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  #1  
Old February 15th, 2018, 01:16 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Default Black & white? Black & white!

OPFers who know me for long do know that color is my world and shooting B&W is not my cup of tea…
I even have refused in the past exhibition because I were asked to produce B&W only images…
Asher, in private message have often told me that I was stubborn (and not only about B&W!).

Well some time ago for a long lasting client, I were asked, after the shooting to prepare for a brochure some B&W portrait of models (male and female)…
Commercially, I could not refuse, I was so "angry" that I was surprising myself replying "OK, but that's gonna me MY B&W", my way to pp them…
He was so happy by the results… !

Here's one
Natural light, no reflectors, just her, sun and I (and the 645Z)

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  #2  
Old February 15th, 2018, 05:55 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
OPFers who know me for long do know that color is my world and shooting B&W is not my cup of tea…
I even have refused in the past exhibition because I were asked to produce B&W only images…
Asher, in private message have often told me that I was stubborn (and not only about B&W!).

Well some time ago for a long lasting client, I were asked, after the shooting to prepare for a brochure some B&W portrait of models (male and female)…
Commercially, I could not refuse, I was so "angry" that I was surprising myself replying "OK, but that's gonna me MY B&W", my way to pp them…
He was so happy by the results… !

Here's one
Natural light, no reflectors, just her, sun and I (and the 645Z)


You have three assets thaycwork together here: a superbly beautiful collaborator in the model, she's relaxed and fun, a natural. Then you use one of the very best camera with probably the best dynamic range. Thirdly you have tens of thousands of eyes polishing your judgement as what works I. A save.

Simply put: Bravo!

Just keep practicing re-mapping colors to grey scale ranges that show up your composition the best for you and your mission!

Asher
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  #3  
Old February 15th, 2018, 10:42 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Thanks Asher, I will!

However:
Quote:
You have three assets thaycwork together here: a superbly beautiful collaborator in the model, she's relaxed and fun, a natural. Then you use one of the very best camera with probably the best dynamic range. Thirdly you have tens of thousands of eyes polishing your judgement as what works I.
My mum gave me only a pair… so I must have missed something… Ah! I wish I could better understand English!
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  #4  
Old February 15th, 2018, 10:51 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Her name is Ornella Verrecchia, and of course she's a pro !
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  #5  
Old February 15th, 2018, 11:11 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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I hope you will ski on this trail a little more!

If you can find such treasures, make it a regular habit! See how perfect shape and shading does not need color. We are able to imagine a complete living and delightful person without any color as we do this from shapes, shading and an ability to sort just based on our perception of 3 D monochrome form!

Color just adds shorthand clues for ripeness to eat or mate!

Asher
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  #6  
Old February 15th, 2018, 11:12 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
Her name is Ornella Verrecchia, and of course she's a pro !
She cannot be more perfect, elegant or noble looking, and all that without color.

You did a magnifent job, Nicolas.

Asher
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  #7  
Old February 15th, 2018, 11:31 PM
Wolfgang Plattner Wolfgang Plattner is offline
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Hi

I'm sorry, but for me there is too much brightness, somehow no "humanity" in this portrait.
The overall impression is "metallic", I can get no connection to the person.
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  #8  
Old February 15th, 2018, 11:35 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Amazing, Wolfgang that we see things so differently. I did not get the same reactions from Nicolas' image. Yes it is very simplified!










Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang Plattner View Post
Hi

I'm sorry, but for me there is too much brightness, somehow no "humanity" in this portrait.
The overall impression is "metallic", I can get no connection to the person.



That is so interesting. You are used to certain presentations and this doesn't do it

Perhaps I can fill in the blanks from being on the slopes longer!

Asher
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  #9  
Old February 16th, 2018, 09:00 AM
fahim mohammed fahim mohammed is offline
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Hello Nicolas.

That the client liked the image is what matters in the commercial world.

On the other hand, I like the simplicity in this image. It has elegance.

But then again, I am a biased viewer. I like to expose far to the right!
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  #10  
Old February 16th, 2018, 12:16 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Hello Faim!
Good to hear from you!
AFAIK, you've been off for some time…
I hope you're doing well :-)

Back to your comment, thanks! but even in commercial shots, I try to give my best, I want and need to be proud of my work…
There are no biased viewers, there are viewers!
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  #11  
Old February 16th, 2018, 12:40 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang Plattner View Post
Hi

I'm sorry, but for me there is too much brightness, somehow no "humanity" in this portrait.
The overall impression is "metallic", I can get no connection to the person.
Wolfgang,
In a way, I like that you do not like, not because it's you but because 100% of kudos would be really too much!
It's just not possible that one image pleases everyone.
When it came to me the necessity to create in black and white, I did not want to imitate anyone, not Renoir, nor Ansel Adams, nor Robert Doineau nor Raymond Depardon or any other known photographer. Perhaps because I am not able of it, but more certainly because I wanted the image thus created to be a faithful reflection of my feelings, of the atmosphere that I wanted to convey.
What I wanted, was to go with the opposite of my color images, keeping very few details, contrasty but misty, very very soft. Like if I were dreaming, some ethereal atmosphere.

To please all is not my cup of tea, although I have an obligation to please my customers.

In reality, the fact you don’t like brings a great value to the positive comments.
Sorry you do not like, that’s life!
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  #12  
Old February 16th, 2018, 01:11 PM
Antonio Correia Antonio Correia is offline
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Nicolas... I am sure you can do better than this.

Simple and elegant indeed...
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  #13  
Old February 16th, 2018, 07:00 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
OPFers who know me for long do know that color is my world and shooting B&W is not my cup of tea…
I even have refused in the past exhibition because I were asked to produce B&W only images…
Asher, in private message have often told me that I was stubborn (and not only about B&W!).

Well some time ago for a long lasting client, I were asked, after the shooting to prepare for a brochure some B&W portrait of models (male and female)…
Commercially, I could not refuse, I was so "angry" that I was surprising myself replying "OK, but that's gonna me MY B&W", my way to pp them…
He was so happy by the results… !

Here's one
Natural light, no reflectors, just her, sun and I (and the 645Z)




I stand by my earlier opinion. I'm steadfast in my feeling that this is well done. It is not nearly well composed, it simply is! It is not nearly in focus, it is and it's also important to the success of the picture. The very dark blacks and the brightest whites are perfectly delivered without the greys that are not shown being actually "missing" as they are simply not used in this presentation and style.



The style still allows my brain to build he shape and character as a real person. It would be a sculpture but that would only then be in white marble. It is the opposites of extreme finely drawn that makes a unique statement.



Of course we have just had our appetites whetted.

I am not surprised it doesn't garnish 100% approval, but that is the value of our group here. We are honest.

If we don't like what we see, we have enough standing and credit with each other to smash so!

That, to me is as good an achievement as a statement of excellence!

We must have dissent or we are just in a mutual admiration society!

Asher
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  #14  
Old February 16th, 2018, 11:27 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
It is the opposites of extreme finely drawn that makes a unique statement.

I am not surprised it doesn't garnish 100% approval, but that is the value of our group here. We are honest.

If we don't like what we see, we have enough standing and credit with each other to smash so!

That, to me is as good an achievement as a statement of excellence!

We must have dissent or we are just in a mutual admiration society!

Asher
Thank you Asher, you wrote with better words than mine my feelings here…
Quote:
In a way, I like that you do not like, not because it's you but because 100% of kudos would be really too much!
It's just not possible that one image pleases everyone.
When it came to me the necessity to create in black and white, I did not want to imitate anyone, not Renoir, nor Ansel Adams, nor Robert Doineau nor Raymond Depardon or any other known photographer. Perhaps because I am not able of it, but more certainly because I wanted the image thus created to be a faithful reflection of my feelings, of the atmosphere that I wanted to convey.
What I wanted, was to go with the opposite of my color images, keeping very few details, contrasty but misty, very very soft. Like if I were dreaming, some ethereal atmosphere.

To please all is not my cup of tea, although I have an obligation to please my customers.

In reality, the fact you don’t like brings a great value to the positive comments.
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  #15  
Old February 17th, 2018, 12:23 AM
Wolfgang Plattner Wolfgang Plattner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
Thank you Asher, you wrote with better words than mine my feelings here…
that is the point.
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  #16  
Old February 17th, 2018, 08:00 AM
charlotte thompson charlotte thompson is offline
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Nicolas

The only one to please " is self" I adore bandw work myself. This portrait is elegant and a true catch!
lovelovelove it!

Charlotte-
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  #17  
Old February 18th, 2018, 10:26 AM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlotte thompson View Post
Nicolas

The only one to please " is self" I adore bandw work myself. This portrait is elegant and a true catch!
lovelovelove it!

Charlotte-
Thank you Charlotte!

Then, have a bit more of the story…



But who is she writing to?

To him maybe…
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Last edited by Nicolas Claris; February 19th, 2018 at 12:08 AM. Reason: typo
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  #18  
Old February 18th, 2018, 12:54 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Nicolas,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
OPFers who know me for long do know that color is my world and shooting B&W is not my cup of tea…
I even have refused in the past exhibition because I were asked to produce B&W only images…
And I support your intuition in that.

That is not at all to say that the B&W images you show in this thread are not very nice.

Still, perhaps a boxer should not of his own volition offer to fight with one hand tied behind his back.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #19  
Old February 18th, 2018, 01:00 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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There are at least four reasons to produce monochrome photographs:

• One's photographic chain can only do that. (Happened a lot in the 1920s!)

• The client's medium can only support that. (Many great works in newspapers and magazines, for example, from that consideration.)

• The monochrome image best delivers the artist's vision. (Many wonderful works produced, over the years, and today, for that reason.)

• It's a fad. (Which, thankfully, waxes and wanes.)

Best regards,

Doug
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  #20  
Old February 18th, 2018, 06:37 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
There are at least four reasons to produce monochrome photographs:

• One's photographic chain can only do that. (Happened a lot in the 1920s!)

• The client's medium can only support that. (Many great works in newspapers and magazines, for example, from that consideration.)

• The monochrome image best delivers the artist's vision. (Many wonderful works produced, over the years, and today, for that reason.)

• It's a fad. (Which, thankfully, waxes and wanes.)

Doug,

The Thematic spine of your options is that it is only in the exception that photography should be in monochrome!

That is a problem as it seems to define taste!

Asher
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  #21  
Old February 19th, 2018, 12:07 AM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
The Thematic spine of your options is that it is only in the exception that photography should be in monochrome!
I fully agree with this statement!
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  #22  
Old February 19th, 2018, 12:11 AM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
Hi, Nicolas,



And I support your intuition in that.

That is not at all to say that the B&W images you show in this thread are not very nice.

Still, perhaps a boxer should not of his own volition offer to fight with one hand tied behind his back.

Best regards,

Doug
Thank you Doug for your support
But sometimes one has to jump onto the "ring"…
Then one should feel it as a challenge, not as a punishment…
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  #23  
Old February 19th, 2018, 03:19 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
Hi, Nicolas,



And I support your intuition in that.

That is not at all to say that the B&W images you show in this thread are not very nice.

Still, perhaps a boxer should not of his own volition offer to fight with one hand tied behind his back.

Best regards,

Doug
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
Thank you Doug for your support
But sometimes one has to jump onto the "ring"…
Then one should feel it as a challenge, not as a punishment…
These are unfortunate and mistaken statements with limited vision, insight and a dash of prejudice!

Make the picture as only you wish. There are no rules except it either might evoke the feelings you hope in others or not. All we can do is put it out there and hope.

Do not suggest to anyone to promote or discourage a particular style of expression! This is the opposite of having an artist's creatively open mind! Saying that color is the normally preferred mode is a serious mistake and very limiting. Such statements can disrupt creative instinct in others.

Just believe in your own intuition and create using greyscale and color to the extent relevant to your wishes at that moment in time. It's like suggestions as to whether or not to center a rose, but to place it in the interesection of the "positions of thirds". All such rules are narrow positions and limiting and merely sufficient for making art by committee!

Asher
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  #24  
Old February 19th, 2018, 04:54 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
These are unfortunate and mistaken statements with limited vision, insight and a dash of prejudice!

Make the picture as only you wish. There are no rules except it either might evoke the feelings you hope in others or not. All we can do is put it out there and hope.

Do not suggest to anyone to promote or discourage a particular style of expression!
I suggested no such thing. This seems to me to be a straw man. Methinks someone is overly sensitive. And please do not presume to tell me what to suggest.

Doug
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  #25  
Old February 19th, 2018, 09:52 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
These are unfortunate and mistaken statements with limited vision, insight and a dash of prejudice!

Make the picture as only you wish. There are no rules except it either might evoke the feelings you hope in others or not. All we can do is put it out there and hope.

Do not suggest to anyone to promote or discourage a particular style of expression! This is the opposite of having an artist's creatively open mind! Saying that color is the normally preferred mode is a serious mistake and very limiting. Such statements can disrupt creative instinct in others.

Just believe in your own intuition and create using greyscale and color to the extent relevant to your wishes at that moment in time. It's like suggestions as to whether or not to center a rose, but to place it in the interesection of the "positions of thirds". All such rules are narrow positions and limiting and merely sufficient for making art by committee!

Asher
Asher
Once again my English is not good enough to understand all subtleties, however I don't think that Doug did shout out to everyone to follow HIS statements…
AFAIK Doug did only wrote his own thoughts, that BTW I do agree with.
But this is for our own.

And yes
Quote:
All such rules are narrow positions and limiting and merely sufficient for making art by committee!
is the best statement overall.
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  #26  
Old February 19th, 2018, 10:50 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Claris View Post
Asher
Once again my English is not good enough to understand all subtleties, however I don't think that Doug did shout out to everyone to follow HIS statements…
AFAIK Doug did only wrote his own thoughts, that BTW I do agree with.
But this is for our own.

And yes is the best statement overall.
Thanks so we can open a new bottle of. Ordeaux!

Salut mea amis.

@ Doug: Let's only declare how art might be done, but not how art should rather not be be done!

Asher
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  #27  
Old February 19th, 2018, 11:19 PM
Nicolas Claris Nicolas Claris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
@ Doug: Let's only declare how art might be done, but not how art should rather not be be done!

Asher
Both statements are false and contradictory with your writing!
Art is not a religion.
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  #28  
Old February 20th, 2018, 08:16 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
@ Doug: Let's only declare how art might be done, but not how art should rather not be be done!
Hard to disagree with that.

But I fear you never took in what I originally wrote here, other than perhaps through a prism of your own (unnecessary) worries.

Best regards,

Doug
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