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  • Welcome to the new site. Here's a thread about the update where you can post your feedback, ask questions or spot those nasty bugs!

Canon, take notice!

Jane Auburn

New member
The Canon "rebate" deals are being exposed for what they are: scams!

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=21264788

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=21090939

http://www.photocamel.com/index.php/topic,14054.0.html

Thousands upon thousands are getting suckered into buying equipment from Canon because of these rebates, dutifully and carefully filling out their rebate forms, and getting NOTHING in return, or getting screwed on their rebates.

This IS illegal. If Canon knowingly has a company handling rebates that is deceptive, Canon will be implicit in any lawsuits brought against the company handling the rebates.

[edited by Nicolas Claris to cancel any personal reference]
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Jane,

It's good you report. However, it's sad this is the impression that those who fulfill the coupons do this. It was brought up earlier this year in congress about the whole practice of coupos. I myself need to send in mine!!!!

It is not Chuck's fault!!!!

Anyway, sorry you have this problem. Is it you personally?

I think a lot of people ARE getting their rebate.

But it's good to keep meticous records of what one sends!!

Who has had a good or bad experience?

Asher
 

nicolas claris

OPF Co-founder/Administrator
Hi Jane

despite the problem you describe and that we understand, please do not call publicly (OPF is public) to C W as he's kind enough to answer and post good infos here. This has been kindly explained in the early hours of OPF...
here

If you cannot Edit anymore your message to correct this, please PM Asher or me and we'll do it for you.
 

Ken Tanaka

pro member
I know that this is not the response being sought on this thread. But it is my experience. I've purchased quite a bit of Canon equipment over the past several years. While I never select my purchases based on rebates I have been occasionally pleasantly surprised to discover, on perhaps 4-6 occasions, that some purchases were eligible. I have never had a Canon rebate bounce. I had no idea who was processing Canon's rebates although I assumed it was an outsourced task.

Still, the whole rebate mess does carry a distinct aroma.

Edit: I agree with Nicolas that it's just in plain poor judgement and taste to somehow indict Chuck Westfall as the target of your angst. Mr. Westfall has nothing whatsoever to do with Canon USA's business affairs. References to him should either be edited out of this thread or the thread should be killed.
 

Don Lashier

New member
After reading all the threads and consumer complaints I can only come to the conclusion that Canon chose to deal with a shyster company. Unfortunately this is going to sully their own reputation. One thing I love about Staples is no rebate shenanigans - no mailing in upcs or "original" receipts, fill out app online and receive check in mail a week or two later.

- DL
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Please let's talk about personal experience from you or someone you know. Following our policy to avoid deleting professional posts, I have not altered anything so far.

However, please let's show some balance. I don't want to censor the truth. Neither would Canon. Still make sure one is reporting pain that one knows about not one has "heard about".

I'd be happy to get experience and how problems were solved.

Asher
 

Nill Toulme

New member
I was about to post a suggestion that since I don't see any first-hand experiences reported in this thread, it should be deleted. But then I followed some of Jane's links, and some of the links within those links. Wow — this really does look like a terrible black eye for Canon and is very troubling. I hope it gets straightened out, and soon.

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
 

Tim Armes

New member
Personally I've used the scheme once and I received the rebate within the prescribed 28 days. However, with all the bad press that the scheme receives I did make sure the take a photo of everything that I put in the envelope before sending it.
 

BobSmith

New member
I routinely shop for the item with the best price WITHOUT a rebate. I hate dealing with the hassles. However earlier this year I made the jump from thirty plus years of Nikon shooting to Canon. I bought a substantial chunk of gear at once. Much of it included rebate offers from Canon. I filled out all the paper work and got the checks... about $600 worth.
 

Roger Lambert

New member
I have used the Canon rebate center twice - and received full rebate checks with no problems.

I used the online registration both times - perhaps that might make a difference.
 

Tom Henkel

New member
Mixed results for me...

Most of the rebate form's I've submitted resulted in the promised rebate. I had one case a while back where I pre-ordered something (a 580EX) and the rebate was rejected because the order date was outside the rebate period (even though the actual sale occured in the rebate period).

This particular rebate period seems to be generating more problems than usual. I agree with others that it's unfair to blame Chuck Westfall for this situation. I'm sure he had nothing to do with selecting the fulfillment company being used. But it would be useful if Chuck would take some of these posts back to Canon. The volume of complaints is disturbing, and not helping Canon's image with customers.

Tom
 

Erik DeBill

New member
I actually like the Canon rebate program better than the ones at the various electronics stores. Most of the ones at the stores are an obfuscation of price - buy an item, send something in, get some of the price back. Canon's are a reward for buying more than one item, which seems less contrived.

That said, I've never actually sent in the Canon rebate forms, so I can't say anything about whether they fulfill them properly.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
We'll keep the thread open to see if there are other real known issues here at OPF. I know the problem is real, however, the tone is unfortunate and not in the nature of OPF.

The companies running rebates in general give the MFRs a discounted price for the service. They are betting on most people not sending in their coupons.

If you have rebates, you use these companies, some of which are utterly dishonest. Since all companies that get discounts know the score, then they have some responsibility to make sure that the buyers are not falsely refused.

Just make sure the tone of this is civil.

Asher
 
Hi, Folks:

Let me assure anyone who is interested that Canon U.S.A. takes the issue of customer satisfaction very seriously. It's not by mistake that the PC Magazine Readers Survey has rated us #1 in digital camera after-sales customer satisfaction for the past 3 years in a row.

We are sincerely dedicated to honoring legitimate claims for our mail-in rebate programs. Towards that end, we recently set up a new system on our website that allows customers who qualify for rebates to expedite their requests through a pre-qualification process. Please visit the following web page and click on "PRE-QUALIFY YOUR REBATE" for details.

http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/NFL/index.html?id=specialoffers
https://www.web-rebates.com/canon/CIWC-FA06/step1.asp

In addition, we provide a toll-free dedicated support line for rebate requests through our Customer Support Center at 1-800-828-4040, and there is also a dedicated e-mail address for assistance on rebate claims:

rebates@cits.canon.com

Hope this helps!

Best Regards,

Chuck Westfall
Director/Media & Customer Relationship
Camera Marketing Group/Canon U.S.A., Inc.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Chuck,

Thanks so much for this complete and helpful answer.

You are always on our side and that fact is one of our valued resources!

Asher
 

Deborah Kolt

New member
First-hand problem with Canon rebates

Someone asked about actual experience with rebate denials. I had a big one a couple of years ago during one of the triple rebate promotions. Since I was submitting for three lenses and a 580EX, I spent quite a while meticulously preparing all the documentation, stapling the paperwork for each lens together separately, and making copies of everything. I then sent it Express Mail, in order to have proof of delivery and a signature of the recepient. I had encountered problems with rebates from other manufacturers before, and decided it was worth $13 to insure that they couldn't claim non-receipt. By the way USPS Express Mail also works with PO Boxes.

Several weeks later, I received a postcard stating that my rebate for the three lenses-the expensive part-was being denied because the documentation was incomplete. When I called the number on the card, the representative claimed I had not submitted the original UPC from the lens boxes. Note, this is the one thing that would be impossible for me to reproduce.

I (testily) pointed that those had been stapled together with the rest of the documentation for each lens so they could not possibly have lost them, and that I was at that very moment looking at my copies of said UPCs as well as the three actual boxes with the end flaps cut off. (Hey, they were triple rebates!) After being put on hold for a few minutes, a different representative came on and said curtly that my check was being mailed that day. No explanation, no apology. So I did eventually receive it, but probably only by virtue of anal-retentive behavior.

Let's be realistic - there is a reason companies go to the hassle of offering rebates instead of straight discounts - it saves money. Otherwise, why bother? They count on a significant portion of the buyers either not bothering to submit the rebate or doing it incorrectly. I've seen reports that rebate fulfillment companies guarantee the manufacturer they will have to pay out on no more than 25% of the sales. Even if that percentage is an exaggeration, rebates are still more lucrative for the manufacturer than a straightforward sale.

Eventually, some lawyer is going to get burned by one of these and file a class action lawsuit. Meanwhile, rebates just aggravate me. Now, when choosing between two otherwise equal items or sellers, I will go for a reduced price instead of a rebate.
 
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Eric Hiss

Member
one for two

I've participated in Canon's fall rebates for the last two years prior to this year and gotten the full amount quickly in 2004 but had problems with 2005. The rebate website said it had mailed my check but I never got it. I had to hassle them over several phone calls until someone actually told me they had some internal mistakes and several rebate checks had not been mailed and they did finally mail me my check that I got about 6 months after completing the forms. They didn't tell me how many people were affected but my dealings with the rebate company did not leave me with warm feelings and I did not choose to buy any canon gear during the fall rebate this year.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Hi Erik,

Your report is entirely welcome as it is your own exeprience. Therefore it is valid. I'm glad things went well part of the time at least.

Asher
 
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Jim Davies

New member
In the UK I've recently claimed 3 rebates (which I was surprised to get as I hadn't known about them) for a 300 f4L IS - £105, a 1.4x - £35 and a 580EX - £35.

Cheques were all delivered within 3 weeks of sending the details.

Great job canon I say :)
 

Will_Perlis

New member
"So I did eventually receive it, but probably only by virtue of anal-retentive behavior."

I've gotten all the rebates I applied for, from Canon and others. You're right, being anal-retentive about RTFM helps. It's a game-- I don't mind playing it as long as the other side plays fair.
 

Jane Auburn

New member
Asher Kelman said:
Well Deborah, I'm going to send in mine but first will follow Chuck's advice on pre-approvals!

Asher

You read the accounts on dpreview and elsewhere: The pre-approval process is no guarantee that you'll get the rebate--or that the process will be sped along.
 
I have to add that I am one of those that will avoid a rebate offer when determining price of an item. I will tend to buy the cheapest (if of equal value to me) item based on my walk out of the door cost as I feel rebates force me to give the government more money through sales tax paid.

However, after I have bought the item if it has a rebate worth bothering with (usually $30 or more) then I send it in.

I have gotten everything Canon promised to date although it did take a bit longer then expected, but the only actual rebate was on a printer (or a scanner can't remember as it has been awhile).

I keep buying my equipment on things they don't have rebates for at the time.

Right now I have one rebate out (not-Canon) which if it actually comes thorugh I will be very pleased. Based on average rebate time from sending to getting I still have about 30-45 days to wait for it before maybe inquiring.

To date I trust COMPUSA store mail-in rebates as they are easy and respond quickly to date. They are about the only source of rebates I actually might use in figuring the price because of the reliability when I have used in the past.

But since this is about Canon, I would have to say that my impression is one of - I expect a medium to high probability to eventually get the rebate after an extended period of time.

It should be high expectation of getting the rebate quickly if I make a reasonable effort to send in the correct stuff, but it is not for Canon yet. But as mentioned rebates are not something I consider in purchasing Canon equipment - it does what I need and that is the primary consideration.
 

Nill Toulme

New member
One other thing to note about rebates in general is that the checks themselves tend to come cunningly disguised as junk mail, encouraging you to throw them away unopened. I've rescued more than one from the trash (and no doubt thrown several away).

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
 

Jane Auburn

New member
Nill Toulme said:
One other thing to note about rebates in general is that the checks themselves tend to come cunningly disguised as junk mail, encouraging you to throw them away unopened. I've rescued more than one from the trash (and no doubt thrown several away).

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

THANK YOU for pointing that out. Just another way in which these companies seem to be doing everything in their power to keep you from cashing in on the "deal." That says "unscrupulous" to me.
 

Dave New

Member
I've used the previously-available Canon triple rebate program, and received several hundred dollars in rebates, but I found that when getting rebates through whatever company runs the web-rebates (https://www.web-rebates.com) site (they seem to work not only with Canon, but Sandisk and others -- essentially any rebates that are sent to Mesa, Arizona or Detroit addresses for fulfillment appears at this site), that you should expect that nothing in particular will get done except to acknowledge receipt of your rebate materials (doesn't mean they've checked them for accuracy, apparently), until sometime *after* the rebate mail-in period closes (appears to be 4-6 weeks).

So, if the rebate period extends from September through January, say, no real action is taken on processing the incoming rebates until probably February or March, at the earliest, depending on how long after the closing date on the rebate you have to get your rebates mailed in.

Then, after a several-week processing period, apparently the rebate company then bills the participating manufacturer (Canon, for instance) for the entire amount, and waits to get paid before cutting any checks. In the typical business 'net 30 days' business cycle, it could be another 30-45 days before checks go out.

I recently received a $15 Sandisk rebate check for an SD card I purchased last August. Folks had until the end of October to send in their forms, even though the original rebate period covered only a week. By watching the processing on the web site, I could see that after receiving my materials, that no one really did anything with them until sometime in November, about 30 days after the last allowed postmark date. Then adding on an additional 6-8 weeks to process the forms, invoice Sandisk (and get paid), and get the checks out, the check arrived the first week of December. Of course, I had only 60 days to cash it, or it became worthless. I managed to lose an earlier Sandisk $20 rebate by failing to deposit the check in time. It still shows on the web rebate site as having been mailed, but never cashed, almost a year later. You'd think they'd age out checks that aren't ever cashed and show them as such, to cut down on folks calling in and complaining they had never received their check, just to see if they can get another one cut.

Not that I'd think anyone here would ever attempt retail fraud....

In the meantime, I'm holding on to the rebate materials for a Canon 60mm EF-S Macro I got recently. I may get something else qualifying before the current period is over, and if so, I can then double the rebate. I anticipate not seeing any funds from any submission this go-around until sometime next summer.
 

Jane Auburn

New member
Young America has been up to these illegal practices a long time. Canon should be ashamed and implicated, IMO. If Mr. Westfall is serious about Canon having its customers' best interest at heart, perhaps he will want to let the powers that be know that the consumers are on to this scam. What we need are not press-release-type statements about how "consumer friendly" Canon is but concrete action to fix this mess.

http://www.mass.gov/treasury/PressReleases/11705.htm

Media Release
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT:Alison Mitchell
November 7, 2005 (617) 367-6900


CAHILL FILES SUIT AGAINST REBATE COMPANY
Millions in Uncashed Checks Kept from Massachusetts Residents

Massachusetts State Treasurer Tim Cahill today filed suit against Young America Corporation in an effort to return millions of dollars to Massachusetts residents. The suit petitions the Massachusetts Superior Court to direct Young America to open its records of uncashed rebate checks for examination by auditors.

“Records confirm that Young America owes millions to Massachusetts residents, and $129 million to consumers nationwide,” said Treasurer Cahill.

Young America, a Minnesota based company, is the country's largest rebate fulfillment house. Many large companies, including Hewlett-Packard and Best Buy, have used Young America to process rebate forms and send rebate checks to their customers. In an apparent attempt to avoid state unclaimed property laws, Young America has entered into agreements with these and other companies allowing it to keep the proceeds of uncashed checks in exchange for charging the customer a discounted processing fee. From 1995 to 2002, according to SEC filings, Young America pocketed $42,962,339 in uncashed rebate checks as its own income. Court records confirm that Young America returned approximately $86 million in uncashed rebate checks to its corporate clients, rather than to consumers. Numerous consumer complaints have also been made about “phantom rebates,” which include extensive paperwork and impossible deadlines.

"This is one of the worst consumer abuses I’ve seen,” said Treasurer Cahill. “Not only is the consumer virtually unable to obtain promised rebates, but Young America, which should be processing those rebates, is keeping uncashed checks as its own property.”

Massachusetts law requires that after three years, the proceeds of uncashed rebate checks must be turned over to the state’s abandoned property division and returned to their rightful owners. In 2003, Treasurer Cahill formally notified Young America that

Massachusetts joined 40 other states asking to audit Young America’s unclaimed rebate check records. Young America refused to comply with state laws and, instead, filed an action in the United States District Court to block the audits. The action was dismissed, and the United States Court of Appeals has affirmed that decision. Young America has now filed suit against Massachusetts and the 40 other states in a further attempt to withhold more than $40 million dollars from consumers nationwide. Since Young America has continued to refuse to cooperate in an examination of its records to ensure compliance with the Massachusetts law, Treasurer Cahill has filed suit in Massachusetts Superior Court to halt to this abuse.

“Young America has been keeping uncashed checks as their own property instead of turning this money over to consumers,” stated Cahill. “This suit will help put an end to these abuses and return money to its rightful owners in Massachusetts.”

Cahill oversees the state’s Abandoned Property Division, which in fiscal year 2005 returned more than $70 million in cash and stock to residents, municipalities and organizations in Massachusetts. For more information, or to see if you have money with the Abandoned Property Division, visit www.findmassmoney.com.

Prior to being elected Treasurer in 2002, Cahill served as Norfolk County Treasurer and a City Councilor in Quincy, and was a successful small business owner. He lives in Quincy with his wife and four daughters.
 

Tom Henkel

New member
Chill, please....

>>Young America has been up to these illegal practices a long time. Canon should be >>ashamed and implicated, IMO. If Mr. Westfall is serious about Canon having its customers' >>best interest at heart, perhaps he will want to let the powers that be know that the >>consumers are on to this scam. What we need are not press-release-type statements about >>how "consumer friendly" Canon is but concrete action to fix this mess.

Jane,

Try and calm down. I agree with you that the rebate situation looks very bad for Canon. The volume, and consistency, of complaints makes it clear this problem goes beyond a few unfortunate mistakes. The issue is a hot topic in virtually every online photography forum right now. At minimum, Canon has a serious PR problem. With so much discussion of filing complaints with various state attorneys general and talk of class-action lawsuits, there are legal and financial implications as well.

Whenever potential legal or financial liability enters into the picture, corporations tend to circle the wagons. I would expect Canon to move very deliberately from this point forward. Any official statements will be measured and carefully crafted.

Chuck Westfall works for Canon. As a Canon spokesman, Chuck can only relay the official corporate message. Trust me on this: in situations like this one, corporate spokespeople have no leeway in what they can say. You can’t publicly express your opinion. You can’t speculate on what might happen next. You can’t drop hints for others to interpret. You can’t make any statement that could be construed as an admission of guilt or responsibility. This is serious stuff. All Chuck can give us in the Canon party line. Right now, the party line appears to be to get pre-approval of rebates through a Canon Web site. I know you can find various customer complaints saying that gaining pre-approval is no guarantee of a rebate check. But that is the current official policy.

I realize you, and many others, are frustrated with Canon right now. But understand Chuck is just doing his job. Give the guy a break. I sincerely doubt that Chuck had any direct involvement in oversight of the rebate program or the selection of Young America as the fulfillment agency. Don’t shoot the messenger. I’m sure Chuck will give us updates as he is able to do so. And don’t assume that he’s not listening to the complaints. You just have to let this situation play out.

Tom
 
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