• Please use real names.

    Greetings to all who have registered to OPF and those guests taking a look around. Please use real names. Registrations with fictitious names will not be processed. REAL NAMES ONLY will be processed

    Firstname Lastname

    Register

    We are a courteous and supportive community. No need to hide behind an alia. If you have a genuine need for privacy/secrecy then let me know!
  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

Dealing with heat issues in Powerbooks: solutions?

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
We have 11 Macs, so we're very committed to Apple. Still, here I want to touch on a reported problem with heat.

In Macworld.com in February 2006, the MacBook Pro was reviewed. One short paragraph referred to running temp, but with just 1 hr of testing.

http://www.macworld.com/2006/02/reviews/mbpromain/index.php

"• Heat. The MacBook Pro is definitely not a cool system. After an hour of use, we found ours to be quite warm, particularly on the left side toward the back. However, we didn’t find the heat level uncomfortable, and it seemed roughly in line with the heat generated by PowerBook G4 models.

Paul Caldwell today posted on Bootcamp and referred to the heat of the Powerbook Pro:

Paul Caldwell said:
2. HEAT, the MacbookPro does run hotter under XP. This tells me that all the power management hasn't been figured out and or Mac really hasn't looked at it too much. All CoreDuo type chips have a bus (PCI I believe) where the temp of the process can be managed, watched etc. You can also turn down the processor so that you aren't running full out. I feel that when under XP, no matter what power management scheme you have picked, you basically are running full out, even though the processor activity shows you are idle.

I also now believe that when you have the Macbookpro attached to the AC adatper, that the heat under XP is even worse. Last night I did most of my work on battery, and then started to charge the machine and was amazed at how much hotter it got. Basically I had been OK keeping it in my lap, but while on the AC adapter it got uncomfortable.

It's also disconcerting to see the posts that show how some of the thermal paste was applied to the important chips on the Pro's. Way too much and very sloppy. Some folks have opened theirs up and cleaned this up, but I don't want to go there.

While we have no idea of how common this issue is, there certainly are reports that the machines can run hot. Here, the MB Pro was tested longer, for 6 hours.

http://www.powerpage.org/archives/2006/02/macbook_pro_heat_generation.html

"UPDATE: 2006-0228:
After running the MBP for about six hours straight last night the surface temperature at the top of the keyboard (above F2 and F4) was as high as 126 degrees Fahrenheit (as measured by a digital thermometer). The bottom temperature was about 106 degrees at the hottest location (running on a Podium Coolpad, Podium, (http://www.roadtools.com/). It appears that the MBP is no cooler than the PowerBook G4 and may, in fact, run hotter."

Recently things seem to have heated up with some websites pressured by lawyers to cease and desist instructing people how to remove excess gunk from the chips in Powerbooks.

http://www.tuaw.com/2006/05/04/macbook-pro-heat-problem-heats-up/

Sure these complaints cannot be denied. But what is the incidence? The number of units sold is available. However, a huge number of Powerbooks and MB Pros have been sold and we don't know the number of complaints.

So is this a common issue or not? Is it just one batch of problematic machines?

In any case, how much of a problem is this. I, for one have no idea.

So, what is your experience and what are the solutions?

Asher
 
That is an amazing amount of heat sync paste. You are not supposed to use that much. Just a real thin coat. I work in electronics and have some idea how to use that stuff. If you get too much on it will actually insulate the chip from the heat sync. Not very efficient. I would think that in the long run Apple is going to have a number of heat related failures.
 

Don Lashier

New member
Asher Kelman said:
I would like to know who isn't have issues with heat to the function keys or their lap!
Reminescent of jockey shorts - maybe this is Apple's contribution to population control?

- DL
 

Mike Spinak

pro member
My 15" TiBook ran a little bit uncomfortably hot, where I wouldn't want to keep it on my lap for an extended period, without shielding my skin from direct contact from the laptop. My 17" MacBook Pro runs quite noticeably hotter, where (when doing a lot of number crunching... going back and forth between Photoshop and Dreamweaver [with Safari and Firefox open for testing my website on Dreamweaver], while listening to music on iTunes, etc.) it can get so hot that a momentary touch to the bottom of the laptop stings like touching a the metal on a car door on a hot summer day in L.A. I would never use my new MacBook Pro without something shielding my lap from the bottom of the computer... I couldn't.

That said, I have no issues with the heat, when I put something on my lap between the computer and my body. And, based on infrequency with which the fan turns on, and the lower setting the fan usually is running at when it is on, I must guess that the computer is not running hotter than it is designed to.

I guess that it is to be expected that a lot of heat is going to build up when doing so much computation, so fast, in a computer so small.

If it has a heat-related premature failure... that would likely be quite annoying and inconvenient, but at least I do have a three year full warranty, and I keep all my data well backed up.

Mike

www.mikespinak.com
 

Bev Sampson

New member
Though not a Mac, I have the same problem with my Dell Inspiron 8500 laptop. As soon as any program begins to download or a virus scan begins to run or I run Photoshop, the noisy fan kicks in. The keyboard on the left side becomes very hot.

While under warranty, running hot was a problem that I ignored in my ignorance. The result was that everything fried, motherboard, processor, fan, keyboard. I will not discuss my disgust dealing with Dell's support but with persistence I finally got through to Dell level 2 support in TN. They did a phone analysis, ordered replacement parts and sent a technician to my house to replace.

It still runs very hot with activity as Mike describes. I have it raised about 1 inch on the bottom. I purchased a small desktop fan, direct it at the keyboard when the laptop noisy fan starts up. This seems to help since I have not had a burn-up since.

I thought this model Dell was the only problem but from this thread, I am beginning to understand that this is a problem with laptops/notebooks.

Bev
 

Ray West

New member
Its all a rather cunning engineering self regulating design. You make things small, so they can go fast. You put little feet underneath, to give some air flow below the unit, and a fan inside to run when it gets a bit hot. But its a lap-top, so folk want to put it on their lap. Their clothing is soft, so there is no airflow underneath. The fan starts up, sucking in fluff, food crumbs and whatever else may be found in their lap. The fan thus starts getting clogged, the unit gets hotter, until the user decides its too hot to handle, and puts it back on a firm surface, where the air can again flow properly. Now lets cut out all that, make the thing too hot, soon as it fires up.

There are cooling pads available, but put a tray, even a magazine, on your lap, and the pc on that. Its just stuff built down to a price.

Its all a trade off. In electric motors, for example, modern higher grade insulation allows more copper wire in less space. Use less length of wire in same space, so wire runs hotter, if you put the same voltage accross its terminations, but the insulation can take it. Result new, smaller, hence cheaper, and more powerful electric motors, but they run too hot to touch, and the overall efficiency is poor. But, if you take an old motor, get it rewound with modern wire, you can get in far more ampere turns, and the result is a good performance increase for little temperature increase, and higher efficiency.

Best wishes,

Ray
 
Top