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  #1  
Old February 11th, 2018, 09:15 PM
Edward Bussa Edward Bussa is offline
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Default Samsung UHD: My new monitor

My new monitor:

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  #2  
Old February 12th, 2018, 08:46 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is online now
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Hi, Ed,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Bussa View Post
My new monitor:

Well, the URL to the picture is probably of record-breaking length! Another societal achievement by Google, the all seeing and all-knowing.

So tell us more about this machine's properties.

With regard to applications not involved in image processing, I have found that is is all too common that they do not in all respects behave properly when the display unit ("monitor") has a resolution in the "UHD" range.

Have you run into any problems in that regard?

In any case, congratulations.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #3  
Old February 12th, 2018, 01:40 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Bussa View Post
My new monitor:

Ed,

Which of all the many Samsung UHD monitors is this and what is the claimed color gamut?

Do you happen to have links to any reviews that guided you, or did you just upgrade your previous Samsung because you were happy?

Does it come with a screen "calibration" spectrophotometer or color meter or you just know from good experience or reviews that the colors are reliable?

My Eizo has a built in "puck" which pops out automatically every so often and recalibrates the colors!

I know folk have been happy with Dell monitors and some folk don't even bother to check profiles.

Frankly, I am often too lazy to move from my 17" MacBook Pro to my desktop and so apart from using a Gretag McBeth color checker to make profiles for any unusual light and lenses, I never change/adjust colors except on a calibrated high end screen in controlled light, as today's cameras are far better than most of our editing skills to try to alter color. Often all we are doing is damaging the good color the camera delivered. Very rarely I might increase the color temp from under 4,800 to at least 5,000 to warm it up

I DO envy that big screen, as it is definitely needed to go through catalogs!

I may get one, myself, just for the pleasure and luxury of being able to keep the catalogs big and open while I edit on a separate profiled Eizo monitor!

Enjoy your new machine!

Asher
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  #4  
Old February 12th, 2018, 03:38 PM
Edward Bussa Edward Bussa is offline
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It is early days - just delivered Friday. I chose this model because it was capable of Chroma 4:4:4. I chose Samsung on the advice of a colleague.

Apparently on Samsung you need to throw it into UHD mode to get Chroma 4:4:4. Once that was toggled, the display of text is mostly artifact free. Images and video look amazing.

I have not calibrated it yet but hope to in the near future. It has already revealed some images in my library that I had been overlooking!

Ed.
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Old February 12th, 2018, 03:43 PM
Edward Bussa Edward Bussa is offline
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This model is the UN65MU700D. It has the Color Drive Pro, which I think is the designation that says it will do Chroma 4:4:4.

Here is an excellent website that has reviewed this (or similarly equipped) model:
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sa...comparison_681
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  #6  
Old February 12th, 2018, 03:44 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Bussa View Post
It is early days - just delivered Friday. I chose this model because it was capable of Chroma 4:4:4. I chose Samsung on the advice of a colleague.

Apparently on Samsung you need to throw it into UHD mode to get Chroma 4:4:4. Once that was toggled, the display of text is mostly artifact free. Images and video look amazing.

I have not calibrated it yet but hope to in the near future. It has already revealed some images in my library that I had been overlooking!

Ed.
All super exciting! Which model did you settle on?

Asher
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  #7  
Old February 12th, 2018, 03:45 PM
Edward Bussa Edward Bussa is offline
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So, yes, its big and bold. But that is not really why I decided to try this route. I have presbyopia, which is to say, I'm over 45.

I bought this monitor so I can spend time in front of my computer programming and not have to wear my glasses. As far as I can tell, I should be able to work without glasses now!
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  #8  
Old February 12th, 2018, 04:47 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Bussa View Post
So, yes, its big and bold. But that is not really why I decided to try this route. I have presbyopia, which is to say, I'm over 45.

I bought this monitor so I can spend time in front of my computer programming and not have to wear my glasses. As far as I can tell, I should be able to work without glasses now!
This is all new for me. Even the specs are orientated to how a movie or video could be seen. This monitor is going to work best in dim light. Wear a dark shirt and you will be fine!

Don't change the color balance of your pictures based on this unless it's for printing right before your eyes. If you use a grey card or better a color checker passport card, rely on those for color for preparing that rare picture for actual print.

You are in for loads of fun and joy!

Asher
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  #9  
Old February 19th, 2018, 05:05 AM
Edward Bussa Edward Bussa is offline
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I am planning on calibrating it - I'll report back on how that goes!
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  #10  
Old April 8th, 2018, 08:16 PM
Edward Bussa Edward Bussa is offline
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Lightbulb Plumbing skills wanted ...

... and required ...

I sprinted.

Color Calibration, ... , checK
Windows Color Calibration, perfect for when you have no controls on the device.

Mounted, ... , checK
Plumb Crooked. Needs to be rehung, don't know if I'll ever get around to it.

Enjoyment, ... , checK
I am able to do non-critical color work on it. Also, not sure how color correct my Surface Book is, decent from the factory I assume, with a bit slight tweak from Windows Color Calibration also.

I really dig the form factor as I see more sharply farther away. Others can see well also - because its so large, it fills the room.

__________

Off Topic: Here is an oldy but a goodie: http://www.openphotographyforums.com...2&postcount=16

Thats actually my former monitor that I can still use, I just need to find the profiles! They've moved since I moved exclusively to a laptop.
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  #11  
Old April 8th, 2018, 10:45 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Tell us about Chroma 4:4:4

I am not knowledgable as to these specifications and the benefits!

Asher
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  #12  
Old April 9th, 2018, 08:24 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is online now
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Tell us about Chroma 4:4:4

I am not knowledgable as to these specifications and the benefits!
I do not know the significance of this as a capability of a printer.

That notation (and it works in a very odd way) describes the way in which the chrominance information (which determines the "color", in the sense that civilians would use the term - that is, not embracing luminance) of a pixel is recorded in (among others) JPEG format. The designation "4:4:4" means that the chrominance information is specified for each pixel of the image. In contrast, the designation "4:2:0" means that the chrominance information is specified only once for 4 pixels.

(For our purposes here, we can think of chroma as a synonym for chrominance.)

In that case, the "resolution" of the chrominance information is (in both horizontal and vertical directions) half that that of the luminance information. And the decoder in effect "interpolates" to estimate the chrominance for the pixels for which it is not specified in the file.

This approach is called "Chrominance Subsampling". The object is to reduce the data content of the encoded file (and thus the file size). The scheme exploits the fact that in human vision the resolution is less for chrominance than for luminance.

An intermediate mode is designated "4:2:2". In that, the chrominance information is only specified for every two pixels. In that case, the resolution of the chrominance information in the horizontal direction is half that of the luminance information, but in the vertical direction is the same as the luminance.

Conceptually, the use of the 4:4:4 arrangement, compared to the more common 4:2:2, in a JPEG file could give better color rendition in a delivered display or print.

Note that as I have described it, the notion of chrominance subsampling pertains only to the image as encoded in a JPEG file (and some other formats, I think, as well). It does not pertain to the delivery of the "decoded" image to a display unit ("monitor") in the traditional forms (VGA, for example).

But perhaps it has some implication on the more modern types of interface to the display unit (such as HDMI). And then there might be the issue of whether the display unit can in fact exploit the "more refined" chrominance information of the 4:4:4 form.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #13  
Old April 9th, 2018, 10:19 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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The bandwidth of the HDMI connection is large, but finite. If one needs to move around 4K pixels (that is about 8 millions pixels), 60 times per second with 16 bits resolution per pixel, it will not do. Therefore some info is left out, colour subsampling is a trick to leave out some information to which the human eye is not too sensitive.

There is an article with pictures here: https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/chroma-subsampling
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  #14  
Old April 9th, 2018, 10:44 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
The bandwidth of the HDMI connection is large, but finite. If one needs to move around 4K pixels (that is about 8 millions pixels), 60 times per second with 16 bits resolution per pixel, it will not do. Therefore some info is left out, colour subsampling is a trick to leave out some information to which the human eye is not too sensitive.

There is an article with pictures here: https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/chroma-subsampling
Jerome,

You are such a splendid fellow!

I had many teachers as succinct as helpful as you. But I come from a story-telling modern European Jewish family, (where both Shakespeare, Locke, modern English poetry, side-tracks of debate, discussion, illustrative stories and experiences are customarily the norm and enjoyed)!

In times of need, your approach is far more apt, efficient and even life-saving!

“Thanks!”, Jerome,

..........”that”, sums it up!

I now understand the designation 4:4:4!

Asher
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  #15  
Old April 9th, 2018, 02:23 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is online now
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Hi, Asher,

You're entirely welcome.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #16  
Old April 9th, 2018, 02:53 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is online now
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Hi, Jerome,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
The bandwidth of the HDMI connection is large, but finite. If one needs to move around 4K pixels (that is about 8 millions pixels), 60 times per second with 16 bits resolution per pixel, it will not do. Therefore some info is left out, colour subsampling is a trick to leave out some information to which the human eye is not too sensitive.

There is an article with pictures here: https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/chroma-subsampling
Interesting article.

It says:
The first number (in this case 4), refers to the size of the sample. The two following numbers both refer to chroma. They are both relative to the first number and define the horizontal and vertical sampling respectively.
Well, that is sort of true but not in the way that might be inferred from the statement. The second number indeed states the relative horizontal sampling rate. But the third number does not state the relative vertical sampling rate. Rather, whether the third number is the same as the second number or is 0 describes the relative vertical sampling rate. In the first case (4:n:n), that is the same as the "base" (luma) sampling rate, and in the second case (4:n:0) it is half that.

The first number represents the width in pixels of the block within which the other numbers work, which is that many pixels wide (although only the value "4" is ever used) and (always, by definition) two pixels high. (Yes, just as illustrated.)

The second number is the number of chroma values over the four pixels for the first row of the block. Practical values are 2 and 4.

The third number is the number of chroma values over the four pixels for the second row of the block. Practical values are (a) the same as the second number and (b) 0.

The following paragraph is quite accurate, and very descriptive. The adjacent figures are very clear.

The first statement I cited is commonly seen. It is true, but not very helpful. It is better than "Although the moon is smaller than the Earth, it is farther away."

Often authors have heard it, enjoy its seeming clarity (as with the quote just above), have never thought about whether it is really accurate, and keep it in their drawer of snippets to be used the next time they write about chroma subsampling.

This article may also be of interest regarding this matter:

http://dougkerr.net/Pumpkin/index.ht...nceSubsampling

Best regards,

Doug
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  #17  
Old April 9th, 2018, 04:14 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
Hi, Asher,

You're entirely welcome.

Best regards,

Doug
Doug,

Before I fully digested your writing in post # 12 above, I was rapidly distracted by Jerome’s new link! (I admit That not only muses get my full attention and make me forget what I was about to do!)


You are famous for many fully explored, generous, artfully penned and substantial replies that are documents in themselves with depth and breadth.

Jerome has, by contrast an additional unique ability: to “quip” a sense of immediate clarity, and it maybe, in this instance, a single link to another well-explained source!

I do neither as well as the two of you!

Both wondrous to me and so appreciated!

Asher
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  #18  
Old April 9th, 2018, 10:14 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is online now
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Doug,

Before I fully digested your writing in post # 12 above, I was rapidly distracted by Jerome’s new link! (I admit That not only muses get my full attention and make me forget what I was about to do!)
Just playin' with ya!

Best regards,

Doug
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  #19  
Old April 9th, 2018, 10:37 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
This article may also be of interest regarding this matter:

http://dougkerr.net/Pumpkin/index.ht...nceSubsampling

Indeed it is a better description. Thank you.
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  #20  
Old April 10th, 2018, 09:40 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is online now
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Hi, Jerome,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
Indeed it is a better description. Thank you.
Thanks.

Best regards,

Doug
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