• Please use real names.

    Greetings to all who have registered to OPF and those guests taking a look around. Please use real names. Registrations with fictitious names will not be processed. REAL NAMES ONLY will be processed

    Firstname Lastname

    Register

    We are a courteous and supportive community. No need to hide behind an alia. If you have a genuine need for privacy/secrecy then let me know!
  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

Request for help: a rock solid cataloging system for Mac that can equally handle external drives! Or Do I need a PC?

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Media Pro is wonderful if I only add about 1,000-5,000 files at actime and keep the total below 50,000.

ACDSee from 4 up to 6 for Mac is beautiful except it crashes frequently.

Does anyone just use the native Mac Photos for cataloguing with external drive being referenced and not imported first?

[I am in High Sierra and still identifying 32 BIt apps that need to be updated.]

I love that ACDSee can global pull all of May 2015 or all of 2019.

But it then crashes if there are 10,000 icons to be revised!

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
I have no idea how many photos can "Photos" manage, but the whole show is saved under "Photos Library.photoslibrary". You can put that file wherever you want. You can even have more than one "photolibrary".

Advanced note: the file is actually a "package". It looks like a file to the finder but is actually a directory with the individual pictures within. You can look within by using CTRL-click and "show package content".

If what you want is to have "Photos" manage external files without copying them to any library, the option is in the application's settings.
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
I have no idea, I don’t use any cataloguing system (although I know that it can be done with Lightroom with tags, dates and many other features).

Because any of my works, wether pro or personal has a specific purpose, the cataloguing is easy for me…

I use one specific LR catalog per each shoot.
Each catalog is named by the name of the shoot (in relation to the subject) i.e.:
- « SHOOT Lagoon SIXTY 5 La Rochelle »
Or
- « Shoot confinement COVID-19 »

Then all shoots together with their own Lightroom catalog are backed-up on 2 twin HDs (one home, one at the bank).
These HDs are catalogued with Diskcatalogmaker (https://diskcatalogmaker.com/en/) so I know each external HD I have to connect to my computer when I need to re edit a file.

I ask my client not to delete the file number when they rename the photos sent to them, so it is easy to find it again 20 years later…

Simple and efficient!
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I remember now coming across that software before and thinking how useful it could become! So thanks Nicolas for sharing your very practical solution!

I also go for walks and take pictures of steel Junk run over by trucks, road accidents, abandoned grand couches, fallen branches, men debating, (or perhaps planning a bank robbery), or couples kissing!

I have found a software that claims to recognize common objects so does auto key wording!

I would prefer that one doesn’t need to re import all the files and just reference them!

Now tell me what is your bank procedure? Once a week you take one drive to the bank and bring home the older one to update it?

Asher
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Now tell me what is your bank procedure? Once a week you take one drive to the bank and bring home the older one to update it?
Asher

All "Mirror" hard drives, except for the current one, sleep securely in the safe deposit box at the bank.
The others stay with me at the office.
The current mirror is stored at home until it's full. I bring it to the office for regular updating.
Below, the 1st number indicates the HD capacity, you can see that as time goes by, that their capacity is increasing ! Is it useful to add that all my work over 12 months is also backed up with Time Machine?

So I sleep well at night!

Screen Shot 2020-07-12 à 11.26.14.jpg
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Almost same goes while shooting on location, every night I make a copy of all SD cards (128 and 64 Gb) on my new Laptop (MacBookPro 2019) on internal 2Tb SSD capacity plus a backup on a 2TB external Samsung SSD (linked thru Thunderbolt connexion)
Fast and efficient!
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
"Mirror" might not be the right name, in fact it is the name of an external HD where the same folders and files are copied.
When it is full, it stays at the bank' safe until I need it to restore files in case it's twin "brother" fails… (that happened once).

When an external back-up drive together with its twin "mirror"n I switch back-ups of new files to a new set of HDs.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
"Mirror" might not be the right name, in fact it is the name of an external HD where the same folders and files are copied.
When it is full, it stays at the bank' safe until I need it to restore files in case it's twin "brother" fails… (that happened once).

When an external back-up drive together with its twin "mirror"n I switch back-ups of new files to a new set of HDs.
When an external back-up drive together with its twin "mirror" [are full] I switch back-ups of new files to a new set of HDs?

🤔
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
When an external back-up drive together with its twin "mirror" [are full] I switch back-ups of new files to a new set of HDs?

🤔
I have so many TB of files that one drive cannot be enough, see above the naming of these drives!
there are now 14 HDs totalling 24 Tb ! with 14 mirror HDs
These are manual back-ups and manua mirroring, no RAID system here.
I'm filling the 15th HD (a 4 Tb disk) today…
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
I am seriously wondering how long we will still be able to use our own storage and won't be forced to save whatever we have on a paid cloud.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I am seriously wondering how long we will still be able to use our own storage and won't be forced to save whatever we have on a paid cloud.
I was going to do exactly that with AWS. I had them deliver me a 40 TB suitcase. I spent two weeks trying to work with command line instructions on my Mac and in the end returned it! They only have a WYSIWYG interface for PC!

I am looking at another company, DBGalleries, that not only stores the images but also adds keywords, (using Google object recognition and geo coding). Trouble is I think they use AWS too and I can’t face that monstrous command line challenge using a Mac!

Asher
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
I would not trust any company to host my files.
I do have my own cloud system host on a 4 Tb HD at home with a lightning fast Internet connection, but that's so much easier to save my files on different HDs which stay unplugged the rest of their lives.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I just looked further at DB Galleries and they can have the system on ones own at home server! That would be great for hosting images in OPF if we wanted to do that.


Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
ACDSEE: in the meanwhile: GOOD NEWS!

1. overnight the program indexed my hard derived and now crashing is less frequent!

2. I discovered that merely doing search on the Mac for an image, say “1047“, all images with that number will be located by Apple’s “Spotlight” search engine.

Amazingly, ACDSee selecting any of the discovered “1047” photos brings up that picture full size in the ACDSee view window and then one can browse sequentially through all the other files in the files source folder. Very useful! I have accidentally rediscovered forgotten gems!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
However the dates listed by ACDSee for image, only has files indexed in old Media Pro catalogs!!!!! None from the attached hard drives!

Any ideas anyone?

Thanks,

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
I would not trust any company to host my files.

That is not the question. I am confident that you and the majority of professional photographers did not want to be forced into a subscription model either.

Services amount to a growing share of the computer industry revenue. The writing is on the wall: Apple, Microsoft, Google, Adobe, etc... future revenue is about the cloud. It is a win-win situation for them: not only can they have their customers pay per month, but they can analyse your data and sell the info to the highest advertiser and they make it increasingly difficult for a given user to leave their platform. It is a win-win-win deal for them. It is where the money is and the recession we are experiencing is only going to speed up things.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
That is not the question. I am confident that you and the majority of professional photographers did not want to be forced into a subscription model either.....

Jérôme,

You are absolutely correct. It’s a taxation system we have been trained to accept with the computer makers and not the most efficient programmers making us addicted to faster processors, larger files and a constant need to update equipment and software.

Making things gradually obsolete is an unwritten conspiracy between the various players.

I must commend the Ontario Canada company DBGalleries for having an option, (albeit almost exorbitant), of buying a license for one’s on-premise server for just $2,999!

They still charge 20% annually for updates and service!
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
That is not the question. I am confident that you and the majority of professional photographers did not want to be forced into a subscription model either.
Subscription is not a problem for me, I do with LR and PS at Adobe and they give me what I need in return. Comparing to the price I had to pay for the stand alone versions and their regular paying updates, I'm not sure to loose money…
If LR they change of policy (as did Phaseone (which I happily used for years) when the Pentax 645Z got on the market, I had to switch to another app to develop my raw files.
I did not loose money, I just spent time to learn how to use a competitor of C1…
As a matter of fact, if one have all is files stored on a cloud, the day that cloud vanish in the air (pun intended ;) ) one loose all his files!
I didn't check their contract but I'm pretty sure that they deny responsibility in case of loss…

Services amount to a growing share of the computer industry revenue. The writing is on the wall: Apple, Microsoft, Google, Adobe, etc... future revenue is about the cloud. It is a win-win situation for them: not only can they have their customers pay per month, but they can analyse your data and sell the info to the highest advertiser and they make it increasingly difficult for a given user to leave their platform. It is a win-win-win deal for them. It is where the money is and the recession we are experiencing is only going to speed up things.
That will not goes thru me, but I know I'm an old fellow and that the majority does not see where the problem is… (I know YOU do Jerome)
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
As to data going “poof” in the cloud, Nicolas, it’s so unlikely. Amazon has a backup locally and also in a different continent for serious work! It could go down locally but no data would be lost unless there was a “Stuxnet”-class virus attack!
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
As a matter of fact, if one have all is files stored on a cloud, the day that cloud vanish in the air (pun intended ;) ) one lose all his files!
I didn't check their contract but I'm pretty sure that they deny responsibility in case of loss…

History tells us that the real risk is that the cloud company goes bankrupt, is sold or decides to abandon that particular part of their business and that users have 2 weeks notice to download their files before they are deleted.

But "downloading the files" is not really an option for us photographers. We will probably still have the original files from the cameras. After all, the cameras save the files locally (e.g. on a memory card) and you and I keep that original data on a hard disk. We may also keep the final version of files we publish.

What we will lose in that case is the environnement around the files:
  • any cataloguing, this is the problem that Asher is asking about in this thread
  • the information about our edits: how we changed the image between the original data and the published data.
That latter info may be of considerable importance for us photographers, as we may be asked for a new version of the published data, but with slightly different edits. I'll take an example: I edited some pictures by adding grain before printing them. I normally adjust the size of the grain according to the size of the print, it is nicer in that way. If I am asked for a different size of print in the future, I need to come back to the old intermediate version.

At present these files are under Apple Aperture. I can keep that obsolete software running, because it works locally. If the software would require the cloud, I could not do that. Even with local copies, software dependent on the cloud will not work when the cloud is gone or when the manufacturer decides to end support.

The context here is Asher's question about Apple "Photos", which I am considering using myself (I inquired about cataloguing in another thread). I answered that this program keeps everything in a local file. That is true today. Apple can change that at any moment. I discovered yesterday to my surprise that they did that for another, unrelated, application.

That will not goes thru me

Then you will be out of business. They don't need to make an exception for you when they have 2 billions other customers.

Pardon me for being blunt, but I believe that this is really the situation. The world of photography has changed considerably in the past ten years. The business of professional photography as you are doing has become a niche and additionally one which does not bring much money. The computer business has no financial interest in serving that particular niche.

I don't know how to solve that particular problem but I think we should be aware of what awaits us.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Makes me think of the brilliant medium film, but then I know a fellow in San Francisco who brought his life’s photography to the photography retail store where he worked for safety.

That night a fire destroyed the place and everything with it!

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
As to data going “poof” in the cloud, Nicolas, it’s so unlikely. Amazon has a backup locally and also in a different continent for serious work! It could go down locally but no data would be lost unless there was a “Stuxnet”-class virus attack!

As I said, the real risk is not that the cloud will crash. The real risk is that it will stop to serve us as customers. This has happened regularly.

Another risk I forgot is the US government. It may sound far-fetched for us photographers, but the risk is not negligible. Consider photographers or businesses in Iran: they are prohibited to use the services of any US company. They are even prohibited access to the international finance system, they can't pay.

As I said: it is probably not a significant risk for you, Nicolas or me, but it may be for others. It certainly is a real risk for countries like China, as recent events have demonstrated.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Jérôme,

Any new ideas on better exploiting the local storage ability of Photos would be appreciated!

Asher
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Then you will be out of business. They don't need to make an exception for you when they have 2 billions other customers.

Pardon me for being blunt, but I believe that this is really the situation. The world of photography has changed considerably in the past ten years. The business of professional photography as you are doing has become a niche and additionally one which does not bring much money. The computer business has no financial interest in serving that particular niche.

I don't know how to solve that particular problem but I think we should be aware of what awaits us.

I don't get it…
Why out of business?
We're talking about cataloguing and making back-up of all original files…
Clients do not have access to these…

@Asher, with LR you can make virtual copies of any pic and have different stteings for each virtual copy. That is stored within the LR catalog…
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I don't get it…
Why out of business?
We're talking about cataloguing and making back-up of all original files…
Clients do not have access to these…

@Asher, with LR you can make virtual copies of any pic and have different stteings for each virtual copy. That is stored within the LR catalog…
Does LR have to import the files or just index them without copying?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I have no idea how many photos can "Photos" manage, but the whole show is saved under "Photos Library.photoslibrary". You can put that file wherever you want. You can even have more than one "photolibrary".

Advanced note: the file is actually a "package". It looks like a file to the finder but is actually a directory with the individual pictures within. You can look within by using CTRL-click and "show package content".

If what you want is to have "Photos" manage external files without copying them to any library, the option is in the application's settings.
I will check this out. Great information.

Thanks
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
I meant that if you don't want to use applications which saves your data to a cloud, you will not be able to run your business when applications will require cloud usage.
Then I'll definitely retire and go on vacation ;)
But I doubt that I 'won't find an app without this requirements…
 
Top