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Eos 1d4 replaced by 1dx, no 1ds3 replacement yet?

Will Thompson

Well Known Member
The 1D series replacement is obviously the 1DX.

The 1DS series replacement has not yet been announced? (THE 1DX IS NOT IT!)

So what is the wish list for the EOS 1 series high megapixel (40+) replacement body?
 
The 1D series replacement is obviously the 1DX.

The 1DS series replacement has not yet been announced? (THE 1DX IS NOT IT!)

So what is the wish list for the EOS 1 series high megapixel (40+) replacement body?

Hi Will,

While I agree that the 1D X is not a replacement for the 1Ds Mark III, Canon has stated that it is the replacement for both the 1D and 1Ds line.

To me it looks like Canon is focusing on a transition towards video enabled DSLR cameras, so a higher MP version of the 1D X seems unlikely for some time.

Cheers,
Bart
 

Will Thompson

Well Known Member
To me it looks like Canon is focusing on a transition towards video enabled DSLR cameras, so a higher MP version of the 1D X seems unlikely for some time.

Cheers,
Bart

Hi Bart, this is contradictory to my info that one will come some time but will not have the 1DS name!

Perhaps a "EOS 1S"

So what features do you hope for in a high MP EOS?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Guys,

I'm imagining a new camera for about $12,000 and 80 MP, duplicate image stabilization systems, (lens and camera) and choice of pixel binning for dim light.

Asher
 
Hi Bart, this is contradictory to my info that one will come some time but will not have the 1DS name!

Hi Will,

According to the press release, the EOS-1D X replaces both the 1D and 1Ds line:
Press Release said:
LAKE SUCCESS, N.Y., October 18, 2011 – Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in digital imaging, is proud to introduce a completely revolutionized EOS-1D series camera, the Canon EOS-1D X Digital SLR camera.* As the new leader in Canon's arsenal of professional DSLRs, the EOS-1D X will be a high-speed multimedia juggernaut replacing both the EOS-1Ds Mark III and EOS-1D Mark IV models in Canon's lineup.

So contrary to your subject line there is no specific 1Ds3 replacement to be expected, it has already been done. That doesn't mean there will never be a newer model replacing the 1D X, I'm sure there will be, but not something just around the corner.

Canon seems to be struggling with the implementation of a radically better sensor design, like the newer Nikon, Pentax, and Sony ones with much improved Dynamic range, despite smaller sampling pitch. Another issue that keeps creeping up with the current Canon sensors is pattern noise when boosting the shadows too much.

Perhaps a "EOS 1S"

So what features do you hope for in a high MP EOS?

I also read the rumours sites, mostly for entertainment. I hope we'll get better dynamic range and higher MP sensors. It seems like the latest AF implementation is really a step forward so that is unlikely to change much, perhaps the capability to use AutoFocus at f/8 would be nice for the users of 2x extenders on long f/4 telelenses, without the current need to switch to Kenko converters.

Cheers,
Bart
 

Bob Latham

New member
...... It seems like the latest AF implementation is really a step forward so that is unlikely to change much, .....
It certainly has pushed subject tracking to a new level. The only retrograde steps for me personally are the lack of AF beyond f/5.6 and the black focus point illumination....makes it very hard to see what's going on when shooting at night or against predominantly dark backgrounds.

......perhaps the capability to use AutoFocus at f/8 would be nice for the users of 2x extenders on long f/4 telelenses, without the current need to switch to Kenko converters.
It's with a wry smile that I remember the MkIII Extenders being announced and lauding the improvements with the impending mkII Super-telephoto's.....and now the body won't AF on two of these offerings. I've retained a 1DMkIV for the bird outings.

Bob
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Bart,

I'd have thought that by now, enterprising programmers would be supplying all sorts of firmware extras. I know that we have some firmware add-on programs for movie making, like Magic Lantern, but switching on the focus lights would not seem to have been such a big deal!

Hi Asher,

One would think so, but there must have been a reason why they didn't do that from the onset. It's a bit puzzling.

Cheers,
Bart
 

Bob Latham

New member
Hi Bob,

It sounds like they heard you (and others):
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/EOS1DX_firmware

Cheers,
Bart
Indeed Bart.....I'm a much happier "bunny" now.

Bart,

I'd have thought that by now, enterprising programmers would be supplying all sorts of firmware extras. I know that we have some firmware add-on programs for movie making, like Magic Lantern, but switching on the focus lights would not seem to have been such a big deal!

Asher
I guess that the newer transmissive layers on the focus screens are the issue, Asher. The new firmware pulses the illuminated focus points and I believe that the metering occurs in between the illuminated states.

Bob
 

Will Thompson

Well Known Member
Bart and the group, here is the current linup in film camera nomenclature.

Yet to be announced high MP EOS camera (actual replacement to the 1Ds slot)

1 Series Slot aka 1V = 1DX

EOS 3 Slot = 5DmkIII

New no film Slot = 6D (start of the pro series, ie no built in flash)

A2E = 7D (top of the semi pro cameras, ie has built in flash)

Elan/2/7 Slot = 60D

Rebel series = T.....
 
Guys,

I'm imagining a new camera for about $12,000 and 80 MP, duplicate image stabilization systems, (lens and camera) and choice of pixel binning for dim light.

Asher
Would this improve the Image quality Asher? ...I doubt it. It could improve sharpness (with some lenses) a bit ...but all other aspects of IQ? After all I don't see why 1DX is not a replacement for 1DS... it is a better camera in all aspects of photography ...no? I think that the only thing Canon (very wisely) did, is to abandon the unique to them (and stupid IMO) intermediate size sensor that they where using between FF and APS-c, ...thus saving lots of money for different parts on their bodies...
 

Bob Latham

New member
Simply, it is aruond 18 MP short.

Historicly the 1Ds has been 2X the res of Canon's highest frame rate body, So the 1Ds replacemt should be around 36MP at 7 fps!

I suspect that they looked at the current lens offerings and chose a pixel density that those lenses could do justice to. Allowing for cleaner images at higher Iso levels seems to make more sense than offering resolution that can't be provided for.

Bob
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I suspect that they looked at the current lens offerings and chose a pixel density that those lenses could do justice to. Allowing for cleaner images at higher Iso levels seems to make more sense than offering resolution that can't be provided for.

Bob

Bob, there's no evidence, AFAIK, that the 5DII is limited by the lenses available. So why decrease to 18MP unless it's for speed performance and the sports market.

Even without looking at MTF charts, I doubt that the best Canon L lenses are a barrier to a 36MP Canon professional body. They just didn't imagine that Nikon would get there in front of them!

Asher
 
Bob, there's no evidence, AFAIK, that the 5DII is limited by the lenses available. So why decrease to 18MP unless it's for speed performance and the sports market.

Even without looking at MTF charts, I doubt that the best Canon L lenses are a barrier to a 36MP Canon professional body. They just didn't imagine that Nikon would get there in front of them!

Asher
I believe that the "megapixel war" is long over Asher... Makers IMO do choose their pixel size with respect to what they want to achieve out of their designs and serve the possible target group the better they can... That said, I have the strong opinion that D800E is a well designed camera, but the D800 should have the D4 sensor in it, thus providing a better supplement to the "E" version... now it is struggling to compete internally with a superior product that aims to the same target group.
 

Bob Latham

New member
Bob, there's no evidence, AFAIK, that the 5DII is limited by the lenses available. So why decrease to 18MP unless it's for speed performance and the sports market.

Even without looking at MTF charts, I doubt that the best Canon L lenses are a barrier to a 36MP Canon professional body. They just didn't imagine that Nikon would get there in front of them!

Asher
Asher,

Have a read of DXo's "Perceptual Megapixel" tome. http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en...r-DxOMark-s-Perceptual-Megapixel-can-help-you

Looking through the various lens' scores seems to show that there's little to be gained by pushing out the Mp boat.

Bob
 
Asher,

Have a read of DXo's "Perceptual Megapixel" tome. http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en...r-DxOMark-s-Perceptual-Megapixel-can-help-you

Looking through the various lens' scores seems to show that there's little to be gained by pushing out the Mp boat.

Bob
+1... In addition, I am not sure if higher resolution sensors contribute to better photographs, in fact I am not sure that increasing sharpness as such further than it now is with respect to light sensitive areas, has any contribution at all to better pictures... IMO, "photography" is different to sharpness as long as it's not "muddy"...
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Look here


Canon-EOS-1S.jpeg

47 MP, just enough to have bragging rights over Nikon!

Canon EOS 1S Rumored Specs

46.1MP (previous rumor)
5fps
16-bit RAW files
ISO 100-12800
$9,000 retail price

Could be, why not?

Asher
 
Look here


Canon-EOS-1S.jpeg

47 MP, just enough to have bragging rights over Nikon!

Canon EOS 1S Rumored Specs

46.1MP (previous rumor)
5fps
16-bit RAW files
ISO 100-12800
$9,000 retail price

Could be, why not?

Asher
I don't see why any maker would what to put a slow sensor in a fast body... clearly that was a mistake in the previous generation of cameras (1ds3, d3x), if Canon would like to compete with D800E, shouldn't they choose a body in the same category that would appeal better to the market price wise? ....why would a customer pay a lot more for an overkill (to his needs) body? Besides, some where disappointed by D800's too high resolution, ...why would Canon want to disappoint a larger section of the market? ....shouldn't they "stay" near D800's analysis if they where to offer a 5diii alternative?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I don't see why any maker would what to put a slow sensor in a fast body... clearly that was a mistake in the previous generation of cameras (1ds3, d3x), if Canon would like to compete with D800E, shouldn't they choose a body in the same category that would appeal better to the market price wise? ....why would a customer pay a lot more for an overkill (to his needs) body? Besides, some where disappointed by D800's too high resolution, ...why would Canon want to disappoint a larger section of the market? ....shouldn't they "stay" near D800's analysis if they where to offer a 5diii alternative?

Theodorus,

There's a pro market for high resolution images of landscapes which can be very detail rich. There, moving benches and flowers in the wind can give an advantage to relatively high speeds and ISO compared to a MF camera. I'd love such a camera that was 16 BIT with a good dynamic range. Also the police and homeland security would love such a camera with telephoto lenses scanning the crowds at every sports stadium for wanted criminals or suspected terrorists. They do that now and use facial recognition to find their catches! with more detail, they can scan more of the crowd per shot as their Gigapan chugs through its sweep of all the fans!

Asher
 
Theodorus,

There's a pro market for high resolution images of landscapes which can be very detail rich. There, moving benches and flowers in the wind can give an advantage to relatively high speeds and ISO compared to a MF camera. I'd love such a camera that was 16 BIT with a good dynamic range. Also the police and homeland security would love such a camera with telephoto lenses scanning the crowds at every sports stadium for wanted criminals or suspected terrorists. They do that now and use facial recognition to find their catches! with more detail, they can scan more of the crowd per shot as their Gigapan chugs through its sweep of all the fans!

Asher
I think this is a well supported (technically) article... note that the comparison is on resolution only... no DR, or color depth or other aspect of photography, which surely doesn't benefit from smaller pixels... http://nerdycamerablog.blogspot.gr/2012/09/resolution-comparison-nikon-d800-vs.html Note that the result is that "there cannot be more benefit from resolution increase (D800 - 36mp is the limit for FF) on current imaging areas, unless there will be a further improvement in lens resolution from the best of current lenses". The article also concludes that Sinar 75 MFDB (33 mp) has (a little) more resolution than D800....
 

Will Thompson

Well Known Member
I think this is a well supported (technically) article... note that the comparison is on resolution only... no DR, or color depth or other aspect of photography, which surely doesn't benefit from smaller pixels... http://nerdycamerablog.blogspot.gr/2012/09/resolution-comparison-nikon-d800-vs.html Note that the result is that "there cannot be more benefit from resolution increase (D800 - 36mp is the limit for FF) on current imaging areas, unless there will be a further improvement in lens resolution from the best of current lenses". The article also concludes that Sinar 75 MFDB (33 mp) has (a little) more resolution than D800....

And they are wrong!
 
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