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Los Angeles Protests and spillover looting!

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
The police use a tactic of psychological tertor, I call, “The “Planet of the Apes” meat-softening approach”.

They let white saboteurs, (right wing fascist and Trump supporters), and black Greedy rioters with SUVs to load up, destroy family owned stores, with no effort to intervene to teach people like me with sympathies for blacks a lesson in “Reality”!

Then, when they respond in overwhelming force, they have already subdued and broken much of the general populations opposition to police excesses.

The police simply demand cowering respect and physical subservience from anyone they stop and address!

From my perspective wearing the, albeit, limited spectacles of a (self-educated), social anthropologist, I see nothing surprising when the Blacks loot and the white and Hispanics to some extent join in.

We are recently-evolved marauding apes with sets of rules for rank and suppression of violence. We have social contracts, where in return for abiding by social rules, we get adequate respect and protection.

But here, when every time a fit black man walks upright, that’s an act of aggression by those in the white neighborhood, then the black sons of black mothers know their lives are on a thin thread!

This fact breaks the social contract. So when there is some spark and possibility for looting, there are no laws to break as the 4 policeMen’s conjoint act of purposefully and continuously, (as a cooperating group), asphyxiating a handcuffed compliant black man shelved all social contracts and abolished a state of societal law.

Mob violence is a demand not just for a share of stored wealth but for rank and recognition!

That’s my view of things. Without burnt police cars and stores, the stakeholders have no need to nehotiate a new compact!

Ashe
 

Nicolas Claris

Administrator/Moderator
The police use a tactic of psychological tertor, I call, “The “Planet of the Apes” meat-softening approach”.

They let white saboteurs, (right wing fascist and Trump supporters), and black Greedy rioters with SUVs to load up, destroy family owned stores, with no effort to intervene to teach people like me with sympathies for blacks a lesson in “Reality”!

Then, when they respond in overwhelming force, they have already subdued and broken much of the general populations opposition to police excesses.

The police simply demand cowering respect and physical subservience from anyone they stop and address!

From my perspective wearing the, albeit, limited spectacles of a (self-educated), social anthropologist, I see nothing surprising when the Blacks loot and the white and Hispanics to some extent join in.

We are recently-evolved marauding apes with sets of rules for rank and suppression of violence. We have social contracts, where in return for abiding by social rules, we get adequate respect and protection.

But here, when every time a fit black man walks upright, that’s an act of aggression by those in the white neighborhood, then the black sons of black mothers know their lives are on a thin thread!

This fact breaks the social contract. So when there is some spark and possibility for looting, there are no laws to break as the 4 policeMen’s conjoint act of purposefully and continuously, (as a cooperating group), asphyxiating a handcuffed compliant black man shelved all social contracts and abolished a state of societal law.

Mob violence is a demand not just for a share of stored wealth but for rank and recognition!

That’s my view of things. Without burnt police cars and stores, the stakeholders have no need to nehotiate a new compact!

Ashe
An interesting approach and analysis. Thank you for that…
 

Nicolas Claris

Administrator/Moderator
Then my thoughts wander into dangerous territory. How does a community exist when blacks are called BLACKS and whites are called WHITES like they're on opposite sides of a football team.
Tom,
There are black, white, yellow, red people. As there are blondes, brunettes, chestnuts, reds with curly, straight, curly or frizzy hair. Males and females or females and males, I let you choose the right order.
We are all a mixture of these qualifiers, all equal with different stories.
I know it's not politically correct, but for me there's no reason not to call a cat a cat, because I don't put any connotation to it, it's just a physical description...
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Read about the “Rodney King Riots”

The Los Angeles police admitted holding back police intervention in the subsequent looting, to teach us a lesson about “The Planet of the Apes” If we didn’t respect that it was the “Thin Blue Line” of police officers who were normally protecting us from the wild urges of Blacks and Hiaspanics!
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
The police use a tactic of psychological tertor, I call, “The “Planet of the Apes” meat-softening approach”.

They let white saboteurs, (right wing fascist and Trump supporters), and black Greedy rioters with SUVs to load up, destroy family owned stores, with no effort to intervene to teach people like me with sympathies for blacks a lesson in “Reality”!

Then, when they respond in overwhelming force, they have already subdued and broken much of the general populations opposition to police excesses.

The police simply demand cowering respect and physical subservience from anyone they stop and address!

From my perspective wearing the, albeit, limited spectacles of a (self-educated), social anthropologist, I see nothing surprising when the Blacks loot and the white and Hispanics to some extent join in.

We are recently-evolved marauding apes with sets of rules for rank and suppression of violence. We have social contracts, where in return for abiding by social rules, we get adequate respect and protection.

But here, when every time a fit black man walks upright, that’s an act of aggression by those in the white neighborhood, then the black sons of black mothers know their lives are on a thin thread!

This fact breaks the social contract. So when there is some spark and possibility for looting, there are no laws to break as the 4 policeMen’s conjoint act of purposefully and continuously, (as a cooperating group), asphyxiating a handcuffed compliant black man shelved all social contracts and abolished a state of societal law.

Mob violence is a demand not just for a share of stored wealth but for rank and recognition!

That’s my view of things. Without burnt police cars and stores, the stakeholders have no need to nehotiate a new compact!

Ashe
Apposing a broken system is not enough. We need a sound coherent economic plan for the 21st Century. Otherwise democracy itself is at risk. Most of whats happening has not so much to do with race but with the policies that have been in place for the last 40 years or so. There is a difference between wealth extraction and wealth creation. This is what happens when governments loose their moral authority and instead rely on coercing people to obey them.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Apposing a broken system is not enough. We need a sound coherent economic plan for the 21st Century. Otherwise democracy itself is at risk. Most of whats happening has not so much to do with race but with the policies that have been in place for the last 40 years or so. There is a difference between wealth extraction and wealth creation. This is what happens when governments loose their moral authority and instead rely on coercing people to obey them.
“The Black Lives Matter“ protests have zero to do with the economy engine we use.

it is simply about the value of a human standing before a cop!

The police has enough arrogance towards folk to fuel a rocket to Mars!

it’s their attitude of demanding cowering respect towards blacks that is the worst.

Still, on a separate matter you are absolutely right about our need for a totally revised economic engine as we are unsustainable!

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
It is difficult to know, but it seems that some of the looting and riot is initiated by agitators who are not part of the protest. It is a tactic that is sometimes used (and not only in the USA) to take away support to the protests: bring some professional agitators to smash shop windows, set fire to cars, etc... and then accuse the demonstration to be violent. The objective would be to polarise the electorate in view of the next election.
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
“The Black Lives Matter“ protests have zero to do with the economy engine we use.

it is simply about the value of a human standing before a cop!

The police has enough arrogance towards folk to fuel a rocket to Mars!

it’s their attitude of demanding cowering respect towards blacks that is the worst.

Still, on a separate matter you are absolutely right about our need for a totally revised economic engine as we are unsustainable!

Asher
Yes I understand what you are saying Asher. The point that I am trying to make is that if folks had their needs met it would be less likely of such confrontations in the first place.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Yes I understand what you are saying Asher. The point that I am trying to make is that if folks had their needs met it would be less likely of such confrontations in the first place.
No question that lack of any trickling down of the benefits of the rising atomic markets to blue collar and many white collar workers does indeed aggravate the mood.

Yes, that’s totally true.

However, you nurture a son. He grows up fit and strong and if he meets up, happenstance, with an annoyed white person, jungle justice using excuses of “hw made movements “reaching for a weapon”, or something like that.

We get executions of black men So regularly.

Also if you are white, and look into that, (happen to be unusually), arrogant cop’s eyes, he will assume you’re difficult and worthless trash to be humiliated or worse!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
No question that lack of any trickling down of the benefits of the rising atomic markets to blue collar and many white collar workers does indeed aggravate the mood.

Yes, that’s totally true.

However, you nurture a son. He grows up fit and strong and if he meets up, happenstance, with an annoyed white person, jungle justice using excuses of “hw made movements “reaching for a weapon”, or something like that.

We get executions of black men So regularly.

Also if you are white, and look into that, (happen to be unusually), arrogant cop’s eyes, he will assume you’re difficult and worthless trash to be humiliated or worse!

Asher
Asher I do not wish to minimize any of your valid concerns. What I see taking place around the world is not just about racism. Slogans, symbolism, sensation are the mantra of today when folks no longer feel that they have a voice or role to play in the political establishment.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Asher I do not wish to minimize any of your valid concerns. What I see taking place around the world is not just about racism. Slogans, symbolism, sensation are the mantra of today when folks no longer feel that they have a voice or role to play in the political establishment.
You may be right!
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Are we sure that the violent actions from the police are primarily motivated by racism? I mean: racism is certainly a problem, both in the USA and in France, but a year ago we had this in France and the people injured were not immigrants:



Source:
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Jérôme,

I really believe that a lot of police are self selected to the force as a way to achieve fantasy of poet over others. They leverage their authority and whims, if you don’t cower to that guy, he can harm you and his colleagues back up his story. Police know that in many jurisdictions they won’t be prosecuted. You can selectively bully people.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I had a cop bully me and too my heart medicines and other police didn’t stop him! 23 saw yesterday, 3 police in a peaceful demonstration knocked an old man to the ground and he was unconscious. They paused to look at him and saw he was bleeding from an ear and moved on. One Officer spoke into his microphones Theycalk synchronized their lies about the incident but today folk volunteer with cell phone videos gave the evidence to the press.

Being black, means yo have a ten times chance of dying, but being stopped itself is an existential risk that should make us tremble.

Saying it’s only 2% of the cops, but that a lot of bad actors with guns and now militerized with armor and beyond the civilian control because the police “Protecive Leagues” finance election of prosecutors!

I was deprived of my rights and was helpless in the bullies hands. I can away fine, but I felt that I could have been shot or hit at least had i not looked down!


Guns are not designed to kill particular races either!

Jérôme, have you seen any documentation and great writing about the rank of race versus just arrogance and fascistic behavior in causing attacks on civilians?

Guns are not designed to kill particular races either!

Jérôme, have you seen any documentation and great writing about the rank of race versus just arrogance and fascistic behavior in causing attacks on civilians?

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
I am not denying that racism is a problem. I am noting that violence from the police appears to be on the rise, even without racism. That should worry us, maybe.

Violence from the police has always been a risk, because they have the power and the weapons. But the social contract is that the police is at the service of the citizens, not the opposite. Therefore, democracies implement checks and balances so that the police does not abuse their powers. Recent events show these checks and balances failing. Conversely, we may want to ask ourselves if we are still in a democracy.

Now, if we go back about 150 years in time in France, police used machine guns and cannons against the poorer part of the population during riots. Maybe we are slowly heading back to that era, but with less lethal weapons.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I am not denying that racism is a problem. I am noting that violence from the police appears to be on the rise, even without racism. That should worry us, maybe.

Violence from the police has always been a risk, because they have the power and the weapons. But the social contract is that the police is at the service of the citizens, not the opposite. Therefore, democracies implement checks and balances so that the police does not abuse their powers. Recent events show these checks and balances failing. Conversely, we may want to ask ourselves if we are still in a democracy.

Now, if we go back about 150 years in time in France, police used machine guns and cannons against the poorer part of the population during riots. Maybe we are slowly heading back to that era, but with less lethal weapons.


I am highly suspicious that the principal facts are that police are desensitized to humanity!

They don’t even need the added vitriol of “racism” to abuse and murder people who look at them without cowering.

E237C011-E0C0-428C-B420-716166EBFC08.jpeg

One second of eye contact can mean you are thrown to the ground, knocked unconscious and left behind bleeding, as nothing more than sidewalk trash!

They work too much with what they think are the dregs of society with many criminals. They also, by politics, despise folk they think “live off the State” like parasites), so naturally poorer Disadvantaged folk, (ie blacks), are going to be the most disrespected as they they are the most severely economically disadvantaged, (besides Native Americans on reservations)!
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
We agree that there is a problem with the police. I am asking why this problem is not addressed now. It used to be that policemen were respected by the general population and seen as helpful fellows.
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
But we shouldn't be. We are paying their salaries. They are supposed to serve the people, that is us. And not so long ago, it was different.
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
I am not denying that racism is a problem. I am noting that violence from the police appears to be on the rise, even without racism. That should worry us, maybe.

Violence from the police has always been a risk, because they have the power and the weapons. But the social contract is that the police is at the service of the citizens, not the opposite. Therefore, democracies implement checks and balances so that the police does not abuse their powers. Recent events show these checks and balances failing. Conversely, we may want to ask ourselves if we are still in a democracy.

Now, if we go back about 150 years in time in France, police used machine guns and cannons against the poorer part of the population during riots. Maybe we are slowly heading back to that era, but with less lethal weapons.
Research suggests that economic reforms based on neoliberal thought may increase violence and crime.

Research that links neoliberalism, violence, and crime often focuses on structural adjustment programs (SAPs), loans nations receive from international financial institutions like the International Monetary Fund (IMF), that require a set of neoliberal economic reforms the receiving nation must implement that are designed to generate economic growth. These reforms include “currency devaluation, the removal/reduction of the state from the workings of the economy, the elimination of subsidies in an attempt to reduce expenditures, and trade liberalisation” (Riddell 1992). Included in many SAPs are conditions that reduce employment opportunities for the poor and cut government funding for education, health, and welfare programs, which research has demonstrated worsens human rights’ practices (Rodwan and Cingranelli 2006). Examples of this are varied. Adekanye (1995) has shown how SAPs have increased ethnic tensions in several African nations, while Kaiser (1996) links SAPs with religious and racial tensions in Tanzania. Romo (2002) has argued that SAPs have caused economic growth to slow, causing poverty, unemployment, and crime (including homicide) to increase in Kenya, whereas Sanchez (2006) discovered a large increase in the crime rates of Mexico and Costa Rica after structural adjustment. Increases in violence due to SAPs have not only been found in street crimes; governments are also prone to upsurges in violence and criminal activity. Rodwan and Cingranelli (2006) found that the governments of nations that receive SAPs were more likely to engage in torture, political imprisonment, extrajudicial killing, and disappearances. In sum, research suggests that economic reforms based on neoliberal thought may increase violence and crime. We posit that these findings may extend to homicide.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00207659.2018.1560981
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Interesting article, but I am not sure what the consequences are. How do we avoid increase in violence and crime?
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
Interesting article, but I am not sure what the consequences are. How do we avoid increase in violence and crime?
I have mentioned this earlier. Apposing a broken system is not enough. We need a sound coherent economic plan for the 21st Century. Otherwise democracy itself is at risk. Most of whats happening has not so much to do with race but with the policies that have been in place for the last 40 years or so. There is a difference between wealth extraction and wealth creation. This is what happens when governments loose their moral authority and instead rely on coercing people to obey them.

Essentially our monetary system needs an overhaul. I would suggest a good place too start would be having our money backed by an underlying asset that can't be manipulated, electricity or something like that ?

"At the national-level, neoliberal ideas have drastically changed how states operate. By heavily promoting market-based economies that highly value competition and efficiency, neoliberalism has moved countries closer to adopting social Darwinism. Under Thatcher and Reagan, for instance, Peters (2001) argues that neoliberalism directly led to the economic liberalization/rationalization of the state, the restructuring of state sectors, and the dismantling of the welfare state. As a consequence of these changes, the U.S. and the U.K. have seen things like the abolishment of subsidies and tariffs, the corporatization and privatization of state trading departments, a sustained attack on unions, and the individualization of health, welfare, and education."

https://www.sociologylens.net/topics/political-economic-sociology/neoliberalism-consequences/10869
 
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Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Essentially our monetary system needs an overhaul. I would suggest a good place too start would be having our money backed by an underlying asset that can't be manipulated, electricity or something like that ?
Technically, cyber currencies like bitcoin are backed by the value of electricity. It seems that this has caused a lot of problems.
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
Technically, cyber currencies like bitcoin are backed by the value of electricity. It seems that this has caused a lot of problems.
Therefore it is necessary that money (cash and bank money) is managed exclusively by public institutions and consequently that no ownership of money can be established. Naturally the possibility of ownership of credits remains.



d) As an additional measure new real estate laws are essential




http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~roehr... money system must,the inflation rate at zero.
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
That is also an interesting article. If I understood correctly, the author suggests to make it difficult to hoard money by putting a penalty on cash which is not used. There are similar ideas floating in Europe at the moment with the idea to have negative interest rates on cash accounts.

My knowledge of economics is limited, but I understand the proposal to be typical keynesian economics. And, just as is the case with Keynes, I feel that the proposal is an oversimplification. I see several problems with the proposal of "neutral money", the main one being that the theory makes no difference between consumption and investment (except, maybe, for real estate, which the author singles out as a problem).

I'll take myself as an example. I am actually hoarding money (not huge sums), because I am reasonably well paid and there are few things that interest me to buy beside cameras and lenses. And I have enough cameras and lenses, the industry can't bring out revolutionary stuff often enough.
Europe is toying with the idea of negative interest rates on cash accounts. There are already a few banks which make you pay for having money on your account. So this is a problem I thought about: what am I to do if the bank takes interest on the money I hoarded?
I could buy consumer goods, but there is nothing I want or I would not have money left. So I won't do that.
Alternatively, I can invest the money: buy shares, machines to make stuff, or help people who want to start a new business. Investment may be good for the economy in general, but it makes me richer. So it will not solve the problem of social inequalities.

There is an essential difference between consumption and investment: it is not the same to buy honey and to buy bees, for example (I keep a few hives as a hobby). I think this is a fundamental problem with purely monetary approaches: theories which only consider the monetary value of transactions ignore that transactions of the same value can be fundamentally different.
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
That is also an interesting article. If I understood correctly, the author suggests to make it difficult to hoard money by putting a penalty on cash which is not used. There are similar ideas floating in Europe at the moment with the idea to have negative interest rates on cash accounts.

My knowledge of economics is limited, but I understand the proposal to be typical keynesian economics. And, just as is the case with Keynes, I feel that the proposal is an oversimplification. I see several problems with the proposal of "neutral money", the main one being that the theory makes no difference between consumption and investment (except, maybe, for real estate, which the author singles out as a problem).

I'll take myself as an example. I am actually hoarding money (not huge sums), because I am reasonably well paid and there are few things that interest me to buy beside cameras and lenses. And I have enough cameras and lenses, the industry can't bring out revolutionary stuff often enough.
Europe is toying with the idea of negative interest rates on cash accounts. There are already a few banks which make you pay for having money on your account. So this is a problem I thought about: what am I to do if the bank takes interest on the money I hoarded?
I could buy consumer goods, but there is nothing I want or I would not have money left. So I won't do that.
Alternatively, I can invest the money: buy shares, machines to make stuff, or help people who want to start a new business. Investment may be good for the economy in general, but it makes me richer. So it will not solve the problem of social inequalities.

There is an essential difference between consumption and investment: it is not the same to buy honey and to buy bees, for example (I keep a few hives as a hobby). I think this is a fundamental problem with purely monetary approaches: theories which only consider the monetary value of transactions ignore that transactions of the same value can be fundamentally different.
Interest causes a consecutive growth of monetary assets and their concentration in the hands of a few (see section 7). The destabilisation of society caused by these facts have been realized in former centuries. But because interest is necessary to insure traditional money circulation (see section 4.2) and the system would crash without interest (see section 4.4), interest was never abolished. After World War II the negative effects of the interest orientated system could be compensated by a growing economy but the effects get worse as the economy ages (see section 7.7). This is the origin of various social tensions. In the long term there is the danger of an economic, ecological and social crash of society.

The financial cracks will only get bigger. We can not move from a quantitative based economy to a qualitative one under the current structure.
 
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James Lemon

Well-known member
Aren't these the ideas rendered popular by Capital in the Twenty-First Century, by Thomas Piketty?
The link that I provided refers to and article by Dr. Erhard Glötzl an Austrian mathematician, chemist and economist. He worked as chairman of the public utility Linz AG and lector for managerial finance at Danube University Krems and Johannes Kepler University Linz. Pensioned, he now works at the Institute for the Comprehensive Analysis of the Economy, Linz. .
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
I understood so much, but Dr. Erhard Glötzl seems to have the same ideas about interest as Thomas Piketty.
I never read his book. They may describe the same problems but have fundamentally different approaches. On the surface the book appears to look at capitalism through a rear-view mirror and discusses wealth distribution through taxation. On the other hand Dr. Erhard Glötzl discusses the importance of government institutions being in control of money with interest to be kept at zero as the main mechanism and the use of credits. Currently 97% of all money that is put into the system is generated by private banks through debt.

What would it take to force such a change is the real question many others discuss it. It would appear that any change would come about because of necessity and having no other choices.
 
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