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  #1  
Old October 7th, 2018, 07:54 PM
Steve Clay Steve Clay is offline
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Default RG665 Portrait

- Emily - Schott RG665 Portrait (please keep photo left justified).
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  #2  
Old October 8th, 2018, 03:30 AM
Roshni Patel Roshni Patel is offline
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It's looking unique!
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  #3  
Old October 8th, 2018, 08:22 AM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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I don't understand the premise of this image...I am slow!! Why?
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  #4  
Old October 8th, 2018, 10:01 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Clay View Post
- Emily - Schott RG665 Portrait (please keep photo left justified).

Steve,

Thanks for sharing this unique work.

Of course, we don’t actually know the answer to Fahim’s question. Perhaps that is itself your intent, for us to ask such a question?

In a gallery, I would find it interesting and so would stop to take it in.

Asher
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  #5  
Old October 8th, 2018, 03:39 PM
bob friedman bob friedman is offline
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i think this is a great candidate for "name that photo"
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  #6  
Old October 8th, 2018, 03:47 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Clay View Post
- Emily - Schott RG665 Portrait (please keep photo left justified).
Steve,

Did you have a particular “intent”, (as Fahim implies), or did you just happen to get that result with this technical filter?

Asher
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  #7  
Old October 8th, 2018, 04:29 PM
Steve Clay Steve Clay is offline
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She is a ghost, an Angel from the great beyond, photographed with the RG665 longpass filter, a mix of red and IR.
It is true, some people try to capture such mysterious 'phenomenon' with special cameras and filters.
I myself am a skeptic, but I think I may have actually captured an other worldly entity for the first time, but strictly by accident you understand.
It is, after all, the ghostly month of October, I am already eating pumpkin enchiladas, you need to get in the 'spirit' of things.

Thanks, I like the left hand justified photos.
Actually personally when I quote, if I need to quote, I usually don't include their photo(s), it makes the topic much harder to scroll through, etc..
I don't see any need to 'quote' a photo into my replies, but if you want to do that...
But scrolling up and down through multiple copies of the same photo... isn't that what they did to Malcolm McDowell in Clockwork Orange?!

The meaning to life is not about intention. It is about discovery. Like discovering an Angel. ;-)
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  #8  
Old October 8th, 2018, 11:49 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Clay View Post
She is a ghost, an Angel from the great beyond, photographed with the RG665 longpass filter, a mix of red and IR.
It is true, some people try to capture such mysterious 'phenomenon' with special cameras and filters.
I myself am a skeptic, but I think I may have actually captured an other worldly entity for the first time, but strictly by accident you understand.
It is, after all, the ghostly month of October, I am already eating pumpkin enchiladas, you need to get in the 'spirit' of things.

I welcome your great sense of humor and your candid approach to creation of art. You admit an accident!

I thought of 3 possibilities:
1. "Jerking my chain" since I had bugged you with my obsessional formatting with "white space" and aversion to any jamming disparate pictures together in crowded defy-justified block!

2. "A happenstance occurrence" on experimenting with a fine technical filter.

3. "An original invented effect" of a "facial mask", disguise, shield or concealment to create an image which evokes broad unsettling questions for example of identity, safety and more.
For me, thinking I deserved a ribbing, I didn't want to fall into a trap of declaring some occurrence of possibility #3 as that could be a trap as you might just be joking around and not seriously creating a mask.

Having said that, the serendipity of using the filter, led you to recognize its uniqueness and share it as a puzzle for us to deal with. In doing so, you have, IMHO, created art worthy of our attention. This is no different fro discovering driftwood, coughed up by the surf. This picture is important as a motif, as it allows anyone to enter into an imaginary exploration of this odd world ......and what it might mean.

Asher
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  #9  
Old October 9th, 2018, 12:10 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Clay View Post
................

The meaning to life is not about intention. It is about discovery. Like discovering an Angel. ;-)

I am not looking for the "meaning of life" here, just enjoying art. On the way. I hope we get to illuminate what man does and how we look after each other and the planet over which we have claimed dominion.

There may not actually be a meaning in life beyond its existence and seeming wish to survive.

for art, you raise an important challenging question on the place or need for "intent". I think that intent might occur in the "Cathedral of the Mind", an hypothetical arena where ideas are entertained and demonstrated for review.

An artist is able to use this tom-foolery in a controlled and disciplined fashion to formulate an export ideas into a physical form, be it a song, poetry, a new tool or art.In the process of construction, however, the artwork seems to get an identity and give feedback to the artist and so the end result might only be distantly related to the original spark of an idea. Still, we do have intent as the inciting force.

Discovering that your cyan-tinged close portraits engaging essentially reproduced what happens inside the hidden parts of our brains. Except here you were fortunate to come across it by chance. Well, not quite by chance. How many folk are exploring at the boundaries of what they are sure about and risk wasting their time?

The very act of being open to new experience4 is part of the path to creativity. Agreed, it want your intent to create art, but your expiration, (like walking along the beach with your eyes open wide), allows one to repurpose the ordinary chance find to something worth holding onto as art.

Even not having an explanation for the strange appearance of the picture, is no hindrance to it being worthy of saving.

Now at this point, Fahim, likely feels I have perhaps been ingesting a tad to much of the available weed. But I don't need weed. This is my natural state!

...and BTW, the technical aspects of this picture, such as sharpness or anything else does not detract from its worth as something creative that I admire.

Asher
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  #10  
Old October 9th, 2018, 06:55 AM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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Everything is with intent.

Even discovery starts with an intent. The intent to discover.

As to October being the ghost month...one could also say it is July...if one believes in such things so as to wander off to capture their image.

I don’t know what ghosts look like...never seen one. Nor have any intention of getting one on film or as a companion.

Hence cannot comment on images of ghosts captured in visible or natural light. Or any other of EM spectrum. With or without nm filters.

p.s. I wonder if ghosts prefer left centered images!
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  #11  
Old October 9th, 2018, 11:20 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahim mohammed View Post
Everything is with intent.

Even discovery starts with an intent. The intent to discover.

As to October being the ghost month...one could also say it is July...if one believes in such things so as to wander off to capture their image.

I don’t know what ghosts look like...never seen one. Nor have any intention of getting one on film or as a companion.

Hence cannot comment on images of ghosts captured in visible or natural light. Or any other of EM spectrum. With or without nm filters.

p.s. I wonder if ghosts prefer left centered images!
Actually, Fahim, ghosts in July are so disorganized and clumsy, clinging to walls with their left hand! In October they gain vigor and can stand in the center and do have cyan faces, at least here in Beverly Hills.

BTW, we don’t have to believe in Magic to appreciate the derivative art. After all, you visit all sorts of heathen temples and shrines, just for the culture and art!

Same here with ghosts, goblins and georgeous girls offering gifts of gleaming gold!

Asher
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  #12  
Old October 9th, 2018, 08:13 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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I must admit that this picture is also important to me as it is making me think. Not of necessarily using exactly the same filter as you did, here, Steve. But it does stimulate me to make my pictures marked with my own thoughts and damn what everyone else thinks about what they need in a picture, unless they hire me and then I work for their pleasure.

Asher
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  #13  
Old October 9th, 2018, 08:18 PM
Steve Clay Steve Clay is offline
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It is not important. It is about what it is about for you, if it is about anything for you at all.
I don't have an 'artist's statement'. You don't need to know the moment of creation.
You can't, I am not going to tell you.
I am not going to talk about the reason or meaning of a photo.
If you are attracted to a photo, then don't ask me why, ask your self, find the reason and the meaning in yourself. My meaning has nothing to do with your meaning.
You are welcome to talk about a meaning you find or feel.

I have seen some rather nice photos posted on here, only to be asked "why?", "Is that marketable?", and a few other rather derogatory remarks that leave the artist with nothing.
Do you think art is marketing? It is not, marketing is business, how do you even imagine someone would want to market a photo anyway? Not everyone does.
To reduce your comment to that question alone seems a bit stale and dry.

If you don't like something, move on, if you like something, enjoy, but if you need a Xeroxed handout to make you understand a photo, then put your wine and cheese down,
go home, warm up a TV dinner, and park your self in front of Star Trek.
You will get more out of that endeavor I think.
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  #14  
Old October 9th, 2018, 08:34 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Clay View Post
It is not important. It is about what it is about for you, if it is about anything for you at all.
I don't have an 'artist's statement'. You don't need to know the moment of creation.
You can't, I am not going to tell you.
I am not going to talk about the reason or meaning of a photo.
If you are attracted to a photo, then don't ask me why, ask your self, find the reason and the meaning in yourself. My meaning has nothing to do with your meaning.
You are welcome to talk about a meaning you find or feel.

I have seen some rather nice photos posted on here, only to be asked "why?", "Is that marketable?", and a few other rather derogatory remarks that leave the artist with nothing.
Do you think art is marketing? It is not, marketing is business, how do you even imagine someone would want too market a photo anyway? You have reduced art to a marketable quantity?
Even without being asked? Is that art to you?

If you don't like something, move on, if you like something, enjoy, but if you need a xeroxed handout to make you understand a photo, then put your wine and cheese down,
go home, warm up a TV dinner, and park your self in front of an episode of Star Trek.
You will get more out of that endeavor I think.
Steve,

Please don't judge me by that remark of "marketability". In context, a lot of folk want to know whether a picture might have a good chance of selling for a particular market. I do not advocate marketing. I don't do marketing, I don't take marketing courses or teach it. However, I do have some sense of what might sell to whom. I am no expert but any least have some sense of the matter.

Whether or not a picture is marketable is unimportant to me. I make my art since "I need to" not to fill some standard outside of me.

It is not necessary of course for anyone to disclose their route to making a picture. Some are delighted to do exactly that, others not.

...and we would be foolish asking the curator what was the f stop and lens of a particular picture for sale.

Still when the artist does share that information is special and a kind gift.

As to your picture, the only thing that concerned me was not whether I liked it, (as I did from the outset), but rather was this a stratagem to have an opinionated self-professed art-lover, spout forth on "the blessings of your offerings" and then to be Banksied with, "Sorry, fellow, this was just a joke, I meant nothing, it means nothing and your appreciation is arts-farts nonsense!".

Asher
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  #15  
Old October 10th, 2018, 02:24 AM
Steve Clay Steve Clay is offline
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It's not so much about marketability, It is about appreciation.
Not about my one or two photos I have posted on here, but about others.

You know the old saying,
"it's not the product, it's the process".
Meaning art isn't about the end product, it is about the process, the moment, a place that only the artist creator experiences, and the end product is not the point for the artist.
The product of all art is in a way just a snap shot of the process of the artist's moment.
If the creator/artist is thinking about the product, then the artist is missing the point.

You will never know or understand the moment of any art, except your own art, you will never know the reason, intent, or the experience someone else had, you will never know that, you will only know the product, even if the artist explains the moment, intent, etc., to you.
I will not tell you, I think it is unhealthy to tell you.

Go get yourself some pumpkin enchiladas before they are all gone.
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  #16  
Old October 10th, 2018, 03:32 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Steve,

For the artist, it may be one thing, as you claim, the process that’s important. But I could argue whether that may be just your view or can be generalized.

For the greater public, art is a treasure for them to be saved for future generations. I see no reason why folk can’t explain their intent, struggles and motivations. Many artists like to do that. I also find no reason not to believe them.

Everyone has a slightly different take.

I personally believe that when an artist likes to explain, its a gift to us and we can learn a lot.

When an artist just presents the end product that may be sufficient for us, as we can benefit from that photograph or music again and again.

I appreciate this picture and that you shared how it came to be made. That was valuable to me, and I thank you for that. But I would value it even if you disclosed nothing. The picture stands on its own now!

Asher
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  #17  
Old October 10th, 2018, 03:36 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Explain the pumpkin enchiladas? Better still make a picture!

Asher
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  #18  
Old October 11th, 2018, 08:37 PM
Steve Clay Steve Clay is offline
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Hypothetically, lets say I told you I had no intent.
Does that change your experience of the photo? Should it?
Overall, the above questions are an intellectual dissection of something that has nothing to do with your actual experience of the photo/art.
The artist may talk about it, or they may not.
Experience the art yourself, without an instruction manual, with no access to the artist.

Asher, you are taking this too personal.
A few of your comments make very good examples, but even this topic alone, for example, it is not just you who is asking about intent.

One person doesn't understand my intent, seeks my explanation, and then later explains that everything is with intention.
You also ask about my intention. And later present a multiple choice list of possible meanings of my 'Angle' post.

I click the recent posts button up top in the main forums page, and I see mostly two people who have posted in the last 5 days.
Perhaps that button isn't showing me everything that is being posted in those 5 days?
Just wondering if some of the questions scare people from posting?

Again, don't take it personal, but maybe something to think about, just my personal opinion and reaction to many of the posts I have seen here.
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Old October 11th, 2018, 08:48 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Look here. This too!

These recent images do not ever require knowledge of intent. They speak for themselves and are immediately interesting and readily reachable by both our emotions and intellect.

Your picture, (drawing a huge attention, by the way), being so obviously abnormal is far more challenging and gets few comments. Likely, because we are intimidated!

........If it so happens that you wish to be our gracious guide, we’d appreciate that. Otherwise we consider broader possibilities, which could be what you wish. We have no idea without your guidance. If that doesn’t matter to you, that, indifference again, is part of the works’ description.

In works of art, one cannot simply dismiss thecartists intent if that artist considers that integral to the work. Sometimes intent can play little to no role and I accept that proposition, but it’s not universal.

I just happened to cast my lot with a conclusion that the picture of worthy of attention. That’s not to curry favor or be liked, just my placement of the picture amongst what I have ever experienced.

It so happens that I received mail about this picture and my responses are an attempt to address that strong interest.

I am just left impressed with the obvious interest in your picture, even though there are few voices here!

Asher
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  #20  
Old October 12th, 2018, 01:19 AM
Steve Clay Steve Clay is offline
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The only reason anyone is looking at this topic is because we are arguing.
Not because of the portrait I posted.
Someone on the planet disagrees with you. People tune into CNN for that stuff all the time.
I don't think either of us is involved in this discussion to get attention, it is just because we think differently.
We will probably always think differently. People do that. ;-)

When you look at a photo or art, feel it, feel what you have been given first.
You are here to feel, not to ask why.
Consider the artist, their emotions, before you ask questions.
Always appreciate first.
Don't ask question if you don't feel something first.
I have said everything several times over for now, and we disagree once again, enough said.
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  #21  
Old October 12th, 2018, 04:47 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Steve,

I think you miss my point. I always start with feelings or else I would ignore the picture! Notice I have no technical critique at all! That comes from high respect of the work as it is.

What’s always important to me is my feelings that your picture evokes in my heart and consequent ideas in my brain....and then, only then,

......the feelings and thoughts of the artist that sent this into the public arena.

I have only debated this as others asked “what was this?” I hope I answered that it is both unique and worthy. Furthermore this portrait at close intimate distance could be a metaphor for some kind of mask or hiding of human identity or thoughts. That’s it!

Asher
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  #22  
Old October 12th, 2018, 07:41 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Steve,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Clay View Post
It is not important. It is about what it is about for you, if it is about anything for you at all.
I don't have an 'artist's statement'. You don't need to know the moment of creation.
You can't, I am not going to tell you.
I am not going to talk about the reason or meaning of a photo.
If you are attracted to a photo, then don't ask me why, ask your self, find the reason and the meaning in yourself. My meaning has nothing to do with your meaning.
You are welcome to talk about a meaning you find or feel.

I have seen some rather nice photos posted on here, only to be asked "why?", "Is that marketable?", and a few other rather derogatory remarks that leave the artist with nothing.
Do you think art is marketing? It is not, marketing is business, how do you even imagine someone would want to market a photo anyway? Not everyone does.
To reduce your comment to that question alone seems a bit stale and dry.

If you don't like something, move on, if you like something, enjoy, but if you need a Xeroxed handout to make you understand a photo, then put your wine and cheese down,
go home, warm up a TV dinner, and park your self in front of Star Trek.
You will get more out of that endeavor I think.
As for me, I just don't like it.

I will ask Carla to bring me a cup of coffee and a Stroopwafel. I only have TV dinners when she is out of town.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #23  
Old October 12th, 2018, 09:17 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Thanks for your openness Doug.









I don’t “like” it either, but I am simply arguing that it’s “attention-getting” and once we are stopped in our tracks, flummoxed, then it becomes “of value” if we now attempt to find meaning. I use it as an aesthetic and social challenge, as it works for me as such!

....and so, in the end, it’s important enough to debate. Anything that has us re-evaluate our assumptions on social values is worthy of our sustained attention!

Asher
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