill my life with contentment and joy. That's enough.

I make no apologies. I leave gracefully.
Thanks for the time.

Tom,
Pull yourself together! Don't expect you to be so thin skinned when you're so thick tongued. I've got relatives who moved down under years ago, and they have developed a recognizable tone. Suck it up and wait for me. I'll try to post more of my work and you can beat it to shreds. I'm happy to get any response, better than no comment at all. Stay on board, I get very annoyed at all the PC stuff, but yeah,I've been known to step over the line from time to time. It's my age.
Want to have you around.

Best, Bill
 
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