Lunch

[Tom dinning]

These are two of my Sicilian friends discussing 'family matters'.


_DSC0720 by tom.dinning, on Flickr

 

[Robert Watcher]

Other than a little selective dodging (to bring out the faces) and burning - - - this is a very appealing shot. Composition is lovely. In the past I have used hotel lobbies for a similar look, and they always turn out looking great.

 

[Robert Watcher]

"Just because I like playing with images" (hope you don't mind)

This is dodging and burning I would normally do. On the other hand I don't necessarily think that it is better than your shot above - - - and there are some elements of your straight out of camera image that appeal to me because it is more of a dramatic snapshot look and because elements are lost in shadow. Although I do find that the bright objects like the statue in behind, the strip of wall and even the tree detail in the window - are where my eye is drawn. Anway this is just a different way of looking at your shot. Nothing has been added or taken away - just the selective dodging and burning of different areas - - - some details brought out and some hidden.

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[Maggie Terlecki]

Although Robert's version let's us see more into the shadows, I prefer the original as it feels more mysterious and the deep shadows and the bright light coming through the windows creates this contrast gives me a feeling of edginess just makes me more curious as what they are discussing. The bright statue behind to me, gives this image depth showing the space as being quite large and not an intimate little corner and pulls my eye back into the photo.

 

[Asher Kelman]

Tom,

I am not usually allowed in to such posh clubs except when some "hoy poloy" charity event and a printed invitation gets me past the huffy fellows with embroider uniforms. In addition, I have neither time no money for them!

"Just because I like playing with images" (hope you don't mind)

This is dodging and burning I would normally do. On the other hand I don't necessarily think that it is better than your shot above - - - and there are some elements of your straight out of camera image that appeal to me because it is more of a dramatic snapshot look and because elements are lost in shadow. Although I do find that the bright objects like the statue in behind, the strip of wall and even the tree detail in the window - are where my eye is drawn. Anway this is just a different way of looking at your shot. Nothing has been added or taken away - just the selective dodging and burning of different areas - - - some details brought out and some hidden.

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Robert,

I like your edits as they put attention on the two men. I do think that the adjustment to the face of fellow on the right could be pulled back, as it is too bright for the rest of the lighting at the mood of the picture. Shutting out the exterior is especially effective in this "old boys" club scene.

Asher

 

[Robert Watcher]

I do think that the adjustment to the face of fellow on the right could be pulled back, as it is too bright for the rest of the lighting at the mood of the picture.

I agree. I didn't spend endless time trying to make it perfectand anything I did was working within the limitations of a low resolution image - manipulating details that aren't there to start with. I literally spent no more than 2 or 3 minutes with some adjustment layers. It was done just to give an idea as to how effective dodging and burning can be with such an image. Tastes on where and what to effect with adjustments, vary with personal taste of course.

 

[Asher Kelman]

I agree. I didn't spend endless time trying to make it perfectand anything I did was working within the limitations of a low resolution image - manipulating details that aren't there to start with. I literally spent no more than 2 or 3 minutes with some adjustment layers. It was done just to give an idea as to how effective dodging and burning can be with such an image. Tastes on where and what to effect with adjustments, vary with personal taste of course.

Bob,

Your quick retouches are proof of value of shadow highlight work with the dodge burn tools. Not used enough by us. Big thing is to keep changing the diameter of the brush and to keep it soft-edged. To do this, as well as you've done requires some empathy and understanding of the quiet, select, restricted and well behaved atmosphere. You've kept that!

An excellent job, lickety split!

Asher

 

[Robert Watcher]

Thank you Asher. I am one of those old timers who processed 100% of my own work in my wet darkroom - mostly color, but also some black and white (I was a late adopter of black and white). From just about the time I started getting more serious in my commerical work, every print was aligned and cropped on the easle to be compositionally, geometrically and aesthetically pleasing to my eye. Then print after print was produced one at a time using various homemade dodging and buring tools in constant motion both horizontally and vertically - - - until I acheived a print that looked like I wanted. That was an integral part of the joy of photography for me.

My view has always been - and is also supported by other mentors of mine - - - that a successful image relies as much on how it is processed as how it is taken. I now use that methodology in my digital processing and printing - of which I still maintain 100% control of. Of course the image has to be there at capture, but skilled processing (traditional or digital) moves it to the next level or at least can refine it.

I doubt whether most newer photographers have developed those skill sets today - if they even know about them. It is much easier to apply preset actions - which I do and love too - - - - but the ability to finesse an image through imaginative cropping, dodging and burning, is something that is a valuable ability to learn.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Prefer your original Tom. You have a gift for composition which I do believe requires any OTT post processing enhancement. The original is perfect for showing all the, numerous, elements that make up this whole. Forcing the eye straight to the men is to miss all the other aspects that this image, decievingly simple, has to offer. Added to that your processing shows the light, the soft window light of the room, it tells of a mood which adding contrast just ruins IMO.

 

[Tom dinning]

Prefer your original Tom. You have a gift for composition which I do believe requires any OTT post processing enhancement. The original is perfect for showing all the, numerous, elements that make up this whole. Forcing the eye straight to the men is to miss all the other aspects that this image, decievingly simple, has to offer. Added to that your processing shows the light, the soft window light of the room, it tells of a mood which adding contrast just ruins IMO.

Thanks Ben. Ypu are on the money with my own thoughts on the shot. This is as straight out of the camera as I would do. The lighting was as good as it gets. I saw the statue 'listening' to the conversation and moved to include it. Having one face side lit and the other backlit emphasises the dominance of one character over another. The warm tones with the leather and the brightness of the window with enough detail still to see some greenery develops the atmosphere.
This all happened in passing and in an instant.
It would be nice if all my shots where like this. I'd be a happy man. Hang on. I am a happy man.
It must be for some other reason.

 

[Don Ferguson Jr.]

Another vote for the original. Well done and captivating.
Don

 

[Asher Kelman]

These are two of my Sicilian friends discussing 'family matters'.

_DSC0720 by tom.dinning, on Flickr​

Tom,

I never felt that this picture "needs" any altering at all, just appreciating what changes might mean if made as Robert suggested in his edits. I like the original even more now that I realize that the statue is listening. I've always felt those fellows are conspiring to raise taxes, divert resources, choose who'll be the next mayor or some other "old boys club" trick. Someone should be listening so we can better compete.

Still, I do adore the atmosphere and the leather. I'm sure the walls have great photographs and prints and the food and wines are excellent! This exclusivity is clearly experienced in your picture.

As to the window light, once the white sculpture is valued then the window works best as bright as it is and so the picture remains balanced. Notice that when Robert edited the picture, he had to darken both if he touched just one of them.

BTW, how on earth did you get past the doorman, concierge, butlers and pages?

Asher