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Art Theory: Idea workshop. Warning, not the truth here, just a venture. Examining what makes an image worthy of saving and what it does for us.

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  #1  
Old November 29th, 2017, 08:45 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Default For what purposes can the classic camera survive the smart phone?

Given that smart phones have evolved to have multiple cameras with high pixel counts and cutting edge processing, in what niches will classic camera forms survive.

At present, manufacturing inspection, outside of computer vision, steel fab plants engineering shops, real estate development progress shots for management review are done with smart phones.

So what niches will keep the camera with real telephoto and the like from going extinct.

Asher
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  #2  
Old November 29th, 2017, 11:47 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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That is a bit of a strange question if you limit it to "the camera with real telephoto and the like". Smartphones, for most of their users, serve a single use: vernacular photography. Basically: pictures of themselves (mostly) and their friends to show around. Other cameras are better for anything else, but that anything else is probably less than 1% of the total of photographs taken.

People simply want a picture of themselves to show to their friends (and enemies, if they would look). It has always been so. Smartphones simply replaced disposable cameras and then small digital P&S.

This 1% of pictures is what photography sites present. But don't let that fool you: it is, in volume of pictures taken, a small minority.
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  #3  
Old November 29th, 2017, 01:39 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
That is a bit of a strange question if you limit it to "the camera with real telephoto and the like". Smartphones, for most of their users, serve a single use: vernacular photography. Basically: pictures of themselves (mostly) and their friends to show around. Other cameras are better for anything else, but that anything else is probably less than 1% of the total of photographs taken.

Jerome,

Every workman assigned to fix a roof, paint a car, remachine a part in a workshop, check out a new real estate property to purchase uses a cell phone to document their progress. It is, at least in the USA the normal way of assessing how well a job is carried out and what adjustments need to be made. What's even more important, the picture or video is transmitted immediately.

Perhaps habits are different in Europe and business uses digicams, but here, all workmen carry cell phones and are taking pictures to communicate how they are doing.

I imagine this is true in theater and music performance too. The cell phone has become a necessary part of the workplace, even replacing photocopying as its faster and gets to the stakeholders immediately.

No need to change lenses, there's more than enough resolution.

But perhaps the cell phone actually created, (or at least expanded), this use of pictures in the workplace and has not displaced the digicam or larger camera.

I have seen the claim that most pictures today are taken with smart phones but I do not know the truth if it!

Asher
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  #4  
Old November 29th, 2017, 03:00 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Every workman assigned to fix a roof, paint a car, remachine a part in a workshop, check out a new real estate property to purchase uses a cell phone to document their progress. It is, at least in the USA the normal way of assessing how well a job is carried out and what adjustments need to be made. What's even more important, the picture or video is transmitted immediately.

Perhaps habits are different in Europe and business uses digicams, but here, all workmen carry cell phones and are taking pictures to communicate how they are doing.
I have no idea how this is done in Europe, but I imagine it is the same. It simply is the most convenient solution to the stated problem.

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Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
But perhaps the cell phone actually created, (or at least expanded), this use of pictures in the workplace and has not displaced the digicam or larger camera.
I would think so. In my time, workmen took no pictures.

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I have seen the claim that most pictures today are taken with smart phones but I do not know the truth if it!
Check this: https://www.flickr.com/cameras/
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  #5  
Old November 29th, 2017, 07:31 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Jerome,

That reference isn't clear to me. First it seems to have iPhones being most common, then in another table it cites "models" instead of gross counts.

From this table it seems that Samsung has more "models", but do they mean the counts of users. V. Unclear!

Asher
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  #6  
Old November 29th, 2017, 07:57 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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The professional camera, shooting models at 10 frames a second as she moves in the Profoto lit light field, with the strobes keeping pace with the frame rate, is pretty safe from competition from a smartphone. Same with a heavy tripod setup and pixel shifting with Sony phase One, A7RIII, Pentax or Olympus with pixel shift in making heirloom documentation of precious paintings in a museum or for forensic research will better a smart phone for at least the next 5 years.

Similarly, single super wide angle or longer shots of detail rich landscapes will be better with such professional cameras.

Probably, cameras have improved so much that the APS-C camera is now "today's full frame" tool for almost all pro wedding shoots and a camera like the A7RIII becomes the de facto small MF camera, except it has more lenses!

There is really no need for most folk to use anything more than a pro-grade Olympus or Panasonic 4/3 camera.

If I was doing weddings I'd use 2-3 of those, (4/3 or APS -C) and one A7RIII/5Ds/Nikon 7800), for the bride shots to be blown up. But actually, nothing more than a Sony or Canon Digicam could suffice for nearly all the wedding shots.

Only problem is that it doesn't look professional enough!

The forensic version of the Canon line have files that can't be altered surreptitiously, are king at the moment, but a forensic iPhone is possible too!

What else? Video camera will encroach on still camera territory as AI is introduced and still can be extracted from the video.

This is a very dynamic time and the smart phones have 10 million folk to spread the cost of the newest advances for each iteration, so they can advance relentlously.

Only the smartest high end companies who can leverage these advances will be left in the market.

Thank goodness there is a lot of cross licensing. A company like Sony can plough back know-how from cutting edge smart phone sensors to offer classic DSLR or mirrorless camera MFRs these advances in their larger Sony chips!

Asher
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  #7  
Old November 30th, 2017, 11:49 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Probably, cameras have improved so much that the APS-C camera is now "today's full frame" tool for almost all pro wedding shoots and a camera like the A7RIII becomes the de facto small MF camera, except it has more lenses!
It really depends on what you are after.

For certain types of images, our eyes have been educated since the 60s to the particular optical defects arising from the use of fast, typically f/1.4, lenses on a 24x36 sensor. To recreate the same feel one simply uses a vintage fast lens on a 24x36 digital camera, an APS-C will not really do.
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  #8  
Old November 30th, 2017, 07:10 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
It really depends on what you are after.

For certain types of images, our eyes have been educated since the 60s to the particular optical defects arising from the use of fast, typically f/1.4, lenses on a 24x36 sensor. To recreate the same feel one simply uses a vintage fast lens on a 24x36 digital camera, an APS-C will not really do.
That's true and then how does one reproduce the look of a Petzval on and 8x10 or larger.

Everyone has their own favorites.

But for modern work, one can earn a living with a 4/3 sensor!

Asher
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  #9  
Old December 1st, 2017, 03:07 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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One can earn a living with plenty of things, although, frankly, wedding photography had better days.

The question is always: what do you want, as a photographer? A camera is a tool. If your job involves posting selfies on Facebook, probably a cellphone is a better tool. If your job involves a customer that will be impressed by gear, probably less so. If your job involves reproducing thousands of objects for catalogues (which I believe is the bread and butter of most real "pros"), a MF camera maybe a better tool because of tethered shooting. If your job involves aerial photography, a 100 megapixel camera will cut flight time. If your job involves doing unique portraits for art exhibitions, a sheet of Cibachrome at the back of a camera obscura may be an adequate choice.

All this is photography, a broader field than most people realise.
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  #10  
Old December 1st, 2017, 07:23 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
One can earn a living with plenty of things, although, frankly, wedding photography had better days.

The question is always: what do you want, as a photographer? A camera is a tool. If your job involves posting selfies on Facebook, probably a cellphone is a better tool. If your job involves a customer that will be impressed by gear, probably less so. If your job involves reproducing thousands of objects for catalogues (which I believe is the bread and butter of most real "pros"), a MF camera maybe a better tool because of tethered shooting. If your job involves aerial photography, a 100 megapixel camera will cut flight time. If your job involves doing unique portraits for art exhibitions, a sheet of Cibachrome at the back of a camera obscura may be an adequate choice.

All this is photography, a broader field than most people realise.
Jerome,

Why do you leave out "full frame" 35mm cameras from "tethered shooting". Are there special limitations today for 30-50 MP cameras to be used tethered for product work?

.....and of all, that sheet of Cibachrome may be the hardest to obtain

Asher
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  #11  
Old December 2nd, 2017, 12:05 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Why do you leave out "full frame" 35mm cameras from "tethered shooting". Are there special limitations today for 30-50 MP cameras to be used tethered for product work?
The pros I know who use tethered shooting in a studio all use MF cameras, but maybe for historical reasons as MF manufacturers were the first to offer these solutions over 10 years ago. Maybe a workable solution is available for 35mm cameras today, I am not sure.
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