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  #1  
Old January 23rd, 2012, 11:25 AM
Ron Morse Ron Morse is offline
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Default Acadia Nat Park

I hope this is the right place to put this.

I am in the impossible/daunting task of organizing film envelops from the last few years. Found these I never showed. From June 2008.

EOS 3 Zeiss Flek 35 f/2.4

Says S 400 on the negs so I'm guessing its Fuji Superia 400 since I used to use it a lot.

Cadillac mountain, looking over the town of Bar, Harbor. Acadia Nat. Park. Sun going down.






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  #2  
Old January 23rd, 2012, 01:20 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Morse View Post
I hope this is the right place to put this.

I am in the impossible/daunting task of organizing film envelops from the last few years. Found these I never showed. From June 2008.
Ron,

This is a treat. I love it when one finds the treasures one put way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Morse View Post
EOS 3 Zeiss Flek 35 f/2.4

Says S 400 on the negs so I'm guessing its Fuji Superia 400 since I used to use it a lot.

Cadillac mountain, looking over the town of Bar, Harbor. Acadia Nat. Park. Sun going down.






The film colors seem to go especially well with the landscape, doing well in the greens and sienna-browns. How did you scan? We all should see what film we have!

This is like a woman shopping from her closet for clothes. It's always surprising what delightful things we allow ourselves to forget!

Asher
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  #3  
Old January 23rd, 2012, 04:45 PM
Ron Morse Ron Morse is offline
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Thank you Asher.

My problem right now is that I'm having is finding so many negs that I would like to rescan. I could be months at this unless I curb myself.

Things done back when I had the Epson 2450 were mediocre and thats being very generous to the scanner and I guess to myself. When I got the Epson V750 M Pro It was a great stride forward. The 35mm scans never were quite what I thought they should be however. MF like my Mamiya RZ67 negs look great to my less than professional eye though. Regardless of Epsons claims, tests show the 750 to only be a 2300/2400 dpi scanner. The focus for 35mm is the let down though. I'm using a canon FS4000 scanner for 35mm now and thrilled at the difference. Tests show it to be a true 4000dpi scanner and probable as important as anything it auto-focuses very well. At 2000dpi its not too slow but at 3200dpi and 4000dpi it isn't any speed demon. However for the quality that I can now get, I'll happily wait as it whirs and buzzes along. I'm using Vuescan so I can get 16/48 bit scans. I do a pass for the highlights and a pass for the shadows. I scan the negs as a positive and invert in PS.

I should just organize and stop looking at the negs.

I just scanned some slides of my mother, aunt, uncle and grandmother from 1974. Shouldn't have done that. I got a little misty eyed. Wonderful old memories.
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  #4  
Old January 23rd, 2012, 11:46 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Well, you're lucky to have that canon scanner. Do they even make it any longer. I think a few pop up on eBay.

Asher
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  #5  
Old January 24th, 2012, 12:15 AM
charlie chipman charlie chipman is offline
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Hi Ron.
Why are you scanning your negatives as positives and inverting them in photoshop?
I've tried this but there is more color correction needed than when I scan the negative as a negative.
I am just curious of your experience. I'm pretty new to scanning.
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  #6  
Old January 24th, 2012, 01:52 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie chipman View Post
Hi Ron.
Why are you scanning your negatives as positives and inverting them in photoshop?
I've tried this but there is more color correction needed than when I scan the negative as a negative.
I am just curious of your experience. I'm pretty new to scanning.
Hi Charlie,

When the scanner allows to adjust the per channel exposure time, it will be possible to neutralise the color of the film base/mask. Vuescan is very helpful in achieving that. After that it becomes much easier to adjust colors along the characteristic film curve. All that's then needed is a good tone curve. The dedicated fim scanners can vary the exposure time per channel, the Epson V700/750 does not.

Cheers,
Bart
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  #7  
Old January 24th, 2012, 02:54 AM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
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Originally Posted by Bart_van_der_Wolf View Post
Hi Charlie,

When the scanner allows to adjust the per channel exposure time, it will be possible to neutralise the color of the film base/mask. Vuescan is very helpful in achieving that. After that it becomes much easier to adjust colors along the characteristic film curve. All that's then needed is a good tone curve. The dedicated fim scanners can vary the exposure time per channel, the Epson V700/750 does not.

Cheers,
Bart
Indeed. I have the Canon FS4000US also and I use Vuescan. I scan negatives as negatives in Vuescan, it delivers the best results compared to removing the colour mask in Photoshop.
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  #8  
Old January 24th, 2012, 08:44 AM
Ron Morse Ron Morse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie chipman View Post
Hi Ron.
Why are you scanning your negatives as positives and inverting them in photoshop?
I've tried this but there is more color correction needed than when I scan the negative as a negative.
I am just curious of your experience. I'm pretty new to scanning.
Hi Charlie,

I have tried it both ways many times and am always happier going with the positive. I believe I get better colors with very little work.

I always include a little from between the frames in each scan. When I invert it that will be black, I click the black dropper on that for my black point in levels. Then I adjust red, green and blue channels and the colors are about right to my eyes. Then a quick crop to get rid of the black edge. I can do it quicker than I can type this. Sometimes I'll hit auto tone and auto color after adjusting the channels. Most of the time it doesn't do anything. Once in a while it will look ever so slightly better or worse. Then I do what ever I want to the image. Oh, I always scan as a tiff of course.
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  #9  
Old January 24th, 2012, 09:07 AM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Originally Posted by Ron Morse View Post
I always include a little from between the frames in each scan. When I invert it that will be black, I click the black dropper on that for my black point in levels.
Hi Ron,

That (mask or base color removal method) should work with any scanner, although the results will be superior if you get the per channel exposure times right during the scanning process. It will result in much less noise, because the green and blue channels will collect more photons (which leads to a higher Signal to Noise ratio).

Quote:
Then I adjust red, green and blue channels and the colors are about right to my eyes.
Yes, it shouldn't require much more to get correct colors if the film was stored and processed correctly. However, due to the huge dynamic range of CN film, the result may look a bit flat and dull, but adding an s-shaped tonecurve will fix that. Slide film can be more fiddly because the D-max of the R/G/B curves is different and contrast is much higher.

Cheers,
Bart
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  #10  
Old January 24th, 2012, 09:37 AM
Ron Morse Ron Morse is offline
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Bart, you never fail to amaze me with your knowledge of everything camera. Honestly.

Quote:
That (mask or base color removal method) should work with any scanner, although the results will be superior if you get the per channel exposure times right during the scanning process. It will result in much less noise, because the green and blue channels will collect more photons (which leads to a higher Signal to Noise ratio).
Can you explain how to do this? I use Dfine-2.0 on every image and it seems to do a great job.
Maybe you are referring to finding the white point in scanner which will be the black point when inverted. That is what I used to do all the time in silverfast with the Epson 750.

I do find the images slightly flat but is is very quick and easy to fix as you say. A plus is I don't get the odd color casts anymore and the whole process doesn't take long.
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  #11  
Old January 24th, 2012, 11:27 AM
Ron Morse Ron Morse is offline
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I,m not sure if Bart meant finding the white point in the scanner or not until he gets back. I ran a picture that was already in the film holder setting the white point in scanner. The image had very little noise but ran Dfine 2.0 anyway. Did my red, green and blue in levels, a small s curve and sharpened. I wish I had it a little better in focus. I remember taking the picture very well even though it was 2008. It was the first time I had used the EF 100 f/2.8 on my EOS3 and the wind was blowing, frustrating me. I probable should have shot at f/11 or f/16 to get more in focus

In hindsight I shouldn't have run Dfine 2.0 to see what a difference setting white point in scanner made. I would like to set black point in scanner also but can't seem to get it worked out. Maybe moving the edge of the frame over enough to get some black showing also. I will wait for Bart before trying that.

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Old January 24th, 2012, 01:44 PM
Bart_van_der_Wolf Bart_van_der_Wolf is offline
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Originally Posted by Ron Morse View Post
Bart, you never fail to amaze me with your knowledge of everything camera. Honestly.
At times, I amaze myself ;-) When I used to work for Kodak (in better times, many moons ago), they used to jokingly call me the walking encyclopedia. They were obviously wrong, because I still learn something new every day.

Quote:
Can you explain how to do this? I use Dfine-2.0 on every image and it seems to do a great job.
Maybe you are referring to finding the white point in scanner which will be the black point when inverted.
Yes, that's it, the scanner+filmmask whitepoint. VueScan has what Ed Hamrick calls an Advanced Workflow, which balances the channel exposure times based on a piece of the film leader or the between-image space. That effectively neutralizes the masking layer, but maintains what ever color balance/cast there may be in the almost transparent shadow areas (it is e.g. no problem if the shadows under a tree canopy look slightly brown/green, because they do). That also maximises the signal levels in all three channels right up to the clipping point for the shadows at 65535 in 16-bit. That also means that the less transparent highlights also have the maximum signal possible, without losing any shadow data. VueScan also allows to verify that by optionally showing the Raw data histogram, or a simulated Optical Density reading (one of my requests that made it into the software).

Quote:
That is what I used to do all the time in silverfast with the Epson 750.
AFAIK the V750 doesn't allow to vary the per channel exposure times, so I assume that Silverfast does an auto-level processing.

Quote:
I do find the images slightly flat but is is very quick and easy to fix as you say. A plus is I don't get the odd color casts anymore and the whole process doesn't take long.
That's right, waiting for the scan pass itself takes more time, and coffee ;-).

Cheers,
Bart
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  #13  
Old January 24th, 2012, 02:22 PM
Ron Morse Ron Morse is offline
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Thank you so very much for freely sharing your knowledge Bart. I TRULY appreciate it.

Now to some serious practice.
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  #14  
Old January 25th, 2012, 10:22 AM
charlie chipman charlie chipman is offline
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Thank you guys for sharing your techniques.
Much appreciated.
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  #15  
Old January 25th, 2012, 04:14 PM
Ron Morse Ron Morse is offline
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Thanks Charlie, however Bart, Cem and probable a lot of others here have forgotten more about scanning than I will probable ever know.
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  #16  
Old January 25th, 2012, 04:26 PM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
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Thanks Charlie, however Bart, Cem and probable a lot of others here have forgotten more about scanning than I will probable ever know.
Ron this is eerily accurate actually. The number of hours I've spent trying to scan film properly is outrageous. But it does not necessarily mean that I know all there is to know about it. I have stopped scanning regularly a couple of years ago and the knowledge is getting lost very quickly. Nowadays, I mostly take the easy route of photographing film on a light table using my 5Dii and the 100mm macro. Only the best frames which are print candidates get the scanner treatment.
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  #17  
Old February 9th, 2012, 10:00 PM
Alice Hurley Alice Hurley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie chipman View Post
Hi Ron.
Why are you scanning your negatives as positives and inverting them in photoshop?
I've tried this but there is more color correction needed than when I scan the negative as a negative.
I am just curious of your experience. I'm pretty new to scanning.
Scanning negative as positive is up to 2 times faster.. :

When I am working I load 1/2 of my roll and scanning it as positive..
When done, I load the other half and scan it..
While the scanner is scanning I'm reverting the previous scanned negatives..
Then use the lightroom for the final touch..

Usually I'm done before the scanner finish its job..
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