Have lost all patience with Canon!

[Anthony Arkadia]

I was looking for a mint 1ds Mark II and could not find one, so i purchased a Brand New one. Well the sensor is so dirty i have spots on every image, EVEN @ F4. Where are they putting these cameras together, in a basement? Now i have to repackage everything up and send it back, and i will continue to do so until i get a damn clean camera. I use to not let this stuff bother me, just clean it myself, but i have finally had it with Canon. I will go through 500 of these if i have too. This is the 5th new camera i have purchased from Canon in the last 18 months, and every one of them looked like they have already shot and changed lenses 500 times in a desert.
Sorry for the VENT.....

 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I was looking for a mint 1ds Mark II and could not find one, so i purchased a Brand New one. Well the sensor is so dirty i have spots on every image, EVEN @ F4. Where are they putting these cameras together, in a basement? Now i have to repackage everything up and send it back, and i will continue to do so until i get a damn clean camera. I use to not let this stuff bother me, just clean it myself, but i have finally had it with Canon. I will go through 500 of these if i have too.

Make sure to specify that you want the camera wrapped in clean vacuum, and then never, I repeat NEVER, put a lens on it, because that will break the vacuum and dirt can get in!

Now seriously, I of course don't know how dirty the sensor on your replacement really was, but do understand that a spec of dust that is only 7.2 micron (0.00003937 inch) or smaller will affect a cluster of up to 4 output pixels. Have you checked with the meteorological service how the 'fine-dust' content of your local air is, and was it safe to mount lenses to begin with? How large do you think lint from clothing is? How clean is the inside of a camera bag? Do you ever clean the rear cap of your lenses, and have you replaced the older ones with new ones that don't shave off as much material !?

I do sympathize with you, and understand the ordeal you have gone (are going) through, but let's stay realistic. We live/breathe in a dust/pollen ridden environment. Avoiding it is nearly impossible, dealing with it is the practical way ahead (and there are some things one can do to improve the chance of success).

Bart

 

[Paul Bestwick]

get over it dude. If you had four recent purchases exhibiting the same issue then you should have been expecting it. Dust is part of digital........at least for the moment. Go out & buy yourself an Artic Butterfly.

Cheers,

Paul

 

[Doug Kerr]

Wow! This is great!

Wow! This is great! One used to have to go to dpr to get this kind of dialog.

 

[Paul Bestwick]

Hey Anthony,

here is a prime example. I just shot a job with this blob in every image. It was so big when I removed my lens in the studio this morning to clean the sensor I could see it sitting right there !!!
Anyhow, image "B" shows the sensor after a quick clean up with the Artic Butterfly. Also worth noting is that my 1DSMK II is 2 1/2 years old & never been cleaned via another method. I certainly am no sensor clean expert but this seems to work well for me.
( I would be interested to hear if others here can see deficiencies in my current method....thanks)
(Doug, I am puzzled as to your method regarding the disparaging remarks re DP review. I am at a loss to see the remark as a meaningful contribution in relation to Anthonys' problem)
Cheers,

Paul

 

[MArk Le]

dust magnet

I understand why you are disappointed but the dust is indeed a pain and you better get used to it.
I use a 1Ds for almost 4 years now and at first I was obsessed with the dust but now I really couldn't care less LOL
I mean.. just use a blower once in a while and keep going.

But I agree that Canon should clean the sensor before packing the camera. not gonna change anything anyway because 3 minutes later you'll get your own dust anyway...

 

[John Sheehy]

But I agree that Canon should clean the sensor before packing the camera. not gonna change anything anyway because 3 minutes later you'll get your own dust anyway...

I think the real problem is that lubricants are turning the sensor into a virtual fly-paper. Keeping the sensor free of lubricants keeps dust from sticking to it (though it probably doesn't help as much with things like pollen, which have their own stickiness. The things that stick because of the lubricants, however, can be quite large; things which would otherwise be knocked away eventually by the shutter blade turbulence.

 

[Diane Fields]

I assume that sending the cameras back doesn't mean they are going to Canon but to the vendor you bought from for replacement--so will damage your relationship with your vendor, not Canon. I will assume that the vendor will not continue to replace the camera for this reason--and in the end it won't affect Canon in any way that I can see.

At least IMO it is not worth driving one's self crazy to feel as though you are going to straighten out a corporation--there are other things in the world I'd rather get angry about.

Diane

 

[Ken Tanaka]

Make sure to specify that you want the camera wrapped in clean vacuum, and then never, I repeat NEVER, put a lens on it, because that will break the vacuum and dirt can get in!

....

Bart

Well actually it would be much more effective to have the camera in a pressurized bubble. A vacuum enclosure would suck dust into any tiny hole. A positive pressure enclosure would repel dust from holes. This is the principal used for biohazard and chemical hazard suits.

Gee, I hope the Visible Dust folks don't get "wind" of this. In addition to the "Arctic Butterfly" we could see the "Tropical Tub Toy" with the "UltraKleen Air Pump".

Dust is life. Life is dust.

 

[Anthony Arkadia]

This sensor is so dirty it is pitiful, like i said it was like i shot in the desert for a week with no lens on and no body cover on the camera. And as for some of the funny ones say who get ever it, people like you make me laugh the most, why, because when it happens to you, you cry the loudest.
I have been cleaning sensors before most of you on this board were even born. When i pay 7,000.00 for a camera i do not need to spend another $100.00 on Sensor Swabs to clean the sensor, the camera is brand new!
Also i am sure that you are all aware that cleaning your sensor yourself voids your warranty. So for argument sake let's say some other poor slob bought this camera and does not know how to clean his sensor, or does not want to VOID his warranty, so he has to send it to Canon, pay $150.00, and be without his new camera while Canon cleans up a mess that should not have been there to begin with.
When building electronic boards and other instruments, most companies require a certain air quality, Canon no longer uses these guide lines, they use too, but no longer do to cut back on cost.
I am not crying about a dust bunnies on the sensor, they blow off, i am crying about the residue field that has been molded on the sensor, i have done about 50 rocket blows and still show well over 100 black spots @ F4.

DUST BLOWS OFF OF THE SENSOR WITH A ROCKET BLOWER............ THIS IS RESIDUE STUCK ON THE SENSOR AND DOES NOT BLOW OFF!​

 

[Anthony Arkadia]

Now that's a great idea, now i can swirl chamber grease all over the sensor as well! I see you cleaned many of sensors.​

get over it dude. If you had four recent purchases exhibiting the same issue then you should have been expecting it. Dust is part of digital........at least for the moment. Go out & buy yourself an Artic Butterfly.

Cheers,

Paul

 

[Kathy Rappaport]

No Charge to clean it

When I went in person to the CSC in Irvine, they told me they do not charge for sensor cleaning and that I can come in as often as needed. I even asked if that were true when my 5D goes out of warranty and they said yes. They could not guarantee that they could do that while I wait. It' 80 miles for me to drive there, but, I have other business I can do in the area if I can get same day service.

 

[Michael Fontana]

When I went in person to the CSC in Irvine, they told me they do not charge for sensor cleaning and that I can come in as often as needed. I even asked if that were true when my 5D goes out of warranty and they said yes. They could not guarantee that they could do that while I wait. It' 80 miles for me to drive there, but, I have other business I can do in the area if I can get same day service.

wow,
here my last cleaning costed about $ 200!!
The first one is for free, but all following ones are to pay.

 

[Paul Bestwick]

Hey Anthony,

interesting, you sure seem upset. Given that you are quoting me, (indirectly ) let me answer by saying this. I have used & owned Canon digital cameras since the intoduction of the D30. Going back a few years I was annoyed at the dust issue but got over it pretty quickly. I am not crying the loudest, in fact I am totally not phased. Digital is a dream come true, I can put up with what I consider to be inconsequential deficiencies. The fact is, oily residue whilst it may exist, I can't see the degradation to my images. To my eye, & more importantly, in the opinion of my clients the images are great. When I look at images I have made using film they don't come close to the quality I am getting out of digital. Now there are those that would say I am not seeing the faults associated with my compromised sensor as I am not viewing with an expert eye. Well, that may be the case. I make my living out of creating images but I am not one of those guys that shoots brick walls or colour charts to determine quality, accuracy, sharpness, whatever. Not that I am not into quality, I have always owned & used top shelf gear. From Leicas & HAsselblads through to 1 series digital Canon units.
Give it a few years & these shortcomings will have been overcome. In the interim period, I am enjoying being a part of the early phase of digital developement......warts & all.
So thats it............loosen up man....enjoy.
I will finish by saying this. In the 4 years I worked at Canon in their photo service dept there was always a steady supply of customers coplaining about some trivial perceived fault. Mostly, it was user perception rather then equipment fault.
I can just imagine what it would be like there now since the advent of digital. What a PITA. Perfectly good images but if I stop down to F22 & do an auto levels adjustment it is going to look like crap.........now that is what make s me laugh the loudest.
No offence intended by the way, this is just my take on what I see & I am choosing to see the positive. I think my time at Canon opened my eyes & helped me to have a more balanced perspective.
Cheers,

Paul

 

[Anthony Arkadia]

Yes i am upset, my first mistake i see was voicing my opinion. I notice now why you seem so adamant about it though, your a Canon hero. Let me ask you this, do you know what it is like to have to Photoshop out over 100 spots on nearly 1000 images of Canon 1Ds MarkII raw files? Maybe your clients do not care, then for you that is great. My clients however care, i am taking fine jewelery shots, and at F4 i have about 100 spots on every image, they are not dust bunnies either, it is residue stuck on the sensor. Sure Canon will clean my sensor for free, hooray, but they will not pay for the shipping, and the $7,000.00 worth of insurance i have to add on too the shipping.
I have always cleaned my own sensors, it is no big deal! My point is this, now try to understand and keep an open mind, would you be happy paying $7,000.00 for a camera that has so much residue on the sensor that every images produced from the camera requires hours of PP in Photoshop?
Any how no sense in beating a dead horse, myself included, i have had it with this kind of quality control from Canon and will keep sending them back until i get one were i only have to use a dozen Sensor swabs and 1 box of Kimwipes to clean...

Hey Anthony,

interesting, you sure seem upset. Given that you are quoting me, (indirectly ) let me answer by saying this. I have used & owned Canon digital cameras since the intoduction of the D30. Going back a few years I was annoyed at the dust issue but got over it pretty quickly. I am not crying the loudest, in fact I am totally not phased. Digital is a dream come true, I can put up with what I consider to be inconsequential deficiencies. The fact is, oily residue whilst it may exist, I can't see the degradation to my images. To my eye, & more importantly, in the opinion of my clients the images are great. When I look at images I have made using film they don't come close to the quality I am getting out of digital. Now there are those that would say I am not seeing the faults associated with my compromised sensor as I am not viewing with an expert eye. Well, that may be the case. I make my living out of creating images but I am not one of those guys that shoots brick walls or colour charts to determine quality, accuracy, sharpness, whatever. Not that I am not into quality, I have always owned & used top shelf gear. From Leicas & HAsselblads through to 1 series digital Canon units.
Give it a few years & these shortcomings will have been overcome. In the interim period, I am enjoying being a part of the early phase of digital developement......warts & all.
So thats it............loosen up man....enjoy.
I will finish by saying this. In the 4 years I worked at Canon in their photo service dept there was always a steady supply of customers coplaining about some trivial perceived fault. Mostly, it was user perception rather then equipment fault.
I can just imagine what it would be like there now since the advent of digital. What a PITA. Perfectly good images but if I stop down to F22 & do an auto levels adjustment it is going to look like crap.........now that is what make s me laugh the loudest.
No offence intended by the way, this is just my take on what I see & I am choosing to see the positive. I think my time at Canon opened my eyes & helped me to have a more balanced perspective.
Cheers,

Paul

 

[Paul Bestwick]

Hey Anthony,

quality is important to me also. I am in the high dollar bracket in my industry & quality is mandatory. I thought I had communicated that. Why not look at the shots in my thread "latest magazine ad" & then make a similair degrading remark. I had an idea that this forum discouraged dispariging remarks so I am not sure where you are coming from. The phrase "get over it" is not meant to cause offence. How unfortunate that you would interperet it in such a negative manner.

Paul

 

[Anthony Arkadia]

get over it, hmmm jump over the camera? i do not see this kind of quality in your work, sorry, and goodbye, thread closed, forum closed. Just my 2 cents, i mean bucks worth.

 

[Paul Bestwick]

thats Ok Anthony, I don't expect everyone to like what I do. I am fairly specific in the type of work I undertake. My endeavour is in the field of emotion, I capture important events in peoples lives....weddings, children, family events.......to name a few. The detail in the bill you posted is not what my clients are looking for. Although I also do some nice work with flowers. Once again though, that type of fine detail is not what I am after & the majority of my image is soft & out of focus. It brings to mind a statement by Cartier Bresson where he derided the modern obsession with image sharpness. Not unlike what I was alluding to when I spoke of brick walls & colour charts.
"je n'ai pas l'obsession de la photo. Je suis obsede par ce que je vois, par la vie, par la realite."

just my 2 francs worth

Cheers,

Paul

 

[Jack Joseph Jr]

My my, didn't this thread get off course. Personally I think that quality cameras should come new without slop all over the sensors. But they don't. Three out of my last four Canon bodies had more than dust showing on the first shot.

I can clean a sensor with Pec Pads and Eclipse is about the time it takes for Anthony to write some of his larger posts (including uploading a picture of money).

At some jobs I change lenses in the field. That almost always leads to dirt issues. I clean them up when I get home. It's no big deal. Even if the cameras came spotlessly clean, like after Irvine returns them to me, they will still get dirty at within a week or so.

I just cannot see what all the fuss is about.

 

[Paul Bestwick]

I clean them up when I get home. It's no big deal. Even if the cameras came spotlessly clean, like after Irvine returns them to me, they will still get dirty at within a week or so.
I just cannot see what all the fuss is about.

Hey Jack,

which is precisely what my point was from the start. Personally, I have had a dust issue from day one of using my first digital camera about 5 years ago. So what am i gonna do ? Find a solution that satisfies my requirements. Nicolas pointed out to me that my sensor has an oily residue. Now I understand that would bother some camera operators but as for me......I can't see any degredation to my image so I choose not to let it be a issue. I have a method that allows me to capture images without dust, great , problem solved. I just don't see the value in whining about something so trivial........now the guy with the banding problem in the other thread, that is a different story. He has every right to be pissed to the max.
Here is my last thought. I am a professional photographer making my living from creating images. This is what I do everyday unlike many of the hobbie photographers that populate photo forums. I have worked extensively in the industry since 1990. Surely someone with a track record & presence in the industry is worth hearing. If I can't offer an opinion without the quality of the work I produce being denigrated then what is the point of participating at all.

Paul

 

[Jane Auburn]

You need to start taking pictures and stop sniffing your sensor. I hope never to sell you a camera. Folks like you are collectors, not photographers.

I was looking for a mint 1ds Mark II and could not find one, so i purchased a Brand New one. Well the sensor is so dirty i have spots on every image, EVEN @ F4. Where are they putting these cameras together, in a basement? Now i have to repackage everything up and send it back, and i will continue to do so until i get a damn clean camera. I use to not let this stuff bother me, just clean it myself, but i have finally had it with Canon. I will go through 500 of these if i have too. This is the 5th new camera i have purchased from Canon in the last 18 months, and every one of them looked like they have already shot and changed lenses 500 times in a desert.
Sorry for the VENT.....

 

[Daniel Harrison]

Wow! This is great! One used to have to go to dpr to get this kind of dialog.

Yes!
aint that the truth

post of the thread for sure, thanks Doug!

 

[MArk Le]

no you got it wrong

like I said I do understand why you are upset. That said, what you want us to do beside giving the best advice we can?

What I do now with the dust is this: I use the blower when I remember to do it, then I use a lot of PP and once a year or so I bring the camera to a private service in NYC (phototech) and they clean the sensor for 40 bucks or so. That's the best advice I can give since I do NOT want to deal with the cleaning kits and liquids or brush or lenspen or anything else by myself: just the blower and I let professionals dealing with it when needed.

Besides.. for that price why should I have to clean anything? It will cost less all considered and they'll do it much better than myself.

But in your case good you did to post the problem because it's a new camera and Canon should be more careful packing it.

This is a forum and we do support eachother ... and that's what happened in this thread as I see it. Come on, there is no need to get upset with us too .

 

[Paul Bestwick]

Mark, Jane, Jack, I am so glad you guys made a contribution. I mostly call it how I see it & the majority of the time I am out on a limb on my own. Unfortunately, in a situation like this, the original poster seems to take a non supporting view as a personal attack when the intention is nothing like that.
I know quite a few other pro photographers & I never.......never hear them mention a dust issue.
Jane was on the right track in her reference to collectors............camera club members, those that like to shoot charts etc. For those that made reference to Dp review, I fail to see how that is making a meaningful contribution at all. I would have thought that making a comment in that vein was exactly the mindset you would expect on a forum like that, so you have added cheap insult to denigrating remarks.
I am sure Asher is most impressed reading this.