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  #1  
Old January 10th, 2017, 02:10 PM
Michael Nagel Michael Nagel is offline
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Default Shadow-Geometry

Detail of a building for the maintenance of tramcars.






Best regards,
Michael
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  #2  
Old January 10th, 2017, 04:08 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Nagel View Post
Detail of a building for the maintenance of tramcars.






Best regards,
Michael

I like this a lot, especially as I have come to value steel cables as both an architectural flourish in design and also for the convenience as a support element. One is uniquely able to provide stability against all sorts of disrupting forces and yet do it with such little interference with the space.

Asher
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  #3  
Old January 11th, 2017, 12:50 AM
Cem_Usakligil Cem_Usakligil is offline
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Excellent shot Michael!
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  #4  
Old January 11th, 2017, 06:57 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
I like this a lot, especially as I have come to value steel cables as both an architectural flourish in design and also for the convenience as a support element. One is uniquely able to provide stability against all sorts of disrupting forces and yet do it with such little interference with the space.
Indeed.

I am interested in the "fitting" seen in the cable. The first thought is that it is a turnbuckle, as you know used to adjust out the "slack" in a cable (and/or to put it under a desired degree of tension, depending on whether you take the isotonic or isometric view of the system). But its form is unfamiliar to me. Of course it might just be the style of such thing as made in Germany (or wherever). But if it is a turnbuckle, I am surprised by the apparent shortness of the threaded members, which would seem to give it an unusually-small range of adjustment (and they seem overly "fat" as well).

In a different context, I might think it to be a form of insulator use in cables under tension where the flow of electrical current must be blocked. Again, I am not familiar with any such of exactly that design (although I am aware of a similar structure used in certain tension insulators), but the thought has to cross my mind as I ponder.

In any case, Michael, a wonderful image.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #5  
Old January 11th, 2017, 07:12 AM
Jarmo Juntunen Jarmo Juntunen is offline
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Nice touch, Michael! Got any pictures of the trams?
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  #6  
Old January 11th, 2017, 11:03 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Kerr View Post
Hi, Asher,



Indeed.

I am interested in the "fitting" seen in the cable. The first thought is that it is a turnbuckle, as you know used to adjust out the "slack" in a cable (and/or to put it under a desired degree of tension, depending on whether you take the isotonic or isometric view of the system). But its form is unfamiliar to me. Of course it might just be the style of such thing as made in Germany (or wherever). But if it is a turnbuckle, I am surprised by the apparent shortness of the threaded members, which would seem to give it an unusually-small range of adjustment (and they seem overly "fat" as well).

In a different context, I might think it to be a form of insulator use in cables under tension where the flow of electrical current must be blocked. Again, I am not familiar with any such of exactly that design (although I am aware of a similar structure used in certain tension insulators), but the thought has to cross my mind as I ponder.
Doug,

The cable is made of twisted steel wires and therefore is for tensile strength, not for electricity. Also the is a clevis to the right and a cottle pin. It does not need major adjustment as that can be on the other end of the cable. If there is a short threaded rod to the left side of the fitting, then this could serve for slight final adjustment of tension and measurement with a cable tensiometer applied for final tension adjustment, but conveniently, near to the ground.

I find these cables to be very handsome and make such sense as they use so much less material and can be altered according to changing needs.

Asher
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Last edited by Asher Kelman; January 11th, 2017 at 03:42 PM.
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  #7  
Old January 11th, 2017, 11:24 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Nagel View Post
Detail of a building for the maintenance of tramcars.Best regards,



Michael,

Even though you have shared that this is some view of a building, no such identity is obvious, even with that knowledge.

What's interesting is that we enjoy this by reason of the patterns and shadows, not because we recognize the identity of what's there. Only by starting from the cable fittings as reference, could we begin to even estimate the scale of the structures. I myself put aside such attempts as irrelevant, as what is interesting is the composition itself made of repeats and intersecting lines and shadows.

Arabic art does this when it uses well crafted repeats to engage us. Here, however, you have that together with areas of shadows and then crossing cables, so that we have a sense of 3 D space but there is mystery. It could be any size and so many different things that it becomes an abstraction in space.

This is so different from your pictures inside the Munich Metro where we have form, color, repeats and interplay, but we ARE always fully orientated as to where the scene is placed. We are related to what we see. By contrast, what we see here is more abstract and lacks such identity. We could be looking at the corner of a box or parts next to some wall in a warehouse.

But in making this so indefinite, you allow us to meander with our imagination.

Thanks,

Asher
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  #8  
Old January 11th, 2017, 11:46 AM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Asher,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
Doug,

The cable is made of twisted steel wires and therefore is not for tensile strength . . .
I don't know why that follows - many guy wires, for utility poles, for example, are of stranded steel.

Quote:
not for electricity. Also the is a clevis to the right and a cottle [cotter. I guess] pin.
You young fellers have better eyes than I!

Quote:
It does not need major adjustment as that can be on the other end of the cable. If there is a short threaded rod to the left side of the fitting, then this could serve for slight final adjustment of tension and measurement with a cable tensiometer applied for final tension adjustment, but conveniently, near to the ground.

I find these cables to be very handsome and make such sense as they use so much less material and can be altered according to changing needs.
Thanks for your observations.

Best regards,

Doug
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  #9  
Old January 11th, 2017, 12:09 PM
Michael Nagel Michael Nagel is offline
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Asher, Cem, Doug, Jarmo - Thanks!

To answer the question about the wires: The wires seen are part of the support structure where the live wires are attached through insulators. I have to upload another picture that helps to explain.

Right now I only have a grazing view of the one of the modern trams:




Best regards,
Michael
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I do not call myself an artist, I just try to capture what I see.
If you need many words to describe what your picture means, it doesn't speak enough for itself.
my photos on flickr - here is the portion posted in OPF.
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  #10  
Old January 11th, 2017, 12:41 PM
Michael Nagel Michael Nagel is offline
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This might help to better see the wire construction:




Best regards,
Michael
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I do not call myself an artist, I just try to capture what I see.
If you need many words to describe what your picture means, it doesn't speak enough for itself.
my photos on flickr - here is the portion posted in OPF.
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  #11  
Old January 11th, 2017, 01:07 PM
Doug Kerr Doug Kerr is offline
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Hi, Michael,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Nagel View Post
This might help to better see the wire construction:


Thank you so much.

Yes, that is most likely an insulator (I had not earlier realized that that cable was part of a trolley wire suspension system.

The type of insulator I have in mind comprises a racetrack-shaped "loop" of (typically) fiberglass tape (many turns) embedded in resin, and looped over a clevis-like fitting at each end. That may be what we are seeing here.

Here is an example of one type (clevises not shown):


Best regards,

Doug
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  #12  
Old January 12th, 2017, 10:53 AM
Michael Ritter Michael Ritter is offline
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I really love that first pic, especially in B&W. Well done Michael!
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  #13  
Old January 12th, 2017, 11:55 AM
Michael Nagel Michael Nagel is offline
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Michael,

Thanks.

Here is a wider view of the interior:






Best regards,
Michael
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I do not call myself an artist, I just try to capture what I see.
If you need many words to describe what your picture means, it doesn't speak enough for itself.
my photos on flickr - here is the portion posted in OPF.
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  #14  
Old January 12th, 2017, 02:59 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Nagel View Post
This might help to better see the wire construction:




Best regards,
Michael
Michael,

I think we like it since it's not very obtrusive and also it is familiar in design to a spider's Webb, which has fascinated all of us since childhood!

Yes, it's a very interesting pattern! I am impressed how they build in ability to make adjustments and how the loads are spread. I imagine that any one of the supporting cables could fail and not effect the function of the support.

I would love to know the ideas behind this well-proven design.

Asher
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  #15  
Old January 12th, 2017, 03:08 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Nagel View Post
Michael,

Thanks.

Here is a wider view of the interior:




Michael,

This is a return to your very clear architectural photography. There's no need to wonder what scale things are at or or we are looking at. This is great practical construction with large skylights making work there so much more pleasant.

The steel girders in the shadows are rusty. This makes me think that I fuss too much about such steel rusting away and failing. I can see that my concern may not be necessary as rust doesn't seem to be a practical worry here, or for sure it would be painted.

Asher
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  #16  
Old January 12th, 2017, 03:15 PM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Nagel View Post
Asher, Cem, Doug, Jarmo - Thanks!

To answer the question about the wires: The wires seen are part of the support structure where the live wires are attached through insulators. I have to upload another picture that helps to explain.

Right now I only have a grazing view of the one of the modern trams:



Michael,

I love these very rectilinear "moving mirrors", giving a deep dark reflection of the street as it passes by. The large areas of glass might make it easier to clean off the kind of graffiti which so marr Los Angeles trains. Or perhaps, German tram yards have better security or a more civil community!

I see these teams as moving sculpture blocks and so handsome and lively additions to a city landscape.

Asher
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  #17  
Old January 20th, 2017, 01:25 PM
Michael Nagel Michael Nagel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher Kelman View Post
I love these very rectilinear "moving mirrors", giving a deep dark reflection of the street as it passes by. The large areas of glass might make it easier to clean off the kind of graffiti which so marr Los Angeles trains. Or perhaps, German tram yards have better security or a more civil community!

I see these teams as moving sculpture blocks and so handsome and lively additions to a city landscape.
Graffiti on tram trains is not so much of an issue here - this is more of an issue for the S-Bahn (commuter trains).
I cannot tell if this is the result of better guarded trains or a convention followed by the graffiti crowd.

Moving mirrors - is it this what you meant?






Best regards,
Michael
__________________
I do not call myself an artist, I just try to capture what I see.
If you need many words to describe what your picture means, it doesn't speak enough for itself.
my photos on flickr - here is the portion posted in OPF.
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  #18  
Old January 21st, 2017, 09:47 AM
Asher Kelman Asher Kelman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Nagel View Post
Graffiti on tram trains is not so much of an issue here - this is more of an issue for the S-Bahn (commuter trains).
I cannot tell if this is the result of better guarded trains or a convention followed by the graffiti crowd.

Moving mirrors - is it this what you meant?




Exactly, Michael!

This is a moving artwork, intentional or not! The constant feedback to us of our urban world in this way is invigorating to me. The smooth outlines of the trains helps this effect.

Asher
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