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What Video Camera/DSLR for Moving Pictures n Low Lght?

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
For music performances on stage, low light is the norm, although the lighting folk think it's all fine. Generally I'd use something like ISO 1600, underexposed by 1-2 stops and recover in Capture One.

So for video, what camera would work for longer than the 15 minutes of the Canon 5DI in HD mode? Do other DSLRs have the similar time limit/4GB max file length in HD mode

1. Under $1,000

2. $1000-2400

Thanks,

Asher
 

Nill Toulme

New member
I believe all the Canons have that limitation. Don't know about the Nikons, but I expect they're similar. You either need an assistant to hit start/stop for each number, or you want a dedicated video camera.

Nill

p.s. But maybe this little Sony?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony-a55-preview.shtml

...or, more likely, this one?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/camcorders/vg10.shtml

Or this nice Canon?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/camcorders/canon-xf300.shtml
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
The little Sony is more my budget. I just need to be able to show musician technique and make interesting movies. My idea is to get several and then shoot from different fixed angles. I wonder about the Sony A55 limitations for time. Actually, for most performances, 15 minutes is enough. For longer performances, like an orchestra piece, I could have my two cameras in the same position and just alternate between then with some overlap.

Interesting that the Sony was considered to be better than the 7D!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I was surprised that this A55 sony is really so controversial! It's so well written

CommanderSpike at DPReview said:
There is no mistake. I know it's 25p and 30p on the sensor in a interlaced AVCHD wrapper. My issues are as follows (and they are major issues):
30p is almost universally hated by cinema guys, it is not superior to 25p or 24p, it is not a cinematic standard and it does not have the same cinematic aesthetics. It looks worse - much worse. Canon brought out a firmware update for the 5D Mark II to add 25/24p and we went crazy for it. Sony must have been asleep whilst this was happening.
To remove the interlaced wrapper in order to edit the video in Final Cut Pro or similar NLE software, you need to do time-consuming and complex de-interlacing whilst transcoding the footage which is totally unnecessary and a ball ache. It adds more work, more time and more confusion to the process of editing footage on a PC or Mac. When the Panasonic GH1 hack removed the 60i wrapper and added native 24/25p AVCHD (the Bluray standard), we went crazy for it. Sony must have been asleep whilst this was happening.
The bit rate of the codecs in the A55 and A580 are too low. 17Mbit AVCHD is the same as the Panasonic GH1 before the hack. Now we have 44Mbit and it looks MUCH better. You only have to see sample footage on Vimeo to tell this is the case. The Canon EOS line has universally stuck to 40Mbit+ H264 (the same core codec as AVCHD) and it looks much cleaner, with very little compression artefacts. Yes I know a low bit rate codec saves memory card space, but at least let us choose between image quality and saving disk space!
Meanwhile the MP4 progressive mode is 12Mbit 1440x1080 (like the cheap Sony compacts!), and has visibly more noise.
I am extremely disappointed with the whole thing and I honestly do not think anyone will buy an A55 for video, not when there is competition like this:
Nikon D3100 - low price and native 24p full HD, improved image processing to remove moire and aliasing artefacts
Panasonic GH1 - full manual control, decent AVCHD and with the hack, image quality and effortless editing of footage is present, plus the camera comes in at a very low price considering 2nd hand cost of kit lens which has full-time AF in video mode.

Canon 550D - full manual control, great codec, 24p, list goes on… and cheap too

Canon 5D Mark II - only one of it's kind, full frame and full HD. Used in Hollywood circles.
Runs rings around the Sony DSLRs and has full manual controls, 24p.

Canon 7D - as 550D but weather sealed and slightly better high ISO.

Who'd buy a A55 for video now?

Now that guy seems to know what he's talking about or else has part ownership of canon, LOL!

Asher
 

Nigel Allan

Member
I was told by a salesman here in the UK, although I never confirmed it, that the reason all DSLRs are time limited on their video capture is due to tax reasons, and that camcorders are taxed differently from still cameras. Therefore enabling longer video capture puts them into a higher tax bracket.

As I say I never bothered to check on the veracity of this but there might be something in it
 
I was told by a salesman here in the UK, although I never confirmed it, that the reason all DSLRs are time limited on their video capture is due to tax reasons, and that camcorders are taxed differently from still cameras. Therefore enabling longer video capture puts them into a higher tax bracket.

As I say I never bothered to check on the veracity of this but there might be something in it

Hi Nigel,

AFAIK it's correct that for EU imports there is a different import duty associated with video cameras with digital video input capabilities (VCR like). Whether that is still the case in 2010, I don't know.

The limitation of the recording time however, is a result of the FAT filesystem used on the memory cards (unless additional limitations are built in by the camera firmware). There is a 4GB per file sizelimit for FAT based systems, same as on a computer harddisk.

@ Asher:
Since I don't have a 5D2 I've never tried, but can you shoot tethered video? If so, then the filesystem of your notebook probably doesn't pose the 4GB filesize limitation. Not that I think shots that long make for dynamic video, but it would allow to record a full length performance.

Cheers,
Bart
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Thanks Bart!

I have taken videos during a long performance and now will check how long each lasted just saving to the CF card. It might be that with a lot of the place dark, the video lasts longer.

Since I don't have a 5D2 I've never tried, but can you shoot tethered video? If so, then the filesystem of your notebook probably doesn't pose the 4GB filesize limitation. Not that I think shots that long make for dynamic video, but it would allow to record a full length performance.

Cheers,
Bart

Well I wrote to Canon and here's the reply:

Canon ProductInformation wrote:

Dear Asher Kelman:

Thank you for your inquiry. We value you as a Canon customer and
appreciate the opportunity to assist you. I am pleased to assist you
with shooting tethered with your EOS 5D Mark II.

When the camera is connected and you open EOS Utility you should see
Camera Settings / Remote Shooting. Select this option to open the
shooting window. After you start shooting a movie, the movie will stop
recording automatically if the file size reaches 4GB or the movie time
exceeds 29 minutes and 59 seconds. To do basic levels adjust, crop and
balance you will want to use the Digital Photo Professional software.

The great thing about shooting tethered is being able to really see the quality of the picture and focus. I'll have to just try it.

I'd really like to have several windows to follow more than one camera and have an account of where I'm up to in the file size! Then I could switch over.

Buying a Rebel Ti2 or even a D60 is within my reach!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I was told by a salesman here in the UK, although I never confirmed it, that the reason all DSLRs are time limited on their video capture is due to tax reasons, and that camcorders are taxed differently from still cameras. Therefore enabling longer video capture puts them into a higher tax bracket.

As I say I never bothered to check on the veracity of this but there might be something in it

Nigel,

Bad that prices of cameras are higher n the U.K. and they screw up cameras according to location. All cameras should have the same capabilities everywhere! They even change the format of vdeo for europe v. USA. How stupid n a time of travel! At least, AFAIK, Canon lets you choose PAL v. NTSC. Am I right?

Asher
 
The great thing about shooting tethered is being able to really see the quality of the picture and focus. I'll have to just try it.

It would be interesting to learn if there is a time limitation built in for tethered shooting. That would be simple to remove in the software for tethered shooting, All it takes is someone (more likely a lot of people) notifying Canon about the fact that it's not needed on a hard disk with a non-FAT file system (like NTFS. and probably HFS and EXT). The file size limitation is a precaution that could be removed after a check of the file sytem in use. That might take a bit more programming because Operating Systems may store temprary files on another medium than the one the file is finally going to be saved on. And then there is the potential burden on support for lost files when migrating between media.

Interesting stuff.

Cheers,
Bart
 

Nigel Allan

Member
Thanks Bart!

I have taken videos during a long performance and now will check how long each lasted just saving to the CF card........ After you start shooting a movie, the movie will stop
recording automatically if the file size reaches 4GB or the movie time
exceeds 29 minutes and 59 seconds. ....

Now I recall this is what I was told...if it goes over 30 minutes then it is classed as a camcorder and taxed higher which is why it is limited to 29' 59"
 
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