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  #1  
Old August 24th, 2006, 02:30 PM
Brian Lowe Brian Lowe is offline
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Default Who uses * (CF-4) for focusing and why?

Please help me understand this function better as so many of you use it, I must be missing something?
I have a 1DMKIIn and a lot of shooter i have noticed use the CF-4 but why * for focusing.
I tried this a few times or, I just or maybe I am a little slow but what if the benefit of shooting this way?

Many people use * for focusing but, I still can figure out why everybody prefers th
is.


Can some of you explain how & why you use this custom function I really want to know?



Kindly,

Brian
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  #2  
Old August 24th, 2006, 02:39 PM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
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Here's a quote from the Sports Basics thread that touches on this question:

"As for focus, try center point only (I've experimented with CF17-1 and -2 on the 1-series bodies and have gone back to CF17-0, and I find auto focus point selection useful only for birds in flight), AI servo of course, and CF4-3 to activate AF with the * button. That takes a little getting used to, but once you do it makes it a lot easier to lead the AF before hitting the shutter, and to keep tracking the subject with AF on while hitting the shutter periodically. It also allows you to effectively use AI servo as one-shot to lock focus and recompose, just by focusing with * and then releasing it to lock focus, e.g., for reaction shots of the bench. (CF4-3 gives you a new AE reading for each frame in a burst. This is useful when you're tracking players in and out of sun and shadow. CF4-1 locks AE at the half shutter press, so every frame in a burst gets the same exposure. Some people prefer that; I don't.)

"IMPORTANT: Note that on all Canon DSLR's, in AI servo the first frame in a burst is release-priority, i.e., the shutter will fire even if focus is not acquired. Subsequent frames in the burst are focus-priority. The result is you will not infrequently find that the first frame in a sequence is OOF, and subsequent frames sharp. The best cure for this is leading the AF and giving it a chance to catch up to the subject before you fire the shutter, and also always firing at least two or three frames, as you have a better chance of the later ones being in focus."

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  #3  
Old August 24th, 2006, 02:42 PM
Stan Jirman Stan Jirman is offline
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Not _everybody_ prefers it :)* I gave it a honest try for about a month with the 1N (film days) and really didn't see any benefits. However, I do see now that my subject matter has changed slightly that it may be beneficial to control focus separately. My compromise is to have the * key STOP AF when pressed - that way I can get my usual behavior but also force the focus to freeze. Plus, the big long whites have AF stop buttons...
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  #4  
Old August 24th, 2006, 08:22 PM
Randy Brister Randy Brister is offline
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It may not be for everyone, but pretty much every sports action photographer I know, including myself, uses Custom #4 with focus on the *.

Randy
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  #5  
Old August 24th, 2006, 09:51 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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I had been using Custom #4 with focus on the *. Previously with no problems.

However, last weekend, I found that a number of lenses wouldn't work when I took out my 5D to shoot at the Camarillo Air Show. I reset the functions and everything worked.

Now with my 1DII, I just commit about 0.5 second or so to acquire focus of planes going 50-200 MPH and then passing several hundred feet away. Then with servo, the camera just is locked on and all the pictures are focused well.

So essentially I am, in a way, recomposing as I pan in servo. So what might be the point (i.e. the advantage) of separating the focus to * by using function #4?

Asher
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  #6  
Old August 24th, 2006, 10:29 PM
Randy Brister Randy Brister is offline
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Asher, in this situation there wouldn't be an advantage. However, say I have a catcher walk out to a baseball mound to talk to the pitcher. They're standing 3 feet apart talking, and I want to compose them both more or less centered. If focus and shutter are on the same button, and I'm in AI Servo, the camera focuses on the fence in the background. Yeah, I could change the focus point, but it is much easier, at least for me, to simply focus on one of the players, then release they focus button, recompose and press the shutter.

Say I'm following a running back carrying the football and a referee, or another player suddenly blocks the frame. I can simply release the focus button until that object is out of the way, without the lens going crazy trying to jump from subject to subject.

I could name dozens of situations where this set up makes sense for the way I shoot. During the course of a game, any game that I photograph, the * focus makes life much easier. By the way, Custom Function 4 set this way is what Sports Illustrated recommends for all it's photographers who shoot Canon, and I'm not aware of any who don't utilize it.

Randy
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  #7  
Old August 25th, 2006, 08:23 AM
Brian Hamfeldt Brian Hamfeldt is offline
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I use CF4 set to 2 - where the AF is locked only when I press the * button - like Stan utilizes. All of my shooters have adopted this style of focus and I really think it depends on both subject matter and duration.

Consider my shooting style for the events that I cover... 20-40 kids on a stage for two minutes. Pause 1 minute and then another set of kids. In that two minutes, I am handholding a 1D series body with at least 200/1.8 - sometimes with 1.4x. This goes on for up to 14 hours per day.

By using the * to stop AF, I have the liberty of re-composing any time I need to - which is the not the common framing need. For most of the shots, I have my subject square in the middle and utilize the 'primary' button for aquisition, tracking and then firing. I'll vary the settings of CF-17 and CF-20 depending on my lens, subject and background.

But if I were to use the * button for full time AF, which needs to be on almost constantly, with different subjects almost every shot, and getting 80-100 unique shots in two minutes, then I would literally be fatiguing my hand by having to hold the camera with only my last three fingers and palm - instead of using my opposing thumb to do all the grip. (yes, I'm one of the lucky ones that has an opposing thumb ;) )

I can certainly see in alot of sports where the plays are once a minute and last about 10 seconds long that fatigue would not be an issue and you have more fingers working for you to capture the shots.

Something that I tell every photographer is that every camera has its limitations - even the 1D (1,2,N) bodies that we use - but it's a matter of understanding those limitations and working with what you have - coupled with the knowledge or anticipating your subject (both movement and environment) to effectively and repetively get great shots. Many of us ol' timers remember the day when great shots could be had with manual everything on a camera (even manual focus!)

So I think it is a matter of what works for each - in their situation. Certainly by willing to try other things allows one to find what works best for them.

Brian.
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  #8  
Old August 25th, 2006, 08:51 AM
Brian Lowe Brian Lowe is offline
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Everyone this is great information and it really helps me understand this a lot better. I knew this form would come through for me.


Please keep responding I would like to hear more of your thoughts on this subject.


Many thanks,
Brian
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  #9  
Old August 25th, 2006, 09:50 AM
dhphoto dhphoto is offline
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I think it is the autofocus version of focusing the lens with one hand and the activating shutter release with the other. It separates focusing from releasing the shutter.

Used in conjunction with the centre AF point it means you can focus precisely on what ever you want at any time and then shoot shots at will, and with CF 4,3 it will judge the exposure at the point of release.

Very useful if you want to pick someone out of a crowd or focus on eyes or similar

David
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  #10  
Old August 25th, 2006, 10:57 AM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
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BTW, anybody interested in this discussion will almost certainly also be interested in this document.

Nill
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  #11  
Old August 25th, 2006, 11:30 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Nil,

This PDF is important for everyone to have read. We are putting together a resource page. this will be on it!

Asher

Last edited by Asher Kelman; August 28th, 2006 at 11:36 PM.
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  #12  
Old August 28th, 2006, 11:25 PM
Alan T. Price Alan T. Price is offline
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I use CFn 4 in a slightly different way.

At first I tried using the typical way in which pressing * causes AF to operate and pressing the shutter button captures the image. Probably due to lack of practice I found that when things got exciting I was taking photos but not holding the * button down and so I lost focus too often.

Then I went the opposite tack. I use the shutter release button for both the AF and the shutter release but I use the * button to cancel the AF. This way, the AF is far more likely to do the right thing in the thick of the action and I still have control over AF when things are slower and I want to lock AF on something else at my leisure.

To do this I have the function set to 2.
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  #13  
Old August 29th, 2006, 01:58 PM
Kirk Thompson Kirk Thompson is offline
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Simplest answer: If you autofocus with the * button, your DSLR becomes the Michelin Man's Leica. It's the nearest thing to shooting with a rangefinder camera.
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  #14  
Old September 1st, 2006, 02:23 AM
Tim Armes Tim Armes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lowe
Please help me understand this function better as so many of you use it, I must be missing something?
I have a 1DMKIIn and a lot of shooter i have noticed use the CF-4 but why * for focusing.
I tried this a few times or, I just or maybe I am a little slow but what if the benefit of shooting this way?

Many people use * for focusing but, I still can figure out why everybody prefers th
is.

Can some of you explain how & why you use this custom function I really want to know?
Hi Brian,

You've had lots of good answers. You can see that it really comes down to what you' shooting.

I would suggest that using the * for focussing is really most useful when in AI-servo mode, as you would be if you're shooting moving subjects. In one shot mode this configuration loses it's interest.

The advantage doesn't really lie in the ability to prefocus on the subject since you can normally do that with a half press of the shutter - the advantage is that you can quickly do a one-shot focus by pressing and releasing the * button. This allows you to one-shot focus on the occassional static subject and then recompose, which you can't normally do in AI-servo mode. Also, you can pan with a subject and stop the focus temporarily if another subject crosses the view.

Furthermore, with a ring USM lens you can manual focus at any time by simply not pressing the button.

Some people advocate using this configuration all the time since you can quickly decide between one-shot, AI servo and manual focussing without changing modes or flicking switches. I tried this for a while, however in practice I didn't like it because the single press/release of the button for one-shot focussing doesn't give you a focus lock indication, and the first shot can be taken when the focus isn't locked. I now only use this mode on shoots involving primarily moving subjects.

Tim
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  #15  
Old September 12th, 2006, 05:42 AM
Alan T. Price Alan T. Price is offline
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Default a small problem with CFn4=2

One drawback I've found with setting the custom function 4 to 2 is that the 1D2 will not take a picture when I have the lens set to manual focus or use a manual lens, unless I hold the the * button in while pressing the shutter button.

Explanation:
Having the function set to 2 tells the camera to apply AF when the shutter button is half-pressed, but of course it cannot do AF if the lens is set to MF so the camera just refuses to release the shutter. When I press the * button that pauses (not cancels) AF so the camera is no longer expecting AF to operate. The shutter button is then allowed to release the shutter.

Is this a bad set-up ? Not really. It is a bit inconvenient when shooting with manual TS-E lenses but on the other hand I prefer the convenience of having the shutter button doing the AF when I'm using the auto focusing lenses.
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  #16  
Old September 13th, 2006, 09:38 AM
John_Schwaller John_Schwaller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman
Nil,

This PDF is important for everyone to have read. We are putting together a resource page. this will be on it!

Asher
Asher, while not a 1-series, you may also want to add this article
http://doug.kerr.home.att.net/pumpki...CF04_chart.pdf

John
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  #17  
Old September 13th, 2006, 10:41 AM
Rense Posthumus Rense Posthumus is offline
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Main reason forme:
Think of the following situation:
you see an object you want to focus on, but is is rather dark and not in the right position.

Without having focuslock on * you press halfway the shutterbutton which focuses but also calculates the exposure (so you now have a wrong exposure, and no good composition).

So you want to recompose. After recomposing pressing the shutter halfways gives you a new focuslock and exposure.

But you don't want this new focuslock (and exposure) ...

So the only way out is: focuslock on *, lock the focus, oriented the camera to the right exposure object, press the shutter halfways giving you the right exposure and then recompose for the perfect picture (good focus, good exposure, good composition)
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  #18  
Old September 14th, 2006, 07:00 AM
Tim Armes Tim Armes is offline
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Hi,

What you're suggesting is not the only way out. Use manual mode.
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  #19  
Old September 14th, 2006, 07:20 AM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
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Using default settings, in that situation couldn't you also first AE-lock with *, then focus lock with half shutter press (I'm assuming we're in one shot here), then recompose and shoot? In fact, isn't that precisely what AE lock is for in the first place?

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Old October 19th, 2006, 05:59 AM
John_Schwaller John_Schwaller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nill Toulme
Using default settings, in that situation couldn't you also first AE-lock with *, then focus lock with half shutter press (I'm assuming we're in one shot here), then recompose and shoot? In fact, isn't that precisely what AE lock is for in the first place?

Nill
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Nil, you bring up a good point. In one-shot mode, I believe you can, in some way, do all the AE/AF things that can be done in CF4=1. However, the steps and/or sequence may be different depending on if you are in evaluative or one of the other metering modes.

Having thought over night on your question, I think the main advantage that comes with the non-CF4=0 modes is one of consistency. In CF4=1, 1/2 shutter press will always lock the shutter....and releasing it will always unlock it to allow it to allow it to meter the scene. '*' will initiate AF and lock it in in 0ne-shot. If in AI Servo, you can have a "pseudo one-shot" by releasing '*' or Servo tracking by holding it down. CF4=3, changes the AE to happen always at time shot is taken.

The nice think about the "pseudo one-shot" mode is that, with FTM lenses, you have manual moe available with no switch changes when releasing the '*' button. One think I just noticed (based on a post elsewhere) is that when you turn the lens switch to MF, the indications of the AF modes (One-shot, AI Focus, AI Servo) disappears on the top LCD (on 5D). I assume this would also happen on a MF-only lens. I am not sure what this means, exactly. Hopefully someone can pipe in here.

John
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Old October 19th, 2006, 09:31 AM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Schwaller
...One think I just noticed (based on a post elsewhere) is that when you turn the lens switch to MF, the indications of the AF modes (One-shot, AI Focus, AI Servo) disappears on the top LCD (on 5D). I assume this would also happen on a MF-only lens. I am not sure what this means, exactly. Hopefully someone can pipe in here.
They disappear because they're not applicable. There's no AF when the lens is in MF mode, so it would be confusing at best to display AF modes in that situation.

Similarly, as I recall, the +/- exposure comp display disappears when you're in M exposure mode. (Or else it becomes effectively a match-needle meter display...)

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  #22  
Old October 19th, 2006, 11:39 AM
John_Schwaller John_Schwaller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nill Toulme
They disappear because they're not applicable. There's no AF when the lens is in MF mode, so it would be confusing at best to display AF modes in that situation.

Similarly, as I recall, the +/- exposure comp display disappears when you're in M exposure mode. (Or else it becomes effectively a match-needle meter display...)

Nill
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Of course...funny how the obvious often eludes us....Thanks, Nill.

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  #23  
Old October 24th, 2006, 01:56 PM
Ron Morse Ron Morse is offline
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As some who have seen my focus problems in the 20D section know, I have had a problem with focus since I bought my 20D a couple of years ago. I have read about peoples thoughts on CF4 for quite some time but never tried it. When my camera gets back from Canon next week ( hopefully ) I intend to give it a try with CF4/3. A question that I have about it is, which metering mode should I use. I always use the center focus point and centerweighted average metering.
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  #24  
Old October 24th, 2006, 03:01 PM
Don Cohen Don Cohen is offline
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Hi Ron,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Morse
As some who have seen my focus problems in the 20D section know, I have had a problem with focus since I bought my 20D a couple of years ago. I have read about peoples thoughts on CF4 for quite some time but never tried it. When my camera gets back from Canon next week ( hopefully ) I intend to give it a try with CF4/3. A question that I have about it is, which metering mode should I use. I always use the center focus point and centerweighted average metering.
My personal preference is to shoot in Manual Exposure mode whenever possible. Having spot metering on the 1-series cameras makes this perhaps a bit quicker and easier, but it is still quite do-able on the 20D. In fact, my wife now shoots this way, uses CF4=3, and I think it has helped her photography quite a bit. The only time this is not practical is if the sun is rapidly coming in/out from clouds, or if your subject is walking in and out of shade.

I'm sure you'll get some other perspectives and recommendations, but this works well for me, and the type of shooting I do.

Best,
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Old November 17th, 2006, 03:15 PM
Steve Fines Steve Fines is offline
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As others have stated, for me it really depends on the subject.

While lots of people debate it, something to remember is that it is just a setting on the camera. Easily reversible. Just try it and see if it works for you.

For BIF, fast moving wildlife and my kids having the * focus gets me more keepers with better compositional freedom.

For landscapes it really doesn't matter.
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  #26  
Old November 20th, 2006, 10:28 PM
Jeff Mims Jeff Mims is offline
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I'm a little late to this discussion, however...
I like using CF#4, with the * set to AF. I started doing that this year, shooting sports. First in softball, then later football. I would usually set to single point AF, and this would allow me to "lock on" to a particulary player. While, I wouldn't say I've mastered sports photography, it certainly helped me get better shots. After doing it for several months, it's such a habit, I don't even think about it.
Of course, it's nice to know I can always change it if I don't like it.
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  #27  
Old November 21st, 2006, 06:43 AM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
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Ron I almost always use evaluative Av shooting sports and have good luck with it in highly variable light. Note that with CF4-1, the AE reading is locked with the half shutter press, so that, for example, multiple-frame bursts all get the same exposure. With CF4-3, each frame gets its own reading. I prefer the latter as I am often tracking players moving in and out of sun and shadow.

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  #28  
Old January 6th, 2007, 12:47 PM
Bob Krueger Bob Krueger is offline
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Well, I am way late to this discussion, but there are two things that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread; maybe I just missed them.

For me, another advantage of using the back buttons for focus rather than the shutter release half-press is that I can flip back and forth instantly from using my registered (center) focus point and all 45 focus points (auto selection). I have set up my 1DMkII so that the X button (the leftmost one) uses the registered center focus point and the * button uses what I have set with the :::: button (the rightmost one), which is set to auto-selection from all 45 points. Since I shoot motorsports, I am almost always in AI Servo mode, tracking a moving race car. Most of the time, center focus point is my preferred mode, but sometimes I want to set the servo focus to track the front of the lead car but let it drift a bit out of the center of the frame while still tracking it as the primary focus point to better balance the frame. I can press the * button while the front of the lead car is in the center of the frame and press the shutter button after the front of that car front is no longer in the center but still within the focusing oval. Does this actually work? Well, it does in theory at least. I think that, along with some frames of the same car(s) focused with the X button, it gives me a wider selection of varied "in-focus points" from a burst of shots from which to select my "keepers" if nothing else. I can always crop to make my focal point not be in the center of the frame, but if I can accomplish the same thing without giving up pixels, that's even better.

Another, perhaps small, advantage of using the back buttons to focus is that it takes the sometimes overactive shutter button on the vertical grip of the 1DMkII totally out of the picture without the need to return the camera to Canon for button calibration or to worry about firing off a bunch of unintended shots. The secondary shutter button on my camera is a bit on the hyper side, but it isn't an issue for me as long as I use the back buttons for focus.

In addition to setting CF18 to setting 2 so that I have to hold down the back buttons to track focus, I also use CF4 at 3 for the same reasons Nill does. The cars I photograph are constantly moving through varied lighting conditions during a single burst of frames.

It does take a while to get used to focussing this way, however. I can completely sympathize with the person who said he fired off unfocused frames while in this mode. I did that more than I would like to admit when I first switched to this method of pre-focussing my pictures. In the end, for me at least, the thumb training learning curve was worth it.
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  #29  
Old January 6th, 2007, 02:18 PM
Nill Toulme Nill Toulme is offline
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Very good point Bob. Jonathan Wienke has an article on his website describing exactly how to do this (as I recall it takes several steps including setting another CF in addition to CF4), but I've lost the link to it. On the original 1-series it wasn't quite as useful because you had to put AFPS on the * button and center point on the X button, but on the Mark II's you can do it either way.

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  #30  
Old January 6th, 2007, 03:13 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Bob & Nil do you have hand reference to the steps needed for this.

Also any idea if the 1DII and or the 5D programs the same?

Asher
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