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In Perspective, Planet: Loss of Billions of Birds in North America!

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Tragic news!




2106


A Baltimore oriole. Across North America,
bird populations have declined
by nearly 3 billion since 1970.
(Gary Mueller / Macaulay Library
at Cornell Lab of Ornithology)

Tragic!


Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
From LA Times


2107


The data added up to a grim conclusion: Over nearly half a century, bird populations in North America experienced a steep decline. There are 2.9 billion fewer birds today than there were in 1970 — a reduction of 29%.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Thanks Jerome! You have helped bring this to our attention. This the extent of this sad phenomenon was news to me.

How are the bird populations faring in Europe?

Asher
 

Antonio Correia

Well-known member
I remember from my youth, when travelling in the dusk some kilometers the wind shield of the car and all it's front full of small insects which sometime were rather difficult to remove.

Now some 20 years later, travelling in the motor-way for a long time and also at dust, there are hardly insects to remove...

Humans will reach the point of destroying the hole planet. It just needs some time to get there, but we will !

Have you read about the Fukushima heavy water problem ? They want to dump in the Pacific...
The torch relay to light the Olympic flame will begin in Fukushima in March 2020... poor athletes and public in general...
Crazy Russian floating nuclear power station...
Serious problems with nuclear plants in USA, France and other countries which life has ended but must be extended...
The list is endless...
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Dumping lightly contaminated water in the middle of the Pacific is not such a stupid idea. There are such things as natural radioactivity and the Pacific is quite big.

As to bird populations in Europe, they are declining as well and for the same reason.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
The horrible truth is the best way of saving any animals might be an all out nuclear war that removed humans from the equation. At least life would have a fresh start.

In a billion years, the intelligent rats might dominate and gave their own nuclear plants!

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
The horrible truth is the best way of saving any animals might be an all out nuclear war that removed humans from the equation. At least life would have a fresh start.
The planet is not running out of animals, it is running out of animals we like or we find useful. There is no danger that life itself will disappear, just the kind of ecosystem which sustains us.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
If there is a single cataclysmic release of methane from some tectonic event, we could be a lifeless planet. Otherwise, you are correct, life would change and who knows whether there will be another sentient and technological dominant species again!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
It is not possible to say what the bird population was in 1970 so this entire study is flawed. Did anyone count the chickens? Bird populations has been going up and down since a millions years ago. If you look at the charts you can see that in the last cycle (250 thousand years ago) at the lows bird populations was even lower than now. Kind of similar to climate change.
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
It is not possible to say what the bird population was in 1970 so this entire study is flawed. Did anyone count the chickens? Bird populations has been going up and down since a millions years ago. If you look at the charts you can see that in the last cycle (250 thousand years ago) at the lows bird populations was even lower than now. Kind of similar to climate change.
What is the backing for your statement that “we cannot say what the bird population was in 1970”?

[No one is referring to domestic chickens, LOL!]

Asher
 

Andy brown

Well-known member
Good to hear from you professor Lemon.
You didn’t read the article did you.
Of course people counted then as they count now.
It’s only 50 years!
In 1970 I was 8 years old and was often involved in bird counts back then.
I belonged the the Bird Observers Club.
Let me guess, you’re also a climate change denialist and are inclined to say things like “the climate has always changed”... “there’s always been droughts and heat waves”.
Bird populations of threatened species in Australia have reduced by 50% in the last 30 years.
Call me an alarmist. It’s extremely alarming.
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
If there is a single cataclysmic release of methane from some tectonic event, we could be a lifeless planet.
Volcanoes.

This planet has sustained cataclysmic events already and sure, there were mass extinctions, but there is still life on it. Yellowstone is getting hotter, BTW.
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
What is the backing for your statement that “we cannot say what the bird population was in 1970”?

[No one is referring to domestic chickens, LOL!]

Asher
Environment Canada has acknowledged that there are many gaps in monitoring bird populations. A 2012 departmental scientific review found that for 30 percent of all bird species in Canada, monitoring is insufficient to determine whether they are at risk. Incomplete information can affect the Department’s ability to make informed decisions regarding conservation actions for migratory birds and to track results of conservation efforts.

So how many gaps were there in 1970?
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Environment Canada has acknowledged that there are many gaps in monitoring bird populations. A 2012 departmental scientific review found that for 30 percent of all bird species in Canada, monitoring is insufficient to determine whether they are at risk. Incomplete information can affect the Department’s ability to make informed decisions regarding conservation actions for migratory birds and to track results of conservation efforts.

So how many gaps were there in 1970?
Can you provide the reference? That would be helpful.

Still, the consequence of that statement being true, would be that there was indeed sufficient data for informed decisions on the majority of avian species. That goes a long way!

Asher
 

Antonio Correia

Well-known member
Out of topic.
Last month I have been talking to a fisherman about the quantity of fish available in the area.
Not being a young man but rather an experienced fisherman, he reported that the quantity of fish available in about the same areas is less than a ten years ago.
The population of fishermen in Setúbal decreased since a few years and now bigger boats are modern allowing larger and more rentable catches.
The pollution at the sea is also a global concern with gyres in all continents.
Have we entered the Anthropocene ?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Out of topic.
Last month I have been talking to a fisherman about the quantity of fish available in the area.
Not being a young man but rather an experienced fisherman, he reported that the quantity of fish available in about the same areas is less than a ten years ago.
The population of fishermen in Setúbal decreased since a few years and now bigger boats are modern allowing larger and more rentable catches.
The pollution at the sea is also a global concern with gyres in all continents.
Have we entered the Anthropocene ?
Interesting to hear from the fishermen, Antonio. I would believe them!

Yes, we are already carving the landscape with man made stone that will mark our presence and long lived isotopes that will provide a time record for future archaeologists!

Imagine a giant concrete pier with several floors floated across the Pacific Ocean from Fukishima after the Tsunsmi! That kind of artifact will be discovered and thrycwill read it like we study digs in Ancient Greece and Babylon!

Asher
 

Andy brown

Well-known member
I find this quite extraordinary.
A post which draws attention to the incredibly sad demise of the beautiful, the magnificent, the precious birdlife of your nation and someone comes in with
“I don’t trust those numbers! Probably fudged! Flawed! Flawed, I tells ya!”
James, I’m referring to you.
What on Earth is your agenda here?
Please, please, please, give an honest answer.
What is your agenda?
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
James is a critic of global warming as a concern!

He loves the planet but although Canadian, supports Donald Trump!

Think about it. Millions of people believe in so many contradictory things.

James is a really nice fellow. I have met him. However, like Ronald Reagan, he is very different in his political views!

We do need contagonists even if it’s frustrating!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
James is a critic of global warming as a concern!

He loves the planet but although Canadian, supports Donald Trump!

Think about it. Millions of people believe in so many contradictory things.

James is a really nice fellow. I have met him. However, like Ronald Reagan, he is very different in his political views!

We do need contagonists even if it’s frustrating!

Asher
Asher

Thanks for your support! I don't support any political party or any politicians. I think we could do much better without them and government. They are not much more than salesmen to whomever. I believe that non profit organizations and large corporations could run our countries better or something that would eliminate the middleman. I am reasonably sure that the world would get along fine without them.

I am not a radical anarchistic or anything thing like that. Think about Asher it and tell me if there is any value in such a notion? For example The Calgary Airport Authority is a not-for-profit, non-share capital organization, incorporated under the Alberta Regional Airports Authorities Act, and is responsible for the safe, secure and efficient management of the YYC Calgary International Airport (YYC) and Springbank Airport (YBW) under long-term lease from the government of Canada.

Best, regards
James
 
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Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
....... I believe that non profit organizations and large corporations could run our countries better or something that would eliminate the middleman. I am reasonably sure that the world would get along fine without them.

I am not a radical anarchistic anything thing like that. Think about Asher it and tell me if there is any value in such a notion? For example The Calgary Airport Authority is a not-for-profit, non-share capital organization, incorporated under the Alberta Regional Airports Authorities Act, and is responsible for the safe, secure and efficient management of the YYC Calgary International Airport

Sounds great, but here or in Nigeria or Mexico, it would be corrupted as that is the milieu and culture!

Asher
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
James,

I would like you to restart your look into global warming. Besides the cycles of the past, we are in the middle of a massive die off of insects, reptiles and birds.

Please put away your cynical hat for now!

Dismissal is foolish. The species losses are irreplaceable. Also death of other species is widely considered a reflection of damage to the entire planet from human debris!

Asher
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
James,

I would like you to restart your look into global warming. Besides the cycles of the past, we are in the middle of a massive die off of insects, reptiles and birds.

Please put away your cynical hat for now!

Dismissal is foolish. The species losses are irreplaceable. Also death of other species is widely considered a reflection of damage to the entire planet from human debris!

Asher
Pesticides, plastic,fertilizers leaking into water bodies, Fukushima no wonder. I am sure there are a number of reasons .
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
Thanks for your support! I don't support any political party or any politicians. I think we could do much better without them and government. They are not much more than salesmen to whomever. I believe that non profit organizations and large corporations could run our countries better or something that would eliminate the middleman. I am reasonably sure that the world would get along fine without them.

This is not about birds of photography, but...

I certainly agree that it is possible to let a large non-profit organisation run a country. Why? Because a "government" is supposed to be such a large non-profit organisation. And if it is not one, it should be voted out. And if it is not voted out, then you are not living in a democratic country.

And do you know why you are not living in a democratic country? Because you have been convinced that a functioning government is not possible, don't vote and do not support a political party. It is a perfect design to neutralise democracy: convince the electorate not to vote because, in the famous words of Margaret Thatcher, there would be "no alternative" to corrupt politicians, the erosion of the middle and lower classes and raising inequalities... not in your favour.

A democracy has a government elected by all the people and defending the interests of all the people or they are voted out. Admittedly, such countries are rare and have become even rarer in recent times, but one thing stayed true: only the very top is better with less laws and less government. This very top are the people presenting the idea that "all government is bad" and saying your should not vote. They are the ones who gain, not you and me. If you don't vote and defend your rights, you will lose them.
 

James Lemon

Well-known member
This is not about birds of photography, but...

I certainly agree that it is possible to let a large non-profit organisation run a country. Why? Because a "government" is supposed to be such a large non-profit organisation. And if it is not one, it should be voted out. And if it is not voted out, then you are not living in a democratic country.

And do you know why you are not living in a democratic country? Because you have been convinced that a functioning government is not possible, don't vote and do not support a political party. It is a perfect design to neutralise democracy: convince the electorate not to vote because, in the famous words of Margaret Thatcher, there would be "no alternative" to corrupt politicians, the erosion of the middle and lower classes and raising inequalities... not in your favour.

A democracy has a government elected by all the people and defending the interests of all the people or they are voted out. Admittedly, such countries are rare and have become even rarer in recent times, but one thing stayed true: only the very top is better with less laws and less government. This very top are the people presenting the idea that "all government is bad" and saying your should not vote. They are the ones who gain, not you and me. If you don't vote and defend your rights, you will lose them.
"Freedom and democracy are different. In words attributed to Scottish historian Alexander Tytler: 'A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury.' Democracy evolves into kleptocracy. A majority bullying a minority is just as bad as a dictator, communist or otherwise, doing so. Democracy is two coyotes and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch."
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
"Freedom and democracy are different. In words attributed to Scottish historian Alexander Tytler: 'A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury.' Democracy evolves into kleptocracy. A majority bullying a minority is just as bad as a dictator, communist or otherwise, doing so. Democracy is two coyotes and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch."
James,

Yes, that little dish was a flamboyant success! You roasted “Democracy” as a joke in a men’s club!

Having served the caustic humor. Now try to take the opposite tack as you do have the refinement and perception to do exactly that!

Please find the values of democracy that ARE certainly valuable and worth fighting for and tell us about what you gather!

Asher
 

Jerome Marot

Well-known member
"Freedom and democracy are different. In words attributed to Scottish historian Alexander Tytler: 'A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury.' Democracy evolves into kleptocracy. A majority bullying a minority is just as bad as a dictator, communist or otherwise, doing so. Democracy is two coyotes and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch."
Obvioulsy, if you don't want democracy, my arguments are moot. Let me ask a single question: are you a billionaire? You have better be one.
 

Andy brown

Well-known member
Oooh! James, trying to sound intelligent and failing miserably.
Feel free to answer my direct questions you gutless pr1ck.
 
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