Open Photography Forums  
HOME FORUMS NEWS FAQ SEARCH

Go Back   Open Photography Forums > Digital Camera Discussion > Canon Eos Mount DSLRs

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 9th, 2010, 07:52 AM
Ralph Honsbeek Ralph Honsbeek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 64
Default pocket wizards not firing in LiveView on 5d Mk2

Hi there ,

I was just wondering if anyone could share some light on my recent problem.

When setting up a macro box environment , I have my 5d mk2 in live view and pocket wizards setup and wired to a Speedlite 430 EX ... Although the connection is there and while in live view mode I take a picture but the flashes fail to fire completely. I try the same setup with my 1d Mk3 and never a problem , they fire , any reason why this could happen

thank you

Ralph
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old July 9th, 2010, 08:39 AM
John Angulat John Angulat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,272
Default

Hi Ralph,
Antennas lined up properly?
How close are the 2 wizards?
Although the manual states you must keep a 12" minimum distance, I've seen complaints up to 2 feet.
__________________
Warm regards,
John Angulat
www.lightsimage.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 9th, 2010, 11:47 AM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Atlanta, Georgia USA
Posts: 1,407
Default

What do you mean by "the flashes fail to fire completely?" Do you mean the flashes fire, but not "completely," or that they completely fail to fire? If the former, are you sure this is not a sync issue? I vaguely recall seeing something about sync in live view with remote flashes...

Nill
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old July 9th, 2010, 04:32 PM
Ralph Honsbeek Ralph Honsbeek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 64
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nill Toulme View Post
What do you mean by "the flashes fail to fire completely?" Do you mean the flashes fire, but not "completely," or that they completely fail to fire? If the former, are you sure this is not a sync issue? I vaguely recall seeing something about sync in live view with remote flashes...

Nill
forget completely, they fire when setup on the 1d and don't when on the 5dmk2 same distances
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 9th, 2010, 05:16 PM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
pro member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,054
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Honsbeek View Post
forget completely, they fire when setup on the 1d and don't when on the 5dmk2 same distances
Hi Ralph,

Which PW model are you using ?

You probably checked if the 5D2 will trigger the transmitter, and that there are no custom functions that prevent the transmitter to function? I don't know the 5D2 Custom functions as well as the ones on my camera, but check the ones (if any) that involve limiting shutterspeeds or apertures or ISO. Obviously anything that changes the regular flash functionality would be suspect.

Cheers,
Bart
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 9th, 2010, 05:39 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico, USA
Posts: 8,531
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Honsbeek View Post
forget completely, they fire when setup on the 1d and don't when on the 5dmk2 same distances
Does a flash fire in the shoe of the 5D2?

Is there a manual fire button on the transmitter? Does it make the linked flash fire?

Is it the same transmitter that works on the 1D but not on the 5D2?

If there are two transmitters, does one work on the 5D2 but not the other?

(You probably said all that, but I didn't read the whole thread.)

Best regards,

Doug
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 9th, 2010, 07:48 PM
Charles L Webster Charles L Webster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Silicon Valley CA
Posts: 596
Default

Turn off "silent shooting" it inhibits the external flash sync.
__________________
<Chas>

Everything in the frame must contribute to the picture.
http://www.charlesLwebster.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 10th, 2010, 05:37 AM
Ralph Honsbeek Ralph Honsbeek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 64
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles L Webster View Post
Turn off "silent shooting" it inhibits the external flash sync.
Thank you for jump starting my brain ^^
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old July 10th, 2010, 08:52 AM
Charles L Webster Charles L Webster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Silicon Valley CA
Posts: 596
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Honsbeek View Post
Thank you for jump starting my brain ^^
Someone had to tell me about it too
__________________
<Chas>

Everything in the frame must contribute to the picture.
http://www.charlesLwebster.com
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old July 10th, 2010, 09:03 AM
Ralph Honsbeek Ralph Honsbeek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 64
Default

My "photography life" would not be so worriless without the "Open Photography Forum"

Thanks a lot for all the help you guys ,,,

-Ralph-
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old July 10th, 2010, 09:57 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
pro member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,054
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles L Webster View Post
Turn off "silent shooting" it inhibits the external flash sync.
Hi Chas,

That was apparently a good guess. Now why would Canon want to link such behavior to silent mode? I have no idea what the benefit or even the underlying reason might be.

Cheers,
Bart
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old July 10th, 2010, 10:00 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico, USA
Posts: 8,531
Default

Hi, Bart,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf View Post
Hi Chas,

That was apparently a good guess. Now why would Canon want to link such behavior to silent mode? I have no idea what the benefit or even the underlying reason might be.
Well, it may be that the use of the "electronic virtual front curtain" involved in silent shooting, combined with the physical second curtain, gives a situation that is not flash-friendly. I'll have to give that some thought.

Best regards,

Doug
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old July 10th, 2010, 10:13 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico, USA
Posts: 8,531
Default

The Canon White Paper for the EOS 50D and 5D2 says:

Quote:
E-TTL Flash photography is possible in normal Live View mode, but not when the Silent shutter mode is activated.
Interestingly enough, the White Paper for the 40D seems to indicate that flash operation with silent shooting is practical:

Quote:
When using an EX-series Speedlite, the shooting sequence will be the same as the EOS-1D Mark III's Live View Function in either silent shooting Mode 1 or 2. In other words, after pressing the shutter button all the way down to initiate an exposure, the reflex mirror will drop down briefly in order to register the E-TTL II preflash data, then the mirror will be moved out of the optical path during the actual exposure.
The acquisition of the preflash data is obviously a consideration here. Perhaps the arrangement described for the 40D (and 1D3) just didn't work out and Canon had to "move on". In any case, the needed mirror drop doesn't really fit the "silent" paradigm.

Best regards,

Doug
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old July 10th, 2010, 10:38 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
pro member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,054
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
The acquisition of the preflash data is obviously a consideration here. Perhaps the arrangement described for the 40D (and 1D3) just didn't work out and Canon had to "move on". In any case, the needed mirror drop doesn't really fit the "silent" paradigm.
Hi Doug,

The strange thing is that, assuming an older type, the PocketWizard is triggered with X-sync through the external connection, so E-TTL is not a part of the decision.

The latest PW models do support E-TTL II because they trigger via the hot-shoe and communicate the settings via Radio Frequency.

Cheers,
Bart
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old July 10th, 2010, 10:46 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 34,582
Default

Ralph,

For the record, what PW model are you using and how is it linked to the 5DII?

Asher
__________________
Follow us on Twitter at @opfweb

Our purpose is getting to an impressive photograph. So we encourage browsing and then feedback. Consider a link to your galleries annotated, C&C welcomed. Images posted within OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old July 10th, 2010, 11:21 AM
Charles L Webster Charles L Webster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Silicon Valley CA
Posts: 596
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf View Post
Hi Chas,

That was apparently a good guess. Now why would Canon want to link such behavior to silent mode? I have no idea what the benefit or even the underlying reason might be.

Cheers,
Bart
Wasn't much of a guess, I had the same issue when I first got my 50D 1-1/2 years ago.

My assumption about the reason agrees with Doug's, that the external flash is triggered by the physical shutter curtain, and therefore isn't compatible with Silent Shooting mode.

I don't try to second guess why manufacturers do what they do. I have been involved in hardware and software design for many years and understand the compromises that must be made at each stage of the process. I simply accept the limitations as what they are, and work around them.

On a positive note, I find tethered live view shooting in the studio the best thing that has happened to my photography since I went digital. The ability to see the shot on the computer screen in advance, and to drive the camera focus controls while zoomed into the live view image gives me a degree of control I haven't had since using a loupe on the ground glass of a view camera.
__________________
<Chas>

Everything in the frame must contribute to the picture.
http://www.charlesLwebster.com
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old July 10th, 2010, 11:47 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 34,582
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles L Webster View Post

On a positive note, I find tethered live view shooting in the studio the best thing that has happened to my photography since I went digital. The ability to see the shot on the computer screen in advance, and to drive the camera focus controls while zoomed into the live view image gives me a degree of control I haven't had since using a loupe on the ground glass of a view camera.
Charles,

This is a fascinating sub-topic for which a new thread is started here.

Thanks!

Asher
__________________
Follow us on Twitter at @opfweb

Our purpose is getting to an impressive photograph. So we encourage browsing and then feedback. Consider a link to your galleries annotated, C&C welcomed. Images posted within OPF are assumed to be for Comment & Critique, unless otherwise designated.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old July 11th, 2010, 12:11 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico, USA
Posts: 8,531
Default

Just to finish the original issue with a little more detail -

The manuals for the EOS 40D, 50D, and 5D say (I have "improved" the language for clarity):

With a [Canon or apparent Canon] flash in effect [onboard or external], in Live View, silent shooting is disabled regardless of the menu setting.

With a "foreign" flash in effect, in Live View, with either silent shooting mode 1 or 2 in effect, the flash will not fire.

Again, one reason for this is presumably that ETTL flash metering requires the main mirror to flap, thus destroying the "silence".

Best regards,

Doug
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old July 12th, 2010, 04:13 AM
Ralph Honsbeek Ralph Honsbeek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 64
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf View Post
Hi Chas,

That was apparently a good guess. Now why would Canon want to link such behavior to silent mode? I have no idea what the benefit or even the underlying reason might be.

Cheers,
Bart
I guess in the mind of a Canon Camera developer , they would not want to put in the extra wiring and/ or controllers for such problems to not exist. It sounds like a genuine bug , but none so severe that any concerns would be raised in Canon Developers Section. I guess their answer would be , "Don't use the Silent Mode then " ^^

Thanks Again

Ralph
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pocket Wizards jacob smith Studio, Portrait, Still Life, Lighting Equipment and Technique 4 July 2nd, 2007 03:47 PM
Pocket wizards etc Jeff O'Neil Studio, Portrait, Still Life, Lighting Equipment and Technique 12 November 15th, 2006 04:41 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:45 AM.


Posting images or text grants license to OPF, yet of such remain with its creator. Still, all assembled discussion 2006-2017 Asher Kelman (all rights reserved) Posts with new theme or unusual image might be moved/copied to a new thread!