1st trial stitch

[nicolas claris]

Here we are…

Specially for Asher…

The arTec on tripod and RRS head. Tripod not moved, camera not moved either.
2 images shot horizontal shift -11 and + 11 on the arTec scale. A bit too much, one acn see dark corners (and NO this is not vignetting!)

Lens: Sinaron Digital HR 4.5/28 CEF
ƒ13 - 2sec - focus distance: 3 meters - 200 ISO

Nice local light: tungsten, halogen, sunset thru windows!

the 2 images side by side in C1 pro (DNG made with eXposure 6.1.1, great improvement in highlight recovery, DNG compliant with Adobe DNG profile… :-D

and stitched in PS CS4, (no stirch retouch)…

As we are here, what you see is the first part of our office, on foreground, behind the big Sony LCD monitor (not vertical! this is not a parralax issue, but Friday's people gone…) on the left, is Romain's video editing station, on background is Sebastien's place (our web designer/webmaster)

 

[nicolas claris]

The same scene shot 2 hours earlier from a little more above, with the 1Ds3 and Canon L 14 mm…

 

[John Angulat]

Hi Nicolas,
Great image, but I'll leave the critiques to those more qualified than me.

One observation though...your office is much too neat and orderly!

 

[Asher Kelman]

Yes, Nicolas, your office is too neat!

Thanks for the example. Did you mean horizontal swing or shift?

Asher

 

[nicolas claris]

One observation though...your office is much too neat and orderly!

Hi John
LoL! believe me, not my fault ! (Marine's…)

 

[nicolas claris]

Yes, Nicolas, your office is too neat!

Thanks for the example. Did you mean horizontal swing or shift?

Asher

Asher you've been there before! you even used the place where Romain's editing station stands…

Well seen, I meant horizontal shift…
Will correct the original pot for those not reading all… BTW I'll also add the lens (Sinaron Digital HR 4.5/28 CEF)

 

[nicolas claris]

Hi Nicolas,
Great image, but I'll leave the critiques to those more qualified than me.

Hi John
Thanks, but honestly I don't think that this is a great image, it's only an exercise, a step in my learning curve of the arTec.
So simple BTW! but I am a completely self mad guy, never went to any photography shool and left highschool to early (with a good reason that was to cross the Atlantic Ocean with my best friend, from Cannes to Carribeans…) to know anything about math and physic sciences…
I feel like it's a big lack, but too late! I have to compensate by test and trials.
Everything I do is based on the feeling and real life experience, so I need to practice before my next yacht shoot where I'll try the arTec (next Tuesday)…
This thread is about the 1st trial for stitching, not about creating a nice image. There are many issues I can already see, but not about the shift ability of the camera, this is so precise that the stitch went easy like a charm!
This is not a creative phase but technical…

Honestly

 

[Asher Kelman]

Hi nicolas,

Do you happen to have a horizontal stage on your RRS tripod head? If so you can shift the camera laterally, in the opposite direction to the lens lateral shift. That way the optical center remains the same and there's no distortion to be corrected at all. One should be able to have 3 images: left, right and center.

Now you will still get those vignetting corners due to the penumbra of the "throat" of the lens mount in the most lateral movement of the front part of the lens.

I like this lens very much. Now how much does that cost compared to the 17mm T/S of Canon for your 1DsIII? That would be an interesting comparison. With the Canon, going to f13, the tiny pixels would likely be already resolving the diffraction degradation caused by that small aperture. Still at f8 that new lens could be fabulous. The Sinar MF would still have the advantage in the quality of the picture but your office wont show it. It would take reproduction of great paintings or fashion shoots with wonderful fabrics to show the difference. Unless there are subtle tonal changes and deep detailed shadows and highlights, the two cameras would give close results...or not?

Asher

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

Did you all see what Canon is coming with? a 24mm and, what 17mm Tilt Shift... It would be interesting to test a 1DsMk3 with a 24mm PC and the Sinar arTec... (I't funny, but my father had an ad. company for 25 years called ArTecnica, or in short: AT. Nice name.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=156&modelid=18174

 

[nicolas claris]

Hi Asher
Yes I have an horizontal stage on my RRS tripod head.
But this stitching was an exercise but also to answer your question in Karsten thread about the different angle one can gain with the shifting.
The black corners would easily avoid if setting the shift o -10/+10 instead of 11…
These numbers may vary of course when the lens is changed (shorter or longer)

Cost?
Sinar arTec 7226 €
Sinaron Digital HR 4.5/28 CEF 3994 €
Total 11 220Euros = US$ 14.404

EOS-1Ds Mark III SLR Digital Camera US$ 6,999.95
Super Wide Angle EF 14mm f/2.8L II USM Autofocus Lens US$2,020
Total US$ 9019,95

But one can't compare the 2 systems, they are completely different and not for the same use.
Eventually the comparison would more interesting with the newly announced Canon ultra-wide angle 17mm tilt and shift lens, but what will be its price?…
I still doubt that the resolution and quality of gradients from the Sinarback eMotion could be reached by the Canon…

 

[nicolas claris]

Did you all see what Canon is coming with? a 24mm and, what 17mm Tilt Shift... It would be interesting to test a 1DsMk3 with a 24mm PC and the Sinar arTec...

LoL Leonardo !
read my post just under yours! (you've post yours as I was writing mine ;-)

Les grands esprits se rencontrent!

 

[Asher Kelman]

I like this lens very much. Now how much does that cost compared to the 17mm T/S of Canon for your 1DsIII? That would be an interesting comparison. ..............

I was thinking of this new T/S lens. Its just $2600 at B&H!

BTW, you left out the cost of the digital back, LOL!

Asher

 

[nicolas claris]

BTW, you left out the cost of the digital back, LOL!

ho!

Ok
from price list posted here

445.87.158 Sinaron Digital HR 4.5/28 CEF 3 994 Euros
+
Sinar arTec-e75r (493.23.013) (Bundle) 24 268 Euros

552.23.100 Sinar arTec
551.32.086 Focusing Magnifier
493.23.504 Metallic Format Mask 75
552.36.x13 Sinarback eMotion 75 LV
552.36.085 SB eMotion/Sinar Hy6 Revolving Adapter
551.64.070 Trigger Cable eMotion/Precision
551.63.054 Firewire Cable 1394 A, 4.5 m
551.43.097 White Shading Diffusor 100
552.36.096 Sinar V290 Li+ Battery
552.36.093 Battery Charger with Mains Adapters
552.37.092 CF Card 4 GB
552.37.090 CF Card Reader
751.43.003 Gray Card
551.33.090 Digital Cleaning Kit
CD with Capturing Software and Instructions Sinar arTec
475.45.038 Sinar Artec System Case with dedicated liner Oct. 08

Total (dunno if shipping is included ,-) Euros : 28 262 = US$ 36.286

 

[Asher Kelman]

... satisfaction on having the best, priceless!

Asher

 

[Thierry Hagenauer]

hi Nicolas,

You are such a fast-learning guy! And with such an enthusiasm!

Let me help you further in your learning process and concerning the lens fall-off at 11mm shift: this is ABSOLUTELY normal, and actually very little as compared to the equivalent Schneider lens. It does not even need a center-filter.

You can easily correct this, by shooting a "White Shading" file: that tool has just been added in the Sinar eXposure software. Simply put an opal glas in front of the lens, shoot an image under the same conditions (f-stop and camera setting), and apply it to the image, by marking the amount of fall-off you wish to correct (0; 25%; 50%; 75% or 100%): the fall-off will completely disappear.

In practice, one can easily go at 13 to 14mm shift with this Rodenstock 28mm HR lens, even full open, no problem: Rainer does it offen. And the corners will remain sharp without any noticeable degradation in resolution. And that is one of the advantages of Rodenstock HR lenses: they are sharp from full open till the corners, in the contrary to the Schneider equivalent lenses.

Now try this "White Shading" tool out and you will see "wonders"! Even possible uneven colors (color casts) will be corrected this way.

The black corners would easily avoid if setting the shift o -10/+10 instead of 11…
These numbers may vary of course when the lens is changed (shorter or longer)

I am of those who don't beleive that the 2 systems can ever be compared in terms of IQ AND use.

But one can't compare the 2 systems, they are completely different and not for the same use.
Eventually the comparison would more interesting with the newly announced Canon ultra-wide angle 17mm tilt and shift lens, but what will be its price?…
I still doubt that the resolution and quality of gradients from the Sinarback eMotion could be reached by the Canon…

Best regards,
Thierry

 

[leonardobarreto.com]

Interesting, It happens with Asher too, we probably are like Apple that we "think differently" but in the same way...

The advantage of the Canon is that you can shoot from the view finder while with the Sinar you have to slide the back, focus with a magnifier on the ground glass -I remember when I have used grand angular lenses on 4x5's how hard it is to see the image -- . The difference in productivity must be a factor for, say, a photographer on a tight schedule. Or shooting an interior with models, or from a helicopter..

LoL Leonardo !
read my post just under yours! (you've post yours as I was writing mine ;-)

Les grands esprits se rencontrent!

 

[nicolas claris]

The difference in productivity must be a factor for, say, a photographer on a tight schedule. Or shooting an interior with models, or from a helicopter..

Of course! this is exactly one of the "whys" we can't compare!
In a perfect world (without money, budget etc…) both systems the result is completely different in IQ , technically (how you use the system) and how you think for and with it…

My personnal goal is always to provide the best possible job to my clients, therefore, in still a perfect world I would have in my case, as of today (by alphabetical order, LoL):

- an assistant !
- an arTec with the range of Rodenstock lens
- a Canon system with all L lens (I nearly have it)
- an Hy6 with all lenses from UW to long one

Now, we're not in a perfect world… I am just challenging myself, thanks to Sinar loans.
I do hope that it helps some of photographers to get the picture (if I may say) of the Sinar system (and no, I'm not paid by Sinar's marketing dept!)

Now again, who said that I won't bring the arTec in an helicopter?!? (BTW Thierry don't forget your promise!)