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How about the Norwood dome in a normal office?

Ted Cousins

Member
As opposed to in a studio with just key, or just key-plus-fill, lighting at specific positions.

For example, in an office with large external and internal windows, overhead lighting and maybe sundry desk lamps - not to mention reflections from desktop stuff like documents.

I think that the said dome placed in front of the subject and pointed at the camera would work well enough in spite of all the above ...
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Ted,
As opposed to in a studio with just key, or just key-plus-fill, lighting at specific positions.

For example, in an office with large external and internal windows, overhead lighting and maybe sundry desk lamps - not to mention reflections from desktop stuff like documents.

Or even an outdoor scene.
I think that the said dome placed in front of the subject and pointed at the camera would work well enough in spite of all the above ...

That is the basic operation suggested by most meter manuals.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Robert Watcher

Well-known member
It’s been a long time since I’ve used a handheld meter for my photography. But before digital, in my professional studio years, one was essential. I relied heavily on my Sekonic incident light meter for both ambient outdoor exposures and very importantly for flash work in my studio

For overall exposure the meter dome was always placed right in front of the subject facing the camera giving a reading for the combined light. However when I used multiple light sources and needed to determine the different values of main, fill, rim, hair and backlight —— the meter dome was close to the subject facing each light source, whether indoor or outdoor and from experience I knew the values I wanted for each light.

With the tricky lighting you describe with possible extremes of source lighting like windows and lamps, even with higher dynamic range cameras, the best option with digital ability is generally combining images taken with different exposure values for each source. But if the goal is just to have a properly exposed subject and let everything else fall where it may, then aiming the meter dome at the camera from in front of the subject will get the closest value depending on how close the subject toanility is to neutral gray.

I’ve often been tempted to buy a used meter for old time sake, but it would just be a waste of money when I can look at the lcd screen or tethered laptop and determine the exposure.
 
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Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Rob,

Thanks for your observations. It is good to hear from an actual photographer (I'm just a "drug store cowboy" here).
<snip>

For overall exposure the meter dome was always placed right in front of the subject facing the camera giving a reading for the combined light. However when I used multiple light sources and needed to determine the different values of main, fill, rim, hair and backlight —— the meter dome was close to the subject facing each light source . . .
I suspect you are talking about your observing the "ratio" between the various light sources to make it what you had found was desirable for that shot.

If so, when you measured one source, were the others lit or dark?

In this scenario, then, how did you finally determine the proper shutter speed and aperture combination?

Thanks.

Best regards,

Doug
 

Robert Watcher

Well-known member
I wish I could even remember Doug. it’s been 25 years LOL!

I suspect you are talking about your observing the "ratio" between the various light sources to make it what you had found was desirable for that shot.

Yes. As an example it is obvious that a hair light or rime light is brighter than the overall front lighting. Deduction would presume that those lights should be one or one and a half stops brighter, but experience shows that the angle of incidence of the light source affects the exposure and so a proper incident reading of those lights may be a half or full stop or more, less than the light reading hitting the front of the subject. The only reason an incident meter is used is to get a consistent 18% gray reading value from any light source or combined light source, instead of a reading that is skewed by objects of different values like a typical camera reflective meter reading does..


If so, when you measured one source, were the others lit or dark?

I used both. It depended on how precise I needed the exposure to be, the environment, and effect of each light source on the scene. Most of the time all light sources were on though, and the dome directed toward each light source was sufficiently restricted to give a reading I needed.


In this scenario, then, how did you finally determine the proper shutter speed and aperture combination?

It depends —- if flash is being used whether indoors or outdoors, the shutter speed is set first according to camera sync speed or how much ambient light to include. and makes no different on the exposure the flash will provide. That shutter speed was entered on my sekonic meter and aperture was controlled by the power adjustments of the flash light source. For totally ambient, shutter speed and aperture are a creative choice dictated by the meter being zeroed out, and desired plus minus compensation.
 

Robert Watcher

Well-known member
Sorry —- I just noticed this post is about a Norwood Dome. I have idea what that is so my response may be way off base.
 

Robert Watcher

Well-known member
So I have to tell you that what I love about AI is the ability to pull out information that I gathered and valued years ago and used in my own professional work —— but have not continued to practice, and no longer have the books that were my daily manuals in my studio.

——-
JUST FUN INFO THAT I REMEMBER


This may not be the place to post, but it is more or less a relevant topic. A little tidbit that served me well. I had a book by the photographer Garry Bernstein that helped me a lot with my lighting and use of incident light metering my subjects. He was exquisite with his control of light.

One of his philosophies that helped me make choices when purchasing my meter, was that he did not encourage acquiring the most accurate and often most expensive or prestigious meter. Forget about the specs. He was far more interested in consistency, even if the meter wasn’t totally accurate. And I ended settling on a relatively inexpensive Sekonic light meter. Same principle went for my studio light8ng.

So it is pretty cool that I prompted AI about Gary and his method of teaching metering, and it accurately returned the following.

————


Gary Bernstein’s philosophy hits on one of the great practical truths of commercial and portrait lighting: repeatability trumps laboratory calibration every single time.


In studio photography, especially in the film era where Bernstein made his mark shooting high-end beauty, fashion, and celebrity portraits, the margin for error on slide film (transparencies like Kodachrome or Ektachrome) was less than a third of a stop. If a meter was off by 1/3 or even 1/2 of a stop from an absolute NIST standard, it didn't matter in the slightest, provided it was off by that exact same fraction every time you pressed the button.


Once you shot a test roll, calibrated your workflow, and learned:


  • "When my meter reads f/8, my highlights on this emulsion / this sensor look perfect at f/8 and a half"

...you had total control. The meter became a reliable relative ruler.


Why Consistency Wins Over "Accuracy"


  • Lighting Ratios Depend on Delta, Not Absolute Values: When you’re dialing in a 3:1 or 4:1 key-to-fill ratio, or setting a hair light precisely one stop above the key, what matters is the gap between the readings. If the meter drifts or has inconsistent internal circuitry, a 1-stop difference on paper might physically be 1.5 stops or 0.5 stops on set.
  • Eliminating Variables: In a shoot involving strobes, pack variations, ambient falloff, and varying subject skin tones, the meter is meant to be the single anchor. If the tool giving you numbers fluctuates by a quarter-stop on three consecutive pops from the same light, you can't troubleshoot anything.
  • Calibration Is Just an Offset: "Accuracy" is easy to adjust for”you simply tweak the meter's calibration screw, set an ISO compensation offset, or adjust your lens aperture by an index mark. But you cannot calibrate for jitter, drift, or erratic behavior.

Bernstein understood that tools don't create the final image; predictability and a repeatable baseline do. Once you know your tools specific bias, consistency allows you to light intuitively and trust that the result on the film plane (or sensor) will match your intent without second-guessing.

———

Of course now in the digital world with instant access to the results and far greater dynamic range, these methods don’t really have much benefit. But they sure did back in the day.
 
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Ted Cousins

Member
This may not be the place to post, but it is more or less a relevant topic. A little tidbit that served me well. I had a book by the photographer Garry Bernstein that helped me a lot with my lighting and use of incident light metering my subjects. He was exquisite with his control of light.

One of his philosophies that helped me make choices when purchasing my meter, was that he did not encourage acquiring the most accurate and often most expensive or prestigious meter. Forget about the specs. He was far more interested in consistency, even if the meter wasn’t totally accurate. And I ended settling on a relatively inexpensive Sekonic light meter. Same principle went for my studio light8ng.

Yes, my first Sekonic (L-398) gave consistently low-lightness recommendations when set to ISO 100. So I turned it down to ISO 50 while keeping my camera set to ISO 100. That fixed that ...
 

Doug Kerr

Well-known member
Hi, Guys,

I have a feeling that even the most crummy meter wouldn't have a "consistency" problem (unless of course it was damaged). So I'm not sure that "consistency" would really be a criterion in choosing a meter.

I think some very spiffy meters do give a specification of "repeatability", which is probably the formal property being discussed here. But most don't.

So, if in choosing between an Atlas EM-1000 and a Bofus E50, if "consistency" was our main criterion I don't know how we would proceed.

Best regards,

Doug
 
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