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Hard lighting

SeanMcCormack

pro member
I'm making a move into trying harder lighting and looking for opinions on what modifiers to use. I've seen some stuff done by Alan Strutt using a white background in which there is a hard black edge where the light goes to black. It looks like a single light from above, butterfly style but it still looks controlled. I've spent the last half hour looking for the photos and finally found them at http://gorillamask.net/khzoo20.shtml Nudity Warning so don't act all offended when you see it. Keeley is an English icon for 2 reasons after all. Anyhow while she is pretty I'm more interested in how this photo shoot was lit. Is it one single flash? (I'm pretty certain it is from the shadow) How is it modified? Grids I assume but as I've only used boxes and brollies and snoots, I can't tell for certain. The standard reflector on my Bowens Epsrit 500's doesn't give the same edge.. Anyone have an idea?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
SeanMcCormack said:
I'm making a move into trying harder lighting and looking for opinions on what modifiers to use. I've seen some stuff done by Alan Strutt using a white background in which there is a hard black edge where the light goes to black. It looks like a single light from above, butterfly style but it still looks controlled. I've spent the last half hour looking for the photos and finally found them at http://gorillamask.net/khzoo20.shtml Nudity Warning so don't act all offended when you see it. Keeley is an English icon for 2 reasons after all. Anyhow while she is pretty I'm more interested in how this photo shoot was lit. Is it one single flash? (I'm pretty certain it is from the shadow) How is it modified? Grids I assume but as I've only used boxes and brollies and snoots, I can't tell for certain. The standard reflector on my Bowens Epsrit 500's doesn't give the same edge.. Anyone have an idea?

Sean,

Stephen Eastwood & Frank Doorhof are best fit to answer you.

In the meanwhile I think that there may be a reflector in the lower half or a second light as there is little shadow below the breasts to match that in the upper part.

Asher
 

Don Lashier

New member
Don't know if this is what you're looking for, but this was done with a single direct light, barn doors augmented with light blockers, and obviously an overhead fill.
nd26887p.jpg


- DL
 
I'm mixed about the shot, the shadows are harsch but the light itself looks softer.
Maybe it's a Fresnel or beautydish. But outside in the sun could also be a good option because a lot of skin is covered with the light, there is no fall off anywhere.

It's placed slightly from above (follow the shadows) and aimed almost in front of the model, again follow the shadows.

It's always rather easy to guess the lightsetup.
Remember that hard light will give you harsch shadows and much contrast.
Softlight will give you softer shadows and less contrast.

So when the shadows are deep black its almost certain hard light.
When seeing the shadows on the backdrop here and the shadow under the nose it's most likely a harder light source.

To emulate this effect you could try an open reflector (I don't believe it's a grid, or it must be far away), maybe add a little diffusion material to it.

Greetings,
Frank
 

Don Lashier

New member
No mixed feelings here. I don't like them (the shots) at all - like cheap cheesecake, but maybe that was the intent.

- DL
 
Don I think after looking longer they are indeed taken outside.
I personally also don't like this kind of photo's, simply because there is too much flat light.
In photography shadows are your friend, in other words they make the picture pop and give it depth.

When they are missing especially in glamour it's often too flat.

Greetings,
Frank
 

tim_darwish

New member
Sean
To me these images look like HMI. They could have been done outside but I don't believe they are because of the angle of light is the same in both pictures on that site.When I was an assistant I was on many jobs using HMI and these examples look like they were shot with no diffusion at all and probably had black foamcore on both sides to keep the shadows hard. You could easily get enough coverage with a 6k HMI the only problem is that they rent for $500+ a day and studios charge extra for power usage.
To see some really nice examples of the same type of lighting check out the link for Peter Lindberghs Hugo Boss photos. These believe that they were shot with a 12K Frenel HMI with 1/4 rosco diffusion over it.
http://www.mfilomeno.com/peterlindbergh/hugo_boss-b.html
 

SeanMcCormack

pro member
Wow, Loads of replies. Stephen, I did think that sunlight was also an option. There are other full length shots in the article not shown at the link that have a coving or seamless background look to them that just made me assume it was indoors. I love your stuff BTW and find it inspirational.
The Peter Lindbergh shots make me want to paint my outside wall white and maybe add a coving!! I wonder if my landlord would be amenable to the idea :)
Frank, I understand why you might dislike the look, after all an Octobox just looks so good! This is as much about adding to my arsenal as anything else.
 
Not only for that reason.
The problem I have with this kind of photography is the fact it looks flat and cheap (sorry for the photographer), when doing glamour I strongly believe you should make it exciting and playful so shadows are an important factor, or use the softest light available.
 

Paul Schefz

New member
i think it is sunlight with a ringflash fill (probably with a diffusion)...highlights say sunlight, highlights on everything closest to the lens say ringlight ...the shot were she is holding her assets is obviously ringlight..so maybe the sun went behind a cloud at that point? and he still liked the shot?
about the lindberg shots: in ad shots like this it is almost impossible to say how they were lit (unless you were there) becuase so much postproduction goes into every shot...
 
The big picture is nog ringlight, not even fill I'm afraid.
When using a ringflash the deep shadows should be lightended up a bit, and there should be a catchlight in the eyes, the eyes are now way to dark for fill in from a ringflash.
 

tim_darwish

New member
Paul Schefz said:
about the lindberg shots: in ad shots like this it is almost impossible to say how they were lit (unless you were there) becuase so much postproduction goes into every shot...


True a lot of post production is done on those photos but you would be amazed at how good the actual shots looked before retouching.
The information was first hand from someone on the shoot and himself an amazing photographer/ Creative Director

As for the Keely shots I don't think anything was added lighting wise in PS as it seems there was little retouching on these photos. Taking a second look at the photos that graduate to grey the are screaming Frenel lens, nice and crisp on the inside flooding soft on the outside so in my mind I still think HMI possibly Profoto Frenel head.

As for the other two shots pointed out as ring flash, no arguement there definatly used as a fill.
 
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Paul Schefz

New member
i am sure the shots looked great to start with...i mean in general looking at ads and trying to figure out how they were lit is hard because there is usually not an inch of skin untouched, highlights drawn in, shadows draws in, shadows opened up,...it is just hard to tell...
for the same reason it is fairly easy to tell about the mentioned shots, (almost) no retouching...
phantastic light (and used very much right now in big productions) is Briese...i think they were the first to have focusable parabol reflectors (umbrellas)..now broncolor,...all make them as well...extremely brilliant/specular but soft at the same time...hard to explain..this very brilliant light just wraps itself around the subject....
 

Ray West

New member
Hi Chas,

the home page is at **ttp://gorillamask.net/khzoo20.shtml then its photo 5 and 1.

(replace the ** with ht above, I didn't want the images appearing here.)

the % can mess with some browsers...

Best wishes,

Ray
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
BTW, we can show pictures of unclothed people but the context has to be the photograph as art itesle, not merely prurient interest. Photographing ships, sand dunes, musical instruments and the like have much in common with lighting and photographing the human form.

Still, Ray's coded url is with protective intent!

Asher
 
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