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  #1  
Old April 3rd, 2017, 11:26 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Default Sony to build new 100/150 MP MF sensors in 2018

Sony published a new Sony sensor roadmap. And it contains first info about their new generation 100MP and 150MP medium Format sensors:

1) New 100MP 44x33mm Medium format Back Illuminated sensor would be announced in 2018 (for the kind of cameras like the Fuji GFX and X1D)
2) New 150MP 55x41mm Medium format Back Illuminated sensor would be announced in 2018 (for the kind of cameras like the Phase One 100XF and Hasselblad H6D).

One should not expect the replacement for the Fuji GFX and X1D or IQ3100 and H6D-100c to be available in 2018, since it will take some time to develop the cameras once the sensors are available. Maybe they would be presented at Photokina 2018?
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  #2  
Old April 3rd, 2017, 11:48 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Jerome,

Once again thanks for bringing us up to date. Given the high quality of the full frame 35mm sensor offerings that are in Sony and Nikon cameras, and the wider apertures available at reasonable prices, there's not a great argument for the wonderful but far more costly Fuji GFX at 50MP. However at 100 MP, it really seems a great advantage for landscape work or high end superresolution prints of luxury watches and the like.

But aren't we also likely to get offered a Sony A7RIII and matching Sony A99III and Nikon with 100 MP too?

With the faster synch speed of the 35mm cameras, the Fuji is not overwhelmingly better, it seems.

Asher
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  #3  
Old April 3rd, 2017, 01:51 PM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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As usual, things are a little bit more complicated than they seem at first sight.

First: the Fuji GFX sync speed. It is poor when using the focal plane shutter indeed. But what most reviews do not realise is that the Fuji GFX can use Hasselblad HC lenses and use their focal plane shutter, with a sync speed of 1/1000s.

Second: price. One has to compare the price of complete system. High resolution 24x36 (kleinbild...) systems can only compete when one uses very good lenses and these are not always cheaper than the native ones for the Fuji GFX and X1D. These will also be a limitation for the (hypothetical) A7RIII.

Last: the real issue is that 100 MP starts to push the enveloppe of what can be done with photography, digital or film. Lenses can only do so much. For tridimensional subjects, there is a compromise between depth of field and diffraction which limits practical useful resolution at roughly these values. Sure, we can do better in some limited cases like gigapans or Richard Learoyd extraordinary portraits on Ilfochrome. But in practical photography, there is a limit.

So we should actually rejoice: the next generation MF, at worse the one after it, will reach the pinacle of practical resolution (just like 8"x10" reached the pinacle of practical resolution in analog technology before it). Assuming you want to print wall-sized pictures and look at them close, of course.
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  #4  
Old April 3rd, 2017, 04:11 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Jerome,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
As usual, things are a little bit more complicated than they seem at first sight.

First: the Fuji GFX sync speed. It is poor when using the focal plane shutter indeed. But what most reviews do not realise is that the Fuji GFX can use Hasselblad HC lenses and use their focal plane shutter . . .
Between-the-lens shutter?

Quote:
. . . with a sync speed of 1/1000s.
Best regards,

Doug
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  #5  
Old April 3rd, 2017, 09:52 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
As usual, things are a little bit more complicated than they seem at first sight.

First: the Fuji GFX sync speed. It is poor when using the focal plane shutter indeed. But what most reviews do not realise is that the Fuji GFX can use Hasselblad HC lenses and use their focal plane shutter, with a sync speed of 1/1000s.
Jerome,

I care a lot about synch speed. But my studio has dim light and modeling lights.

Well, for the GFX, that synch speed is now given as 1/800 Sec. Plenty fast for me but then one loses the superb spot on focus of the Fuji GFX system with the Hasselblad/Fuji HC lenses as they work only in manual mode on the GFX. For product, that works perfectly. One could use a gaggle of Fuji flashes in high speed synch, but only in the studio as the power of the lighting is severely compromised. Still for my dim studio bg lighting, even the limited native flash synch of the camera would be fine.

What is remarkable is that in the short time the camera had been out, there are offerings of adapters for Pentax 645 and 6x7 lenses, Olympus, Pentacon, Leica R and M lenses and of course Canon.

Very tempting is a sliding 4x5 back with +/- 20 mm shift horizontally! This allows use of one's interesting LF lenses!

So this is the Sony A7R of MF!

Asher
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  #6  
Old April 3rd, 2017, 09:58 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
Second: price. One has to compare the price of complete system. High resolution 24x36 (kleinbild...) systems can only compete when one uses very good lenses and these are not always cheaper than the native ones for the Fuji GFX and X1D. These will also be a limitation for the (hypothetical) A7RIII.

Last: the real issue is that 100 MP starts to push the enveloppe of what can be done with photography, digital or film. Lenses can only do so much. For tridimensional subjects, there is a compromise between depth of field and diffraction which limits practical useful resolution at roughly these values. Sure, we can do better in some limited cases like gigapans or Richard Learoyd extraordinary portraits on Ilfochrome. But in practical photography, there is a limit.

So we should actually rejoice: the next generation MF, at worse the one after it, will reach the pinacle of practical resolution (just like 8"x10" reached the pinacle of practical resolution in analog technology before it). Assuming you want to print wall-sized pictures and look at them close, of course.
Yes, Jerome, cost is a big issue, for me especially as I am overspent to an insane degree making sculptures! Steel is expensive!

I am thinking that I could still go for the the A7RII as my next camera workhorse, but perhaps I could sell off enough gear to buy this very well thought out GFX camera! One only goes round once in this life, LOL!

I read in these tests, that the GFX is a wonderful walk around handheld shooter that gives perfect exposures and out of the camera gorgeous color and sharp images, pretty well, all the time at twice the reciprocal of the ISO as shutter speed and most of the time at 1/4 of that!

Asher
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  #7  
Old April 4th, 2017, 12:24 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
Between-the-lens shutter?
I meant to write that, when HC lenses are mounted via the adapter, their built-in central shutter is used.
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Old April 4th, 2017, 12:26 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Yes, Jerome, cost is a big issue, for me especially as I am overspent to an insane degree making sculptures! Steel is expensive!

I am thinking that I could still go for the the A7RII as my next camera workhorse, but perhaps I could sell off enough gear to buy this very well thought out GFX camera!
The price of the A7RII was just reduced by Sony. I would expect the next model to come out soon and the A7RII to be discounted.
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  #9  
Old April 4th, 2017, 12:41 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
The price of the A7RII was just reduced by Sony. I would expect the next model to come out soon and the A7RII to be discounted.
I hope you are correct in your predictions. I have been hoping for just that, Jerome!

The A7RII with a 50mm 1.8 Zeiss lens performs as well, (in my hands, at least), as an 80 MP Phase One back with an 80 mm Mamiya lens, except of course that if one gets close, one can discover more individual hair strands with the costlier camera. But the pictures, the "look", is more striking and engaging with the Sony.

Doubtless, someone else, (more expert than I in Capture One post-processing), could put the Sony in its place. But to me, the Sony punches way above its weight. So I can only imagine what a Sony A7RIII with 80-100MP might deliver to 72" high pictures that I could print!

Asher
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  #10  
Old April 4th, 2017, 02:09 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
I hope you are correct in your predictions. I have been hoping for just that, Jerome!
The "prediction" is actually in the open: http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-...600-euro-less/



Quote:
The A7RII with a 50mm 1.8 Zeiss lens performs as well, (in my hands, at least), as an 80 MP Phase One back with an 80 mm Mamiya lens, except of course that if one gets close, one can discover more individual hair strands with the costlier camera. But the pictures, the "look", is more striking and engaging with the Sony.

Doubtless, someone else, (more expert than I in Capture One post-processing), could put the Sony in its place. But to me, the Sony punches way above its weight. So I can only imagine what a Sony A7RIII with 80-100MP might deliver to 72" high pictures that I could print!
Higher resolution will only be seen on larger prints, so yes: on smaller sprints the A7RII performs as well as the IQ180. The "look", on the other hand, is mainly a function of lens design and color palette. Maybe you simply prefer what Sony chose for color palette.
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  #11  
Old April 4th, 2017, 04:15 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome Marot View Post
The "prediction" is actually in the open: http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-...600-euro-less/





Higher resolution will only be seen on larger prints, so yes: on smaller sprints the A7RII performs as well as the IQ180. The "look", on the other hand, is mainly a function of lens design and color palette. Maybe you simply prefer what Sony chose for color palette.
My prints here from the two cameras are 30" X 40".

Asher
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  #12  
Old April 4th, 2017, 09:35 AM
Jerome Marot Jerome Marot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
My prints here from the two cameras are 30" X 40".
That would give about 50 MP at 200 dpi, so the A7Rii is adequate.
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