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New Pro-Class Compact GR Ricoh Experience(s) A forum where pro and amateurs can share and discuss their experience(s) with the Ricoh GR

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  #1  
Old January 25th, 2014, 06:50 AM
Paul Abbott Paul Abbott is offline
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Default RICOH GR firmware update 3.00

Amongst other things the Added 'Ambient Brightness' mode is interesting, it is supposed to take pictures with the ambient light qualities comparable to the old GR film cameras, hmmm. There is a new effect added called 'Slight' too...

Here: http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/engli...ital/gr_s.html
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  #2  
Old January 25th, 2014, 10:19 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Abbott View Post
Amongst other things the Added 'Ambient Brightness' mode is interesting, it is supposed to take pictures with the ambient light qualities comparable to the old GR film cameras, hmmm. There is a new effect added called 'Slight' too...

Here: http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/engli...ital/gr_s.html
Paul!

I eagerly looked at the update buy, perhaps because of my lack of understanding, I was under-impressed! If you use it, let us know what you think!

Asher
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  #3  
Old January 27th, 2014, 07:42 AM
Paul Abbott Paul Abbott is offline
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Asher, you should update your camera with v3.00 firmware because the 'Ambient Brightness' setting has an effect in solving and correcting the 'circle' artifacts that were apparent in certain situations, and in image processing...
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Old January 27th, 2014, 11:03 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is online now
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Originally Posted by Paul Abbott View Post
Asher, you should update your camera with v3.00 firmware because the 'Ambient Brightness' setting has an effect in solving and correcting the 'circle' artifacts that were apparent in certain situations, and in image processing...
Paul,

I've never noticed any circle artifacts, LOL! Likely, as not, they're there but they never tapped me on the nose as said "look here"! I'll google the issue so I know what these critters look like!

Asher
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  #5  
Old January 28th, 2014, 01:36 AM
Paul Abbott Paul Abbott is offline
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Well, i'm like you I had never noticed them and i've never looked for them either...but it gives me piece of mind now to know that I won't get the chance to ever notice them with this firmware update in place.
Anyway, they may occur through processing, making an underexposed image brighter by 3 stops or more that's when you see the concentric rings.
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  #6  
Old January 28th, 2014, 02:38 AM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Abbott View Post
Asher, you should update your camera with v3.00 firmware because the 'Ambient Brightness' setting has an effect in solving and correcting the 'circle' artifacts that were apparent in certain situations, and in image processing...
This is a good news !
If you push too much to recover an underxposure, you'll get those circles... I hope this update will act on raw files !
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  #7  
Old January 28th, 2014, 03:59 AM
Paul Abbott Paul Abbott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
This is a good news !
If you push too much to recover an underxposure, you'll get those circles... I hope this update will act on raw files !
Yep, the RAW files are corrected, Nicolas...
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Old January 28th, 2014, 05:41 AM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Thanks Paul, great news ! thanks for sharing…
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  #9  
Old May 17th, 2014, 07:44 AM
Stefan Karos Stefan Karos is offline
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i dont understand the new maximum aperture priority mode in the update. From the diagram in the pdf

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/engli.../gr_vup_en.pdf

it looks like it is just going to keep f 2.8 out to 1/500 instead of closing down the aperture appropriately. doesn't this mean it will blow the highlights?
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  #10  
Old May 17th, 2014, 10:50 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is online now
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Hi, Stefan,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Karos View Post
i dont understand the new maximum aperture priority mode in the update. From the diagram in the pdf

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/engli.../gr_vup_en.pdf

it looks like it is just going to keep f 2.8 out to 1/500 instead of closing down the aperture appropriately. doesn't this mean it will blow the highlights?
It's been about ten years since I considered exactly how programmed exposure curves work, and I don't know all the conventions on these. But let me try and help you to understand the chart, and in the process perhaps figure out the significance of the "maximum aperture" mode.

Basically the horizontal scale is of exposure time (shutter speed) and the vertical scale is of aperture (f-number).

The "input to the calculations" is the measured light value (scene luminance). That scale runs diagonally up and to the right. Various values along it are given by the diagonal lines (labeled at their leftmost ends).
This scale is labeled Lv when I would expect it to be Bv, so there is come curiosity there, but I will not deal with that right here. It should not screw up the principle I want to describe.
I believe that the heavy line is the "programmed exposure mode program line".

To understand how the chart works, let's work on the lower figure ("maximum aperture priority mode").

Imagine first that the measured scene luminance is LV1. If we look at that diagonal line and follow it to where it intersects the the heavy ("program") line, and then read the horizontal and vertical coordinates of that point,, we see that this would lead to a shutter speed of 4 sec and an aperture of f/2.8.

Next imagine that the scene luminance is much greater, say LV11 (10 stops higher). Follow the diagonal LV11 line until it intersects the program line. We see that for that scene luminance, the system would set a shutter speed of 1/250 sec and again an aperture of f/2.8 (a photographic exposure of 10 stops less).

Next imagine that the measured scene luminance is greater yet, say LV14 (3 stops higher yet). The same procedure will show us that the system would set a shutter speed of 1/1000 and an aperture of f/4 (a photographic exposure of 3 stops less yet).

Now consider a measured luminance of LV18 (5 stops higher yet). The same procedure will show us that for this, the system would set a shutter speed of 1/4000 and an aperture of f/8 (a photographic exposure of 5 stops less yet).

So we see that there is no "overexposure" over this 17-stop (131,000:1) range of scene luminance. The photographic expsure tracks exactly with scene luminance.

Comparing the two program lines, I note that in the "normal" programmed mode, when the scene luminance reaches LV 10, for the next some while, the decreases in exposure for further increases in luminance are done both through decreasing the exposure time and decreasing the aperture.

Then, at a luminance of LV 14, for a while the decrease in exposure is done only through change in exposure time, holding the aperture at f/5.6.

Then, for the next two steps in luminance, again the deceases in exposure are done both through exposure time and aperture.

Now lets look at the lower curve, for the "maximum aperture priority mode".

We see here that as the scene luminance increases, the aperture is kept at is maximum (f/2.8) [aha - that's the name of the song] and exposure changes are made only through decrease in exposure time for quite a while (up to where the exposure time is 1/500 sec).

So basically, the "maximum aperture priority" mode keeps the aperture at its maximum available value up to a higher scene luminance (by 2 stops), doing all exposure decreases by exposure time alone, than in the case of the normal mode.

I don't yet know what the dashed line is (likely, the boundary on what exposure combinations can happen), or the line full of little circles.

Hope this has helped some.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #11  
Old May 17th, 2014, 01:22 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is online now
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The Ricoh program line charts show the measured scene luminance labeled as "Lv" (clearly a logarithmic expression of the luminance).

This is not a legitimate APEX value (logarithmic expression) for scene luminance.

Rather this follows the repulsive convention of "designating" luminance in "Ev" (properly a measure of photographic exposure; that is of the effect of a combination of shutter speed and aperture). It works by stating the Ev that the standard exposure equation, for a sensitivity of ISO 100, would recommend as the photographic exposure for a scene with that luminance.

Ugh.

I continue to chastise manufacturers for the use of this repulsive and misleading convention.

In recent years, some manufactures (including Ricoh, apparently) have begun to use this very same convention but to label the value "Lv" (Light Value) (not a recognized APEX quantity), rather than "Ev", so their documents will not be "wrong". Just repulsive.

Double ugh!

Of course there is a perfectly good APEX quantity for luminance, Bv (Brightness Value). It turns out that:
Lv = Bv + 5
The red warns us that this is not an officially recognized APEX quantity.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #12  
Old May 17th, 2014, 04:36 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is online now
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Interestingly enough, in the basic GR manual, the P mode program line is different from that of the top image in the supplement.

That is, in the new software, the Normal P mode) is different from the old P mode, and the Maximum Aperture Priority P mode (different again) is added.
The original manual is available here:

http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/support/ma...f/gr/gr_en.pdf

The program line chart is on page 43.

In the original program line (again ISO 100), the f/2.8 aperture is held only until the luminance reaches Lv3, then the aperture is f/4.0 until Lv14, and then it proceeds as for the new maximum aperture priority mode.

So with the new firmware, the "normal" mode is a change of the overall strategy in "one direction" from the original, while the new "maximum aperture priority" mode is a change in the "other direction".

Interesting.

I think the line with the small circles is meant to show the modification of the program line through "program shift". That change probably moves the part of the program line that special line crosses (so it passes through different ones of the little circles).

That of course means that for any given Lv, the balance between shutter speed and aperture changes (while holding the same Ev - that is, the same photographic exposure).

I think the dashed line indicates the extremes of shutter speed and aperture combinations that can ever be put into effect.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #13  
Old May 17th, 2014, 09:47 PM
Stefan Karos Stefan Karos is offline
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thank you. my confusion arose in forgetting that i had to follow the Lv line to ensure i was looking at the same luminance. now i am trying to decipher the 'shutter confirmation' setting. The firmware update page says:
When set to [On], pressing the shutter release button halfway can save the settings in ADJ. mode or in exposure compensation.

save which settings?
what is adj. mode?
exposure compensation is set by the little toggle switch on the right top edge of the camera, what ARE they saying??
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  #14  
Old May 18th, 2014, 07:45 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is online now
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Hi, Stefan,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Karos View Post
thank you. my confusion arose in forgetting that i had to follow the Lv line to ensure i was looking at the same luminance.
Yes, I thought perhaps so. It is tricky to get into the right state of mind to look at those charts!

Best regards,

Doug
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  #15  
Old May 21st, 2014, 05:59 PM
Stefan Karos Stefan Karos is offline
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now i am trying to decipher the 'shutter confirmation' setting. The firmware update page says:
When set to [On], pressing the shutter release button halfway can save the settings in ADJ. mode or in exposure compensation.

save which settings?
what is adj. mode?
exposure compensation is set by the little toggle switch on the right top edge of the camera, what ARE they saying??
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