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Your thoughts?

Shane Carter

New member
Put these four up for your critique. A few of my youngest again...low light, outside, little bit of reflector fill only, 85mm at 1.2, trying a different look with the super shallow DOF. C&C welcome, always looking to improve.

1.
57490J4O5594.jpg


2.
57490J4O5725.jpg


3.
57490J4O5693.jpg


4.
57490J4O5580.jpg
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Put these four up for your critique. A few of my youngest again...low light, outside, little bit of reflector fill only, 85mm at 1.2, trying a different look with the super shallow DOF. C&C welcome, always looking to improve.

This lens is, besides the Canon 50 1.2 L one of the fines you could choose for protraits. Also these lenses are mase to be used wide open. The way your model moves to different poses, almost like a kitten jumping for drops of milk, creates a delightful sequence of shots but a challenge for that narrow depth of field. One cannot expect to have more than occaisional winner because there as so many variables in the geometry and shaping of featues with such close distances and even more so from above that one can be lucky to have an keepers out of 10 shots. With a seated posed stationary classic setup, these lenses are still challenging but more predicatable.

Still you have achieved some nice shots.

1.
57490J4O5594.jpg


In the frist picture, of course she is charming and her smile captivating. However, this is still tentative, we are not quite there. Some slef conciousness. The light on the nose is too bright and in this case, under exposing or using reflecting the light to sheet to spread it or a diffuser for the sunlight might help. Still, if this was hte only image, it's delightful. Everyone would be happy. (BTW, there's some postrization in the make up on the cheeks and forehead and maybe that's a jpg artifact of else the PS corrections were made in 8 BIT or were drastic., thesec are pretty well absent in the other three pictures, so it's likely to be a processing artifact in PS. I wonder.

2.
57490J4O5725.jpg


This ands the last two images picture has better skin lighting as it's more even. Again the eyes are in perfect focus. The bridge of the nose is too. I'd venture to selectively sharpen the lipds. I'd try blurring the inside rim of the glasses to take away emphasis in them. The eyes are beautiful and the thickness of the lower inside rim appears distracting as we move our eyes to hers.

3.
57490J4O5693.jpg


Playful and a good experiment.

4.
57490J4O5580.jpg
[/QUOTE]

On est arrivé! This is the picture. Here she is presented as her self in her face. The body in lovely blue is softly taken by the bokeh. This is the picture. Congrats!

asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Put these four up for your critique. A few of my youngest again...low light, outside, little bit of reflector fill only, 85mm at 1.2, trying a different look with the super shallow DOF. C&C welcome, always looking to improve.

This lens is, besides the Canon 50 1.2 L one of the fines you could choose for protraits. Also these lenses are mase to be used wide open. The way your model moves to different poses, almost like a kitten jumping for drops of milk, creates a delightful sequence of shots but a challenge for that narrow depth of field. One cannot expect to have more than occaisional winner because there as so many variables in the geometry and shaping of featues with such close distances and even more so from above that one can be lucky to have an keepers out of 10 shots. With a seated posed stationary classic setup, these lenses are still challenging but more predicatable.

Still you have achieved some nice shots.

1.
57490J4O5594.jpg


In the first picture, of course she is charming and her smile captivating. However, this is still tentative, we are not quite there. Some selfconciousness. The light on the nose is a little too bright and in this case, under exposing or reflecting the added light through a diffusing sheet to spread it or a diffuser for the sunlight might help. Still, if this was the only image, it's delightful. Everyone would be happy. (BTW, there's some posterization in the makeup on the cheeks and forehead and maybe that's a jpg artifact (or else the PS corrections were made in 8 BIT or were drastic). Since these artifacts are pretty well absent in the other three pictures, it's likely to be a processing artifact in PS. I wonder? No big deal. jpg can do that in one picture of a bunch because of differences in lighting.

2.
57490J4O5725.jpg


This and the last two images picture have no highlighting issues. Again the eyes are in perfect focus. The bridge of the nose is too. I'd venture to selectively sharpen the lips. I'd try blurring the inside rim of the glasses to take away emphasis in them. The eyes are beautiful and the thickness of the lower inside rim appears distracting as we move our eyes to hers.

3.
57490J4O5693.jpg


Playful and a good experiment.

4.
57490J4O5580.jpg
[/QUOTE]

On est arrivé! This is the picture. I like the bold diagonal, the placement of her face in the strongest position and the secrue balance shown by her right arm. It does more than keep her and her picture in equilibrium. More it speaks to the trying to support herself as an individual person and come to you on some of her terms. Here she is presented as herself represented in her face. The body, in lovely blue, is softly taken by the bokeh. This is the picture. Congrats!

The cropping at first is bold and maybe harsh. However, this is what powerfully places her so that she looks into the frame as into a window. We do not need any of her head or body we cannot see and not seeing htem is better for tHe picture. The picture as is works. Again I might suggest sharpening the lips a tad and in a new image trying to have a wisp of hair that ends up in the plane of focus too. I'd also consider doing a set after her her prepared professionally. You'll treasure htese pictures anyway, but a few which bring out more of her wonderful hair would be another part of this project to expore with her.

Often, I rail against the fashion to crop close when people leave themselves no room for rethinking the creative process during the "darkroom phase" of making the picture. Here however, the framing in the camera appears to have worked. Is this, BTW, how you framed or is it crop? If the latter, that only supports my feeling that unless one is a reincarnation of Ansel Adams, composition is, like making the photograph, part of a continuous process in which trades of territory, shape, sharpness and emphais and shading are made to achieve the final result. so if you cropped in PS, great! That is perfectly as good as doing it when one shoots. Insisting it should be completed and decisive in the stage of light capture is to me at least, to restrictive.

Asher
 

Shane Carter

New member
Wow Asher, what a thoughtful post! Trying to take your points in order…

Yes, this is a great lens. That it is so sharp wide open makes it a delight. And as you say, a challenge as well. Good point that with so little in focus, the rest of the frame becomes all that much more important. Had not thought of it that way but will now!

On the first pic, I do see your point on the pose/smile…not quite there. For the light was shifting and so was she so not a surprise that the nose is a bit too much light, good catch. Maybe a scrim next time…had one but did not set it up. As for the posterization, that must be from the downsample for web because none on the original. Not sure how to deal with that. I’m not super good with Photoshop on post work for skin and need to learn more. Retouching is an area where I have no expertise at all, zip. I can clone out or use the healing brush on a blemish, but have no idea how to “re-touch.” Doing more of this kind of work that is something I need to learn fast…any good books out there that start with PS dummies?

Here is a good example, you mention sharpening the lips only. I have no idea how to so that to just the lips. Something to do with masking, but in must trying it, I could not figure out the mask, blending, etc. So really a hands on class would be best, but don’t see that happening. So a book I guess.

The glasses shot was not one we wanted to use but did try anyway. She has moved to contact lenses as glasses can be a real problem for theatre. You points on this are well taken and agree.

On the playful one, yeah, just a distraction for her. :) It gets a little boring for kids doing this.

Yep, the last one worked well for her. Yes, diagonals seem to help this kind of photo, something about it is pleasing to the eye. You read some into the pose with the arm that I did not see except that I did crop this one to leave the arm and hand to provide some balance. The hair can use some work, we are going to play with that next time too. :)

Most of these are nearly full frame but perhaps better to pull back for cropping. These are all cropped for 8x10 but start out pretty close to full frame.

Thanks again for the great critique!
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Shane,

I like your track with these pictures. This is an inividual style which will carry over to portraits of other people. So the investment os so worth it. Why don't you post the glasses picture on retouching and the lips pictres on entry to digtal photgraphy.

asher
 
As for the posterization, that must be from the downsample for web because none on the original. Not sure how to deal with that.

It's an 'under-exposed' subject in most digital imaging forums. I've started a thread on one specific aspect of the subject at OPF.

I’m not super good with Photoshop on post work for skin and need to learn more. Retouching is an area where I have no expertise at all, zip. I can clone out or use the healing brush on a blemish, but have no idea how to “re-touch.” Doing more of this kind of work that is something I need to learn fast…any good books out there that start with PS dummies?

As for books, Katrin Eismann is a respected author on the subject with her "Photoshop Retouching & Restoration" book, also available through Amazon.com.

A useful website on the subject of retouching in general, is Doug Nelson's RetouchPro website.

Bart
 

Shane Carter

New member
Thanks for the info Bart. I went to that thread and read it...uhhh, I'll leave that discussion to you guys...still working on lighting here. :)

Ordered the book and signing up for the website, thanks!
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Bonsoir Shane
Though I do agree with most but not all Asher's comment, I like much the 1st one, maybe it looks less academic to me than the last one.

In regards to post process, I do fully agree with Asher, I hope you won't mind me posting a PP trial (as always it is too much, but you'll see the possibilities…)

I did:
- Heal the upper face to light area of nose
- Sharpened the whole thing (with my sharpening action, doing some tone mapping in the same time)
- Sharpened again the lips area
- whiten the teeth
- withen the spark in the eyes

Took less than 5 minutes…

Before
57490J4O5594_NC.jpg

After
 

Ray West

New member
Hi Nicolas,

I know you said you had probably overdone it, and Shane said it was nice work, but I think it is interesting, (maybe my twisted view) but the sharpening in the mouth area has sort of altered the shape of the face. I think it works along the lines that in the original, the blurred lower area indicates the distance, the tilt of the face. By sharpening, you bring that area forward, and it sort of distorts the shape of the face.

Best wishes,

Ray
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Effectivly Ray,
one may like the effect or not… I did indicate in the sharpness thread that this sharpnesse action does bring some 3D effects…
The over sharpening on the mouth was to show Asher's intend…

On my own I do prefer the depth brung to the eyes and her sight…

I wish I'm 17 again ;-)
 

Shane Carter

New member
OK, here is a question...why would one want to sharpen an area of a photo that is out of the DOF? Is that not defeating the effect of the shallow DOF, which was used on purpose to create the is effect of focusing on the eyes...what say ye?
 

Ray West

New member
Hi Shane,

I think if you are referring specifically to this photo, Nicolas's version, he will probably answer himself, but it was to show the effect of the action - he said he had deliberately overdone it, or words to that effect.

In the general case, I think the only reason may be to bring a bit more attention to an area. oof blur will more or less treat everything the same, based on distance. So, maybe you want the top of the head sharp, but not the neck. So, in the same way that in pp you can selectively blur, you can selectively sharpen. Now, it may be you get what you want straight from camera, but usually things can be improved by a some pp.

I like what Nicholas has done, but he had a very nice starting point, but as he indicated, it needs to be selective. I think I would have left everything below the nose as it was wrt sharpness. (If I was leaning over your shoulder, my first words would be - 'slow down, that's too much')

Best wishes,

Ray
 

Marcus Peddle

New member
Although I do not have the skills to reply as thoroughly as others have, I would like to say that I liked all of these photographs, especially the playful one and the last one. I think I can see the girl's personality really come out in the third picture; it looks natural for a girl of her age. Great work!
 
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