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Photography as Art Original boundary-testing images. Open to comments without moderation. For works intended for clients and galleries submit to GALLERY ONE.

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  #1  
Old July 5th, 2017, 02:36 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Default In the footsteps of the Amazons and of Wonder Woman?

I want to introduce this picture as a representative of a genre of which, PERHAPS Wonder Woman could be described as an archetype. The beautiful strong warrior women who not only can take care of herself, but also can be both a heroine and alluring to the nth.


I will tell you more shortly! But my first impression is that we stepped back in time!

Asher
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Last edited by Asher Kelman; July 5th, 2017 at 07:25 PM.
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  #2  
Old July 5th, 2017, 03:05 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
I want to introduce this picture as a representative of a genre of which, PERHAPS Wonder Woman could be described as an archetype. The beautiful strong warrior women who not only can take care of herself, but also can be both a heroine and alluring to the nth.
I'm not seeing the pic, and taking the URL to another browser instance just takes me to some sort of index page.

But so it shouldn't be a total loss, this was on that page:


Best regards,

Doug
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  #3  
Old July 5th, 2017, 07:03 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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This work comes at the hand of Alexandr Furdui, located in Ukraine. I find his work well crafted.






Some of his pictures would be classed as NSFW, so be warned. There's nothing in my opinion in bad taste. But there's a lot of nudity that might surprise some folk if the don't expect it. but what I admire is the ability to create fantasy female figures that despite being a tad erotic, are still heroic. I do not think that the selection shown in his kickstarted page is in any way, suitable for inspiring young women, but I believe he has the skill and sensibility to do so.

Whenever, women are shown bare chested, we do have the issue of beauty plus eroticism which can be viewed as still being objectifying women. However, I look at this work as being on the whole positive, although not yet developed in a way for general audiences.

Look further here. It is well worth the exploration in terms of the skill used in some of the pictures in staging women as fantastic warriors.

The next stage, I would hope, would bring the work to be as fanciful, but such that they could be heroic role models for young women and not just to be enjoyed for the wonderful figures the women show.

You might want to support this creative project. I do hope that some broader sensibility will develop in this group of models and photo-artist.

It's not easy for anyone in war-torn Ukraine. So I wish this enterprising group good fortune and esthetic and spiritual growth!

Asher
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  #4  
Old July 6th, 2017, 05:49 AM
charlotte thompson charlotte thompson is offline
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Love it!! Welcome the new ideas on art.

Charlotte-
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  #5  
Old July 6th, 2017, 06:26 PM
James Lemon James Lemon is offline
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Great stuff looking forward to seeing more!

James
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Old July 6th, 2017, 11:47 PM
Wolfgang Plattner Wolfgang Plattner is offline
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Hi,

due to Wonderwoman:
... who cares? :-)))
(found this at Nancy, France at a busstop)




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  #7  
Old July 7th, 2017, 12:02 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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I love Wonder Woman

Asher
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  #8  
Old July 7th, 2017, 10:43 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlotte thompson View Post
Welcome the new ideas on art.
But then, pictures of scantily clad young women, with or without fantasy warrior apparel (but mostly "without"...) can hardly be considered a "new idea on art".

At which point, I would like to cite the Hawkeye iniative, as site devoted to redrawing "fantasy art" by replacing female protagonists by male ones. A sample:

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Old July 7th, 2017, 11:01 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
But then, pictures of scantily clad young women, with or without fantasy warrior apparel (but mostly "without"...) can hardly be considered a "new idea on art".

At which point, I would like to cite the Hawkeye iniative, as site devoted to redrawing "fantasy art" by replacing female protagonists by male ones. A sample:

Jerome,

I have a lot of comic culture to catch up on. So do you have any idea about the nature of the make up of the audience for these two examples you share?

Asher
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  #10  
Old July 8th, 2017, 06:26 AM
James Lemon James Lemon is offline
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I am not crazy about the theme but the women are gorgeous I really enjoyed the natural images of the ladies. I know a few models that are in involved in a similar type of business model where they do boudoir shoots. They make extra coin doing this type of thing and also enjoy it. They offer different packages with a full studio and makeup artists in a professional environment. Most of the women I know are excellent at what they do,some are professional dancers, fitness instructors etcetera.Some are capable of posing for long periods of time as well,for nude drawing or sculpture work.

James
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  #11  
Old July 8th, 2017, 08:00 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
So do you have any idea about the nature of the make up of the audience for these two examples you share?
I would think that a large part of the audience is composed of women slightly upset about poses difficult to explain by standard human anatomy and "battle gear" which nobody in their right mind would consider wearing in an actual combat.

I'll give an example. In most "fantasy" depiction of female warriors, when the female wears a cuirass, it separate the breasts. Nobody would do that, as it means that the wearer has a sharp metal object pointing right at the middle of her torso (the cuirass in reverse). Real female cuirasses did not separate the breast, here is a depiction (a copy of the body armour of Joan or Arc):



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Old July 8th, 2017, 09:35 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Jerome,

Most body armor breast plates or cuirass designs we see are exaggerated derivatives of parade decorative armor, used to glorify the wearer as heroic. The female versions are so far removed, leaving most of the body unprotected!

So yes, you are fully justified in pointing out the nonsense of current modern "artistic" depictions of scant armor for heroines. But these can also be considered as symbolic, so they are designed to provide flourish, rather than protection!

Asher
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  #13  
Old July 8th, 2017, 09:55 AM
Wolfgang Plattner Wolfgang Plattner is offline
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Hi

just an addition:
Who made these plates in the medivial? Those craftsmen were named "Plattner" in the german talking region of the world ... :-))
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  #14  
Old July 8th, 2017, 11:39 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Jerome,

Most body armor breast plates or cuirass designs we see are exaggerated derivatives of parade decorative armor, used to glorify the wearer as heroic. The female versions are so far removed, leaving most of the body unprotected!

So yes, you are fully justified in pointing out the nonsense of current modern "artistic" depictions of scant armor for heroines. But these can also be considered as symbolic, so they are designed to provide flourish, rather than protection!
"Glorify the wearer as heroic"? "Provide flourish"? Are you really, really sure you are not omitting an essential element? One which concerns the intended viewer of these "fantasy warrior images".

Let me give you a hint. This is how a woman who actually uses her body to fight looks like (Adeline Gray, three-time world champion wrestler from United States):





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Old July 8th, 2017, 11:48 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang Plattner View Post
Hi
just an addition:
Who made these plates in the medivial? Those craftsmen were named "Plattner" in the german talking region of the world ... :-))
Can you still work iron plates?
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  #16  
Old July 8th, 2017, 01:26 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
"Glorify the wearer as heroic"? "Provide flourish"? Are you really, really sure you are not omitting an essential element? One which concerns the intended viewer of these "fantasy warrior images".

Let me give you a hint. This is how a woman who actually uses her body to fight looks like (Adeline Gray, three-time world champion wrestler from United States):







The second image is a good start for an heroic fantasy figure. Wrestling is a fantasy sport. The "warriors" symbolically win, but are not allowed to actually slaughter opponents! The crowd rousing costume uses the American Flag as its fabulous fantastical team motif. But it is still very real, more like decorated ordinary cycling clothes, but again with a flourish.

Figure stating Olympic "sports", today, unabashedly, expose as much of the body as feasible with the pretense of formality by using very beautiful silk and brocade fabrics, as if they were left overs from fabulous formal wedding gowns! But essentially, the skaters are meant to be as graceful and even sensual as possible.

By contrast your chosen wrestling star actually must be as physically powerful as possible for clasping, forcing and downing her opponent.

What do female warriors who actually fight, wear in wars, (knowing they might need to kill), risking their own lives? They "dress down", camouflaged, like like the Kurdish women guerilla fighters here!

Asher
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  #17  
Old July 9th, 2017, 05:22 AM
Wolfgang Plattner Wolfgang Plattner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
Can you still work iron plates?
Huu ... joking? This was hard work to do ...I'm not a craftsman anyway ... *lol*
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  #18  
Old July 9th, 2017, 07:06 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Jerome,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
I would think that a large part of the audience is composed of women slightly upset about poses difficult to explain by standard human anatomy and "battle gear" which nobody in their right mind would consider wearing in an actual combat.

I'll give an example. In most "fantasy" depiction of female warriors, when the female wears a cuirass, it separate the breasts. Nobody would do that, as it means that the wearer has a sharp metal object pointing right at the middle of her torso (the cuirass in reverse). Real female cuirasses did not separate the breast, here is a depiction (a copy of the body armour of Joan or Arc):



And a way cute Joan it is, even with her bosom unified.

Best regards,

Doug
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Old July 9th, 2017, 07:38 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Firstly, my congratulations to our new member from Ukraine for the wonderful photography.

That having been said, although I very much enjoy powerful women (I have the pleasure to be married to one), I am not really "energized" by photos of woman (no matter how fetching are their breasts) in fantastic costume or situations.

A photo like this does much more for me:



Photographer unknown: Pablo Picasso with his muse, Brigitte Bardot

or even this one (oh, no, sorry, Carla says I can't).

Best regards,

Doug
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  #20  
Old July 9th, 2017, 07:47 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Well, I saw the 2017 movie Wonder Woman last night and was so impressed. In the movie she is introduced on an island of only women. She was made of clay by her mother and the Gods from Mount Olympus breathed life into her. Amazing solid well developed character and very believable engaging plot in which she is called to save the world from the "War To End All Wars", World War II.



Her costume is certainly fabulous and fantastic, reflecting her figure and sex, but not at all sensual; except she's both beautiful and athletic. Her character is totally believable. She gradually realizes her full potential and is an iconic figure, but not tragic like Joan of Arc. I appreciate very much the building of a "persona of goodness" with as much craft as the amazingly rich fight scenes, that are so expertly layered and choreographed.

The only serious criticism is that the three evil characters are paper-thin caricatures with no background and insufficient development to take the roles they do as the arch villains.

I recommend the movie, by the way, and feel that Wonder Woman can serve as an, (albeit idealized), role model for young girls. This is so refreshing! Her job is to help other people as a force of good in the world. I like that very much!

Her beauty is just an attractive wrapping!

Asher
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  #21  
Old July 9th, 2017, 08:05 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
Firstly, my congratulations to our new member from Ukraine for the wonderful photography.

That having been said, although I very much enjoy powerful women (I have the pleasure to be married to one), I am not really "energized" by photos of woman (no matter how fetching are their breasts) in fantastic costume or situations.

A photo like this does much more for me:



Photographer unknown: Pablo Picasso with his muse, Brigitte Bardot

or even this one (oh, no, sorry, Carla says I can't).

Best regards,

Doug

Well, lucky Pablo, and a great find, Doug!

The breasts are apparently grown, so, to simulate our ape ancestor nubile women's bottom when she invites copulation. We still are wired to go for that imprinted hard-wired vision, now we are upright! We males have no choice, but, at the very least, take notice.
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  #22  
Old July 9th, 2017, 12:29 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang Plattner View Post
Huu ... joking? This was hard work to do ...I'm not a craftsman anyway ... *lol*
I understood so much. My post was also a try at humour.
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  #23  
Old July 9th, 2017, 12:30 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
or even this one (oh, no, sorry, Carla says I can't).
Now you are getting me interested.
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  #24  
Old July 9th, 2017, 12:33 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
The breasts are apparently grown, so, to simulate our ape ancestor nubile women's bottom when she invites copulation. We still are wired to go for that imprinted hard-wired vision, now we are upright! We males have no choice, but, at the very least, take notice.
This theory is disputed. For what it is worth, there are many cultures which do not associate breasts with erotic stimulation.
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Old July 9th, 2017, 12:42 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
This theory is disputed. For what it is worth, there are many cultures which do not associate breasts with erotic stimulation.
I spent a lot of time in Nigeria, Zimbabwe and South Africa, societies that trend from subsistence to more intense industrial and Western style. In that order, there is increasing erotic reaction to the naked female breast. This goes along with increasing Western influence. So you are not wrong in bringing caution to bear on acceptance of my remarks.

Still, the signaling of the swollen lips of aroused females has become physiologically linked to the face and it appears breasts too. Certainly, breast size of humans outranks those in other closely related species. These ideas are discussed and quoted, but as you imply, rigorous academic enquiry might be lacking. Still, overall, this seems to fit and is a fair working hypothesis.

Asher
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  #26  
Old July 9th, 2017, 01:17 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Jerome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
Now you are getting me interested.
Just playing!

Best regards,

Doug
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