Firedance with me: help needed

[Angelica Oung]

I finally tracked down the firedancer. Oddly enough, he is from new jersey (his parents are Taiwanese) and learned how to fire dance in Israel. He also learned how to do work with a glass ball in Sweden. The crowds are entranced by his shows.

1.

Funnily enough my favorite shot of the lot was not one where he worked with fire. He also does glass ball manipulations. I think I will be able to get closer to him the next time and take more shots where the glass ball is a lot more prominent. I would love to get a good one of the part of his act where the glass ball appears to be suspended in the air while his hands move around it.

2.

Do a google image search for "fire dancing" and you will get pages of spectacular shots of 'flame pretzels' -- long exposure shots of the poi being twirled around. However, in most cases the dancer itself will become indistinct as in the case here. I would certainly like to get a few good pretzel shots (I think a tripod will help, as will shooting away from a background with so much ambient light), but ultimately I think I'm more interested in shots where the fire dancer is a substantial subject.

3.

I think you understand why I want to feature the dancer more heavily -- he is gorgeous and very graceful. I wish he could be more substantial in this picture (and others).

4.

The lack of solidity in this picture is acceptable, I think, because he is at least in clear focus compared to the background. Still a bit ghostly though, I think.

So have at it, guys. I think this model is first-rate and the pictures are only, as the greek say, etsi ketsi. I'll be back to do more work with him in the future for sure. This means that any technical feedback I can get will be doubly welcome. Be honest with me: What works? What doesn't? What would you like to see me try?

 

[Charles L Webster]

Have you considered dragging the shutter, using a long exposure to capture the flame paths, then a quick flash just before the shutter closes to freeze the dancer?

I have an acquaintance who fire dances, and I have often contemplated how to shoot her, but have not had the opportunity.

 

[Don Lashier]

I've photographed, or rather attempted to photograph this fire dancer four or five times, both indoors and out, and it ain't easy! I tried all variations of flash including trailing flash and multi-flash. Although these gave some curious results I didn't consider most of them artistic. Some multi-flash resembled Hindu temple paintings of multi-armed goddesses, and the single flash looked artificial. I ultimately ended up abandoning the flash for actual dance shots but bear in mind that I was shooting in low ambient light and trailing flash in brighter conditions (where the flash is contributing less) might work better.

A good model who's savvy to the fact you're doing time photography can help by striking "poses", but ultimately you've got conflicting requirements here and just have to work it to best advantage. If you want to highlight the person and not the fire I think you've just got to shorten your shutter speed and possibly also fill on the end.

Here's a couple "pretzel" shots, one outdoors, one indoors. Three galleries on my website - iirc the last sequence indoors includes a fill flash on most frames as do many of the "peripheral" ones.

- DL

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[Will_Perlis]

I'm wondering if, in order to capture what one actually sees while watching a fire dancer, one might have to resort to the dreaded "manipulation" and combination of at least two images.

Otherwise, I think the slow shutter + flash is the way to go, like with hummingbirds.

 

[Don Lashier]

I've posted this image before in the "oops" thread, but this is one of the more salvagable of what I got with trailing flash, this one at 1/10s exposure - longer exposures (eg 1/2 sec to 1 sec) were even wierder. The problem with longer exposures is that the torches themselves put out quite a bit of light in effect light painting the dancer.

btw Angelica, I really look the glass ball shot too.

- DL

 

[Angelica Oung]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

@Will: If possible, I really do not want to go the route of taking two pictures and meshing elements from each into a final picture. This is partly because I'm simply not kitted out (either in terms of software or skill) to do such a mosaic. However, I also think that it must be almost as hard to take two pictures with different settings that are close enough to mesh as it is to take one where the effect is achieved in one frame.

@Charles: I think dragging the shutter was what I was trying to do. However, what with the chap swinging around flaming torches, I stayed on the outer limit of the effective range of my flash. It definitely helped, but it was not enough to achieve solidity, hence the ghostly figures.

I think in terms of gear, a tripod might help, at least in producing better fire pretzels. The dancer is moving around enough as it is without adding camera shake to the party. I would love more flash, but alas, the piggy bank is low.

@Don: thanks so much for your imput. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one having problems simultaneously capturing a good flame path and a substantial and solid figure. However, I have to say the one by the beach with the reflection of the 'pretzel' in the wet sand is stunning, even if you cannot see the figure clearly.

I think taking the pictures at dusk is a crackerjack idea. The ambient light illuminates the figure to some degree but the fire still sets up well. It might really be something if there is an actual sunset in the background too. Heh. Now to persuade my fire dancer that the seaside town of Danshui (40 minutes train ride from Taipei, famous sunsets) is the perfect location for a performance...

 

[Trevor Dennis]

Those are amazing images. Especially the one on the beach. There is something about fire and people that excites - perhaps because you are just a little worried on their behalf.

A great thing about New Zealand is that people don't go over the top with safety issues, so as a photographer I can get really close to the action...

...not as close as this guy, thank goodness.

 

[Angelica Oung]

Oh, Issac didn't mind me getting close. I was too terrified of getting specks of ash on my camera.

By the way, amazing pic. I love the way the flame is rippling the air around it. What a shot!

 

[Don Lashier]

Yes, a tripod is a must. Aperture is mandated by the flame - in order to preserve color and form you want to mostly avoid blowing out the flame. What worked for me was in the f8 +/- range (ISO 200). Exposure length will determine background exposure and flame trail length. There may be some trade-off here depending upon ambient and the desire to feature or suppress the background. I generally used 0.5s to 1.6s. Although I normally meter everything this is one case that really calls for chimping. Set to 1s then adjust aperture til flames are not blowing out then adjust time as desired for background and trail length. Even so the background on the beach shots was too dark for printing (although they are sort of ok on the web), so I had to resort to dual conversions and simple HDR merged layers to make a printable version. In the gallery only the first one has received this treatment so the rest show some flame blowout from upping the EC for the bg. I'll fix them when I find the time.

Also, great shot Trevor!

- DL

 

[Angelica Oung]

Thanks for the technical info. I pushed my ISO way past 200...I think I was shooting on 800. And there is grain. Ugh!

As for chimping, I've heard the term before in passing but never figured out what it meant. Then I did a google search and turned up this video:

http://www.sportsshooter.com/special_feature/chimping/index.html

Good for laughs. I have to say I chimp. I'm a chimpion. I don't see anything wrong with chimping, but I do think it's a hilarious pejorative.

 

[Scott B. Hughes]

I don't chimp often, but when I do more often than not, it's when photographing a fire dancer to verify exposure balance.

Tough subject, eh?