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  #1  
Old January 7th, 2017, 10:33 AM
Michael_Stones Michael_Stones is offline
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Default On Ice: December -> January

Northern winter begins in December and ends in February. By then, most landscapes are unbroken white with waterscapes hardened to polished steel. These three photos show the beginning of these changes when the temperatures fluctuate from either side of freezing point (December) to consistently below freezing in the new calendar year. They are part of a larger study of variations of ice in natural settings. Cheers, Mike

'Ice Candles'
Candlelike ice surrounded branchlets of a tree; ice pellets on the lake.


'Ice Pans'
A sunset view of a river scene. The separate blocks of ice, termed pans, joined together during a continued freeze.


'Ice Island'
An island of ice covered with snow. Depending on the temperature, the island either floated freely or became frozen into the surrounding surface.

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  #2  
Old January 7th, 2017, 02:33 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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'Ice Island'

An island of ice covered with snow. Depending on the temperature, the island either floated freely or became frozen into the surrounding surface.






Mike,

This last picture of an isolated island of ice reminds me of the current growth of a 50 mile chasm between the Antarctic ice pack and a developing "calf" of a newborn island of floating ice the size of a state like Maine.

Global warming is definitely changing our geography. When this giant geographical chunk finally melts the oceans will rise by some 4"! This smaller section is only good for a cm or so! Read more here.

Asher
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  #3  
Old January 7th, 2017, 07:31 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post

This last picture of an isolated island of ice reminds me of the current growth of a 50 mile chasm between the Antarctic ice pack and a developing "calf" of a newborn island of floating ice the size of a state like Maine.

Global warming is definitely changing our geography. When this giant geographical chunk finally melts the oceans will rise by some 4"!
You describe it as "floating". If that is wholly so, then when it melts this should not raise the sea level at all.

You may want to float an ice cube in a tumbler of water and then top off the glass so the water level is just at the rim. Then see what happens as the ice cube melts.

Basically, the volume of the entire ice cube, as water (that is, if it were to melt), is identical to the volume of the portion of the cube as ice that was beneath the surface of the water with the cube floating free. Thus, as the whole cube melts, the resulting water just exactly fills the space that was originally occupied by the "beneath the surface" portion if the ice cube.

Now the melting of ice packs that are supported by terra firma is another matter altogether,

Best regards,

Doug
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  #4  
Old January 7th, 2017, 11:33 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Off course, Doug!

But the practical matter is that the ice controls the flow of glacier water!

That is partly where the rise comes from! The other part can be seen when you float a piece of ice in a full glass of sea water. When it melts it will overflow!

Asher
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Last edited by Asher Kelman; January 8th, 2017 at 03:33 AM.
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  #5  
Old January 8th, 2017, 01:06 AM
Michael_Stones Michael_Stones is offline
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Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Off course, [Michael] Doug!

But the practical matter is that the ice controls the flow of glacier water!

That is partly where the rise comes from! The other part can be seen when you float a piece of ice in a full glass of seawater. When it melts it will overflow!

Asher
I'll leave you two guys to argue about physics :). Here's a view of the ice island floating freely.


The context is as follows. Further to the left is a solid mass of snow covered ice on a rivulet from a wetland to Lake Superior. The Lake remained unfrozen and is toward the right. Because waves flowed from the Lake along the rivulet, this action dislodged the island from the mass. The island then floated toward the Lake when the waves subsided. I took this photograph a few days before the previously posted image, which was taken after the surrounding waters began to freeze. Cheers, Mike
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  #6  
Old January 8th, 2017, 06:11 AM
Peter Dexter Peter Dexter is offline
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Looks so very cold!
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  #7  
Old January 8th, 2017, 09:23 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
The other part can be seen when you float a piece of ice in a full glass of sea water. When it melts it will overflow!
You are of course correct.

If we assume a typical value for the density of sea water, and assume that when we add a volume of fresh water to a volume of sea water the total new volume is the sum of the two original volumes (nearly true when the overall volume of sea water is large compared to the volume of the fresh water), then when a body of ice floating in a body of sea water melts, it affects the level of the sea water in the same amount as if we had added to it an amount of fresh water approximately equal to 2.22% of the volume of the ice (or 2.43% of the volume of water in the ice).

Apologies to all for my error.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #8  
Old January 8th, 2017, 10:06 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Stones View Post
I'll leave you two guys to argue about physics :). Here's a view of the ice island floating freely.


The context is as follows. Further to the left is a solid mass of snow covered ice on a rivulet from a wetland to Lake Superior. The Lake remained unfrozen and is toward the right. Because waves flowed from the Lake along the rivulet, this action dislodged the island from the mass. The island then floated toward the Lake when the waves subsided. I took this photograph a few days before the previously posted image, which was taken after the surrounding waters began to freeze. Cheers, Mike
A very dramatic picture, Mike! That partly white angular black rock on the right pouts our attention to the ice island in the center of your picture....... Especially beautiful in that it shows pure nature with no buildings or boats or towers to indicate the presence of man. Hopefully there are no creatures stranded there!

This is indeed what is happening to eat apart the massive "land" mass that is essentially frozen pure glacier water. Not the warming air, but currents of water, as in your photograph in Lake Superior, are the cause of the major melting of the ice. In the Antarctic, it is deep warm currents that eat at the base of the frozen ice which then is pushed free to be "calved".

Asher
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  #9  
Old January 8th, 2017, 10:12 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
Hi, Asher,



You are of course correct.

If we assume a typical value for the density of sea water, and assume that when we add a volume of fresh water to a volume of sea water the total new volume is the sum of the two original volumes (nearly true when the overall volume of sea water is large compared to the volume of the fresh water), then when a body of ice floating in a body of sea water melts, it affects the level of the sea water in the same amount as if we had added to it an amount of fresh water approximately equal to 2.22% of the volume of the ice (or 2.43% of the volume of water in the ice).

Apologies to all for my error.
Thanks Doug and @ The Donald Trump fact-free universe!

You better all spread the word or rise of sea water will be called a "hoax" by the "climate deniers" too!

Asher
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  #10  
Old January 8th, 2017, 11:54 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Thanks Doug and @ The Donald Trump fact-free universe!

You better all spread the word or rise of sea water will be called a "hoax" by the "climate deniers" too!
The fact that the Mean Sea Level (measured with respect to an accepted geoidal datum) is rising has been, until just lately, a matter of observed fact.
I did recently write to a relative, an ardent Republican, that I understood his evident glee at the election of Donald Trump as president of the United States - he now no longer had to be concerned by the projection that his home, in central Florida, would be underwater by the year 2050 (CE).
But, all political "joking" aside, the phenomena that contribute to the observed rise in sea level are very complex, and I have very limited understanding of that entire matter.

My observation above was related only to a certain well-isolated phenomenon, to which you alluded: the increase in the level of a vessel of sea water as a body of ice, floating freely in it, melts.

I do not in the slightest pretend to understand all the phenomena resulting from the detachment of a gigantic ice "island" from the Antarctic ice mass. I have not read any of the literature that speaks to the projected rise in MSL that is expected to occur, over time, from all those phenomena, or from the further demise of that ice mass in general. (I thank you for a link to what I expect will be such a discussion - I hope to have an opportunity to read it soon.)

I do urge the captains of steamships not to steam into this ice island. But as a matter of preparations, I recommend the Sousa adaptation and transcription of "Nearer, my God, to thee" for small band. My adaptation and transcription of that is available for any who might need it.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #11  
Old January 8th, 2017, 12:42 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Doug,

You might enjoy this scientific introduction, here🐝!

Asher
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  #12  
Old January 8th, 2017, 12:48 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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'Ice Candles'
Candlelike ice surrounded branchlets of a tree; ice pellets on the lake.
[CENTER]


Mike,

Is this your invented term, "Ice Candles" or is this just new to me? Anyway, I have never noticed such shapes before. At first I thought they were hollowed bamboo-like plants and I wondered how they came to be translucent. What a fabulously artistic penemenon of nature! Not only are your "ice candles" a good finfmd, but the composition, with the inclusion of tiny spots of floating ice on the right, is well balanced and rises to worth of saving and sharing.

Being able to pick out such unique works of nature's art is a special gift or self-trained skill. How does one ev n notice such small artifacts? ............. But then being able to successfully discover how to have the framing work so well is something I really appreciate.

Kudos!

Asher
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  #13  
Old January 8th, 2017, 12:55 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Doug,

You might enjoy this scientific introduction, here
Yes, I have (just today) seen this, albeit in a different setting:

http://nsidc.org/news/newsroom/20050...oatingice.html

Thanks.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #14  
Old January 8th, 2017, 05:07 PM
Michael_Stones Michael_Stones is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter Dexter View Post
Looks so very cold!
How cold it feels depends on the temperature, humidity, wind and how you dress, Peter. This iPhone photo taken yesterday shows me wearing a down-filled jacket, lined cargo pants, lined deerskin gloves, leather hat and calf-high boots. Aside from high quality workman's boots, it's an inexpensive outfit practical for cold winters. Although the temperature adjusted for windchill fell below -22 F (-30 C), it felt as warm as toast except for moments of facial frost-nip when walking directly into the wind - I should have worn a Balaclava to avoid that. The other photos in the thread were taken in temperatures warmer than 0 F (-18 C) after adjustment for wind chill. It didn't feel cold even after removal of gloves to take a series of shots. Cheers, Mike.

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  #15  
Old January 8th, 2017, 06:32 PM
Michael_Stones Michael_Stones is offline
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Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
'Ice Candles'
Candlelike ice surrounded branchlets of a tree; ice pellets on the lake.
[CENTER]


Mike,

Is this your invented term, "Ice Candles" or is this just new to me? Anyway, I have never noticed such shapes before. At first I thought they were hollowed bamboo-like plants and I wondered how they came to be translucent. What a fabulously artistic penemenon of nature! Not only are your "ice candles" a good finfmd, but the composition, with the inclusion of tiny spots of floating ice on the right, is well balanced and rises to worth of saving and sharing.

Being able to pick out such unique works of nature's art is a special gift or self-trained skill. How does one ev n notice such small artifacts? ............. But then being able to successfully discover how to have the framing work so well is something I really appreciate.

Kudos!

Asher
Hi Asher, an 'ice candle' is something people around here make as a decoration - a holder made of ice with a candle inside. I borrowed the term to describe the structure in the photo but later found that 'ice candle', 'ice tower' and 'ice vase' are alternate terms for 'ice spike', which in the technical literature refers to an ice structure that projects upwards from the surface of a body of frozen water. According to references in Wikipedia, ice spikes came to scientific attention in the 1920s, are rare in nature, but physicists more recently began to study their development in laboratory settings.

Good old Wikipedia also refers to 'candle ice' as an alternate term for 'rotten ice', which is contaminated (weakened) ice that develops in columns perpendicular to the surface of a lake. Because of the proximity of branches to the ice structures in the photo, I'd assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that their development was by downward dripping rather than upward growth. I'll go back tomorrow to take a further look that, if they are still standing, might clarify their origin.

It's thanks to our dog that the ice candles came to my attention. The settings for two of her daily walks are by the river and by the lake. Because we tramp the same routes repeatedly, small changes from whatever source become noticeable. This photo was not easy to take because the bank of the lakeshore was steep and slippy with few footholds. The presence of the tree and floating ice that balance the photo were fortunate indeed. Cheers, Mike
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  #16  
Old January 9th, 2017, 10:26 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Mike,

I like that you have brought us to pay attention to the greatest artist on the planet, Mother Nature, herself!


Here is a striking video of the greatest iceberg ever being made. Just ten miles to go before a State of Delaware sized iceberg is calved!

Asher
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Last edited by Asher Kelman; January 14th, 2017 at 10:34 AM.
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  #17  
Old January 9th, 2017, 07:29 PM
Michael_Stones Michael_Stones is offline
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Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Mike,

I like that you have brought us to pay attention to the greatest artist on the planet, Mother Nature, herself!


[url=https://weather.com/science/nature/video/giant-iceberg-will-break-off-in-antarctica]Here is a striking video of the greatest iceberg ever being made. Just ten miles to go before a State of Delaware sized iceberg is calved!

Asher
Very true, Asher. Mother But Nature's a whimsical creature that bores quickly and kills off her creations before their time to make space for those not yet created. I went back to the photographic setting today to see whether the Ice Island and Ice Candles had survived -28 F temperatures, high wind, and some inches of snow. The Ice Candles were no more, crushed or buried under snow, with the displaced Ice Island only distinguishable by those who remember it fondly.

A Fondly Remembered Former Ice Island



So what did Mother Nature create to replace them? A beautiful new snowbank specially made for OPFI viewers to admire. But note that she's getting bored with it already, as evidenced by foreground cracks so early in its life.

A Snowbank Made Just for You


Mother Nature loves her snowbank now, but will she love it tomorrow? Let Amy Winehouse answer that.

Cheers, Mike.

Last edited by Michael_Stones; January 10th, 2017 at 01:32 AM.
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  #18  
Old January 10th, 2017, 03:10 AM
Andy brown Andy brown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Stones;176559
[CENTER
[/CENTER]
Ooh, I like this one.
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  #19  
Old January 10th, 2017, 11:15 AM
Michael_Stones Michael_Stones is offline
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Ooh, I like this one.
Glad you like it, Andy. Good choice, I like it, too. However, the photo below is the one I like best of those shown here. It's also the one nobody commented upon, meaning that it understandably resonated just for me.


You had to be there to get the symbolism it evoked. Because the river that flowed gently the day before now looked like ice-choked devastation, nature had clearly fought a battle royal there, with pastoral harmony decimated by a vicious attack from winter. The setting sun that cast a sword blade of light across the ice reinforced this mental image. Moreover, I'd guess that 99% of winter images in the world show ice and fluffy snow as white. This picture paints them black. I like images that depart from the norm. Cheers, Mike.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 12:00 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Glad you like it, Andy. Good choice, I like it, too. However, the photo below is the one I like best of those shown here. It's also the one nobody commented upon, meaning that it understandably resonated just for me.


You had to be there to get the symbolism it evoked. Because the river that flowed gently the day before now looked like ice-choked devastation, nature had clearly fought a battle royal there, with pastoral harmony decimated by a vicious attack from winter. The setting sun that cast a sword blade of light across the ice reinforced this mental image. Moreover, I'd guess that 99% of winter images in the world show ice and fluffy snow as white. This picture paints them black. I like images that depart from the norm. Cheers, Mike.

Mike,

Only "Nothing" is black! The regions between stars or black as there is no matter, i.e., "nothing" there!

Everything else is conditionally a level of grey, (+/- a hue), depending on where one sets bright white and the amount of incident illumination.

But you, of course know that!

I was impressed with this unusual picture but chose to comment first on the most unusual ice features as I have never heard of these oddities like ice tubes!

Asher
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  #21  
Old January 10th, 2017, 12:09 PM
Michael_Stones Michael_Stones is offline
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Mike,

Only "Nothing" is black! The regions between stars or black as there is no matter, i.e., "nothing" there!

Everything else is conditionally a level of grey, (+/- a hue), depending on where one sets bright white and the amount of incident illumination.

But you, of course know that!

I was impressed with this unusual picture but chose to comment first on the most unusual ice features as I have never heard of these oddities like ice tubes!

Asher
Of course, you're right Asher. I was using white versus black figuratively to denote a relative trend. I got a bit too tied up with the resonant imagery (Tolkien's Mordor, perhaps) and exaggerated the colour extremity accordingly. Glad you were impressed by the picture. Cheers, Mike.
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Old January 14th, 2017, 10:19 AM
Michael_Stones Michael_Stones is offline
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As indicated at the beginning of this thread, the photos here are from a larger study of ice/snow formations in natural settings. The previous set illustrated complex ice structures by the shoreline. The following set examines simpler units by the water's edge or thrown up on the shore.

Sand and Ice on Lake Superior



Ice Crystals



A Large Ice Crystal


Cheers, Mike
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  #23  
Old January 16th, 2017, 10:36 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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As indicated at the beginning of this thread, the photos here are from a larger study of ice/snow formations in natural settings. The previous set illustrated complex ice structures by the shoreline. .....


A Large Ice Crystal




Mike,

Did you notice that there is also a view from inside a dark cave to a well-lit mountainside?

Asher
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  #24  
Old January 16th, 2017, 05:22 PM
Michael_Stones Michael_Stones is offline
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A Large Ice Crystal




Mike,

Did you notice that there is also a view from inside a dark cave to a well-lit mountainside?

Asher
Missed that one, Asher. What I did see were three dogs; or maybe a dog, fox and owl; or some combination thereof. Cheers, Mike.
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  #25  
Old January 31st, 2017, 06:21 PM
Michael_Stones Michael_Stones is offline
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Given that the period in the title for the series was December -> January and today marks the end of January, I'll post a final photo. It's a view of the Sleeping Giant peninsula taken from Chippewa Park, Thunder Bay. If you look at the peninsula's shape, you'll understand why aboriginal legend named it the Sleeping Giant. You can read about the legend here.

The featured person and dog are favourite companions.

Cheers, Mike
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