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Marketing Ideas

Jerome Love

New member
Truth and I've started to pull away from being lenient on pricing. What about getting my foot in the door for weddings? I know the environment ( I've assisted many times) and I know how to make the shots? How do I market myself appropiately.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Truth and I've started to pull away from being lenient on pricing. What about getting my foot in the door for weddings? I know the environment ( I've assisted many times) and I know how to make the shots? How do I market myself appropiately.

You have to have something unique, something that no one else has.

Not necessarily, Alain!

It is sufficient in a market like wedding photography to assist a pro. Eventually there will be a job he/she cannot take. So if you have established a good relationship, you might be offered the job. So you must be ready.

In addition, network. Hear about an engagement or planned wedding, give your card.

You need a portfolio of your own work and a website. As Alain would say, you need a description of yourself, an artist's statement, so to speak that says "who you are". Then people think they know you and might trust you.

Everything you do must be professional from your website and stationary to attitude, manners and way you deal with clients, especially punctuality and keeping promises.

After just a few jobs, you will get referrals by word of mouth. When you have managed your first 4 weddings on your name, (with an assistant I hope and duplicate everything) and pictures were delviered as promised, I'd start advertising and meeting wedding planners, church and synagogues so that you might get on their lists of possible photographers.

Don't advertize until you are sure you can take care of any eventuality and things are perfect. Getting a bunch of weddings that don't turn out well would be an efficient way of killing your market in you area.

Selling fine art is rather different. Alain, by example has customers all over and if they don't like the print he can correct that! You can't do that with the couple's first kiss!

Asher
 

Alain Briot

pro member
Asher,

That's all true but when you look at the top wedding photographers they each have something unique.

And no, I don't correct my prints. People who don't like them can return them if they want using my 100%, 1 year money back warranty.
 

Jerome Love

New member
Thanks so much for breaking that down Asher. That's really what I needed. I also appreciate your input of bring something unique to the table Alan. This thread has really helped me alot.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Asher,

That's all true but when you look at the top wedding photographers they each have something unique.

Hi Alain,

His job is to start by being competant and reliable and then find styles he admires and gradualy find the skill, insight and wisdom to develop his own with which he can distinguish himself. Unlike fine art that you are producing, being "Good enough" can earn him a good living. For you, the many extra steps to becoming an artist with a unique voice and vision and following is a long way off. He needs, above all competance, reliablility and a good reputation which is not really hard for a dedicated photographer to achieve in most large American cities, for example.

Being an artist with a unique vision and following requires, in my opinion, much more than hard work, competence and dedication!


And no, I don't correct my prints. People who don't like them can return them if they want using my 100%, 1 year money back warranty.

My English meaning was, I thought straightforward! If people do not like the print for any reason you exchange it! I never meant to imply you "corrected it" if you did, I'd be aghast unless it was some curling of the paper or such that you wanted to swop out, for example!


Asher
 
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Matt Suess

pro member
Truth and I've started to pull away from being lenient on pricing. What about getting my foot in the door for weddings? I know the environment ( I've assisted many times) and I know how to make the shots? How do I market myself appropiately.

Jerome,

Asher made some great points that I would like to expand upon. Photographing weddings is something I used to do throughout my photography career and what follows is what helped me.

Networking is huge for the wedding photographer, especially when starting up. Try joining a local Chamber of Commerce. You may also look into a networking group - one that comes to mind is BNI - Business Networking International. Get to know wedding photographers in your area and establish good business relations with them. If they have a client request for a date they are already booked, they may send that client on to you. Meet with people from the places that hold weddings - many keep a list of photographers that they recommend. For many brides, their first stop in the planning is the wedding venue.

There are many online wedding resources for the bride. Research them. Many sites allow you to add your business to them for free, and others charge for the service. Costs are less than magazine advertising and I feel are more worthwhile especially when starting out.

And nothing beats word of mouth referrals. Do a great job for a bride and groom, and they will tell everyone who it was that made their day special.
 

Marc Hankins

New member
Brief interjection here -

I just want to say this is a brilliant thread. I'm literally in the middle of planning how to market myself in my area so every scrap of information and opinion here is being absorbed into my train of thought.

I do just want to reinforce what has already been said here a lot. Pricing is very important in how you market yourself, every single business article I've read and studied has always screamed "DON'T DO STUFF FOR FREE!" and undercutting is an equally bad thing to do, especially by large amounts of money.

My business will be brand new when I manage to get everything up and running, but I have the confidence to not do anything for free that isn't a personal job I'm doing for my own entertainment, and even then I try to make something from it.

One thing i noticed from working in retail, is how pricing systems can work. I used to sell cameras, and a good example of whats going on here is that there was a new camera. It was possibly worth about £150, however it was temporarily priced at £300. It didn't even look that special, but the customers saw the price and assumed something had to be REALLY good about it, admittedly these weren't the savviest of customers. Several of these were purchased practically on the price alone! No complaints at all.

What do we learn? Some customers will purchase something with a price expectation in mind, because they think that the higher the price, the better the quality. This story can be applied here, if you DO price too cheaply people might ignore you on the basis that they'll assume you're not good enough, clearly thats not the case, so don't cheap yourself out. Just be confident.

You wouldn't expect a big company to give you a product they sell for free, nor would they shy away from making a profit, so why the hell should any of us? I think having a capitalist view on business / the world would help any new starters. Look for any opportunity to make money!

One last point, and one which i think is VERY important. I want to repeat what was mentioned earlier by Asher Kelman.

Don't advertize until you are sure you can take care of any eventuality and things are perfect.


Please do argue with me if you think anything I've said here is wrong!
 

Alain Briot

pro member
Yes, price defines everything. The perceived value of your product, as you explain, as well as the respect you get from customers, the number of complaints, and of course your lifestyle as a whole. Pricing is one of the most important aspects of marketing.
 

David Sommars

New member
In my small experience, The people giving out freebies are usually not versed in that industry, so they are trying to get expirience that way. There is always a constant wave of people who are doing some work for free, or on the cheap.

As their gear gets better and they get more experience, they realize they cannot survive or progress this way. They will weed themselves out I believe,

also everyone needs to start somewhere, everyone who shoots weddings did a friend or families wedding for cheap or free somewhere along the line. So when you hear stories about this, you have to think to yourself, if this is a beginner, then its not even close to apples and apples.

The first 2 weddings I shot were friends and family, I did them cheap and in exchange for memory cards, I learned a LOT and also they were in no position to pay anyone anyways. These weddings were in cheap hotel lobbies and dry old parks at 12 noon. These weddings are just fodder for expiramenting and learning. No beginner photographer is going to land a destinations wedding for 300 -500$ it just doesnt happen, nothing to worry about there,

With pro -sports shooting the official guys with a copyright to control (security) take care of beginners, if you have the clearence to shoot your in good hands, if not your not making any money anyways.

with horsey stuff, and little league stuff and dirt track racing, all un-sanctioned stuff, its prob a lot more tricky. People dont know who to buy from, they just can see the results and prob your equipment, I would dress professional, have examples of your best work and be courteous, this should set you apart from the amateur easily.

So, in actuality not everything a beginner gives away robs anyone of anything.
In some cases it can even help. it will vary per industry and location, but for example the beginner giving away weddings for cheap is 85% most likely shooting stuff either noone else wants, and thats because the B&G cant afford more then 300$

Instead of complain about this we should be improving our work and making sure we are getting noticed by the right people and stop worrying about the slush market.

Educating the general public about quality photography is more noble a concern I think.


Just thoughts, didnt mean to go on a rant... lol
 

Alain Briot

pro member
David,

I think that's an accurate analysis. People who give their work away for free devalue it. Therefore why should their competition be worried that the freebie givers are going to take away their business? They just made it clear their work isn't worth money and that they don't expect people to pay for it . . .

The other question is how do you go from giving your work away to charging for it? That's an obstacle that many never get over.
 

Charles Lupica

New member
I have just read this whole thread from start to finish and I find it remarkably like the debate between microstock and stock photography. What is the value of an image? What is a good business strategy? And what works for one person may not work for the industry as a whole.

I don't know for sure but I'll bet that giving away images seldom leads to selling a lot more. As has been noted, people and companies that can get "aceptable" images for free or cheaply are not going to come back to you later and offer the going rate. And it's easy to use the excuse that they don't have the money and wouldn't have bought images anyway. We've all been there.

As a matter of fact, I'm there right now. I was out shooting some images for stock and possibly fine-art. One of my current lines of thought is to photograph small, independent stores and their owners. This type of shop has mostly disappeared in the US. Even in the 60's when I was growing up there weren't many left. So I was out photographing and went into a little shop that sells vinegar, oil, falvored liquers, and whisky by the once (100 ml really). I was shooting away and the shop owner ask waht I was doing so I explained. I went on shooting and a little while later she came back and said I couldn't shot ANY pictures unless I was willing to give her pictures for her website. I explained that I am a professional and that she was asking me to give my product away. She made a counter claim that the store layout and display was here work and I couldn't photogrph it without giving her recompense.

People are always looking for a way to get something for nothing. So now I have to give her the photos on the off chance I can sell one as stock or enter it into my "fine-art" collection. I accepted, but with the clause that they could be used for not other purpose; website only, low-res with my web address on the image. But I'm still not sure that this is a good thing. Taking a few pictures shouldn't cause me this much stress. If I wanted stress, I'd photograph weddings :)
 

Tim Armes

New member
I've read and studied has always screamed "DON'T DO STUFF FOR FREE!"

I agree, but there is a valid twist on this.

I've just finished a shoot for what could potentially be a very important client. I knew that I was capable of doing the job, but I didn't have a appropriate portfolio that could show this to the client. Looking to the future I knew that if I could get the job I would be able to add the images to my portfolio as well as being able to list a prestigeous name on my list of clientel.

I therefore offered, well in advance of the event, to take on the work on a "Pay if you're pleased" basis.

I've now finished the shoot and I've put the images on my site for the client to view. I also sent a couple high definition shots so that they can judge the quality. If they're happy then I'll send them the CD of images and the bill + rights usage agreement. If they're not then I don't get anything (but they don't either) but I'll have effectively done a day's work for free.

Given that they normally use some extremely talented photographers I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this technique has given my a foot in the door.

Tim
 
I therefore offered, well in advance of the event, to take on the work on a "Pay if you're pleased" basis.

Many years ago a cook had the idea to start a restaurant where there are no prices.

He was an excellent and very creative cook and he was convinced this concept will work.

So he opened his establishment and started to cook for his life, created the most stunning and delicious dishes he could come up with.

Yeah, some people payed him even more what he would have expected and praised his courage and his art. Some people payed him decently, but what he had to learn is that there is a problem.

Once the word spread about his place, the place was booked out very quick and you had to reserve a table. But it was crowded with people who thought it would be great fun to dine the finest food and then discuss the dinner with the chef, complain about lack of quality and pay him 1 dollar only and leave.

Needless to say, the restaurant did not surrvive and closed the doors.
 

Tim Armes

New member
Many years ago a cook had the idea to start a restaurant where there are no prices.

Hi Georg,

The analogy doesn't work because I didn't say that I asked them to pay however much they thought my work was worth. I set my fee in advance, as usual.

However, if they don't accept the images then they won't receive them and I won't send a bill.

Tim
 

Jerome Love

New member
Blogging- The blogosphere has especially erupted lately because of all the political buzz, why not get your name out there? Even if it is off-topic, people who are interested in politics still get photos made!
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
Organizing oneself to be a Pro-Photographer: Goal, timetable, business plan!

Blogging- The blogosphere has especially erupted lately because of all the political buzz, why not get your name out there? Even if it is off-topic, people who are interested in politics still get photos made!
Hi Jerome,

What one needs is to decide on your financial goal, your mental and physical resources and what you can do to achieve your goal by a target date.

You have already decided on your occupation, but will it be full time? Do you have a studio and your own gear for lighting etc? I'd write out a business plan and if you do, perhaps you could hire someone like Kathy Rappaport to go over it. If you did that, I'd look at it too. Yes, local networking is important: stakeholders in weddings, (caterers, chapels, church, synagogue, temple etc, florists and furniture rentals, wedding gown stores, Tux rental stores, Chamber of Commerce etc. Get assistant jobs for several pros. build a portfolio. As you are doing, update your website. You're here and on the right track!

Blogging off topic? Not likely to have payoff beyond some glee in perplexing the folk!

Asher :)
 

Kathy Rappaport

pro member
Blogging and My Space and Twitter and ....

Actually, Asher, the Social Networking sites are great places to get your name out there. They increase traffic. People searching through the social networks often will search for photographers where they can see their work. I've started posting images to Facebook to create some buzz there. I set up a blog - some photographers have even done away with traditional websites for blogs only. Not only is the world changing but so it the www.

But, yes, you are right you can't do anything without some planning. It doesn't just happen unless you make it happen. And you need a business and marketing plan to follow to get there.
 

Asher Kelman

OPF Owner/Editor-in-Chief
I agree, but there is a valid twist on this.

I've just finished a shoot for what could potentially be a very important client. I knew that I was capable of doing the job, but I didn't have a appropriate portfolio that could show this to the client. Looking to the future I knew that if I could get the job I would be able to add the images to my portfolio as well as being able to list a prestigeous name on my list of clientel.

I therefore offered, well in advance of the event, to take on the work on a "Pay if you're pleased" basis.

I've now finished the shoot and I've put the images on my site for the client to view. I also sent a couple high definition shots so that they can judge the quality. If they're happy then I'll send them the CD of images and the bill + rights usage agreement. If they're not then I don't get anything (but they don't either) but I'll have effectively done a day's work for free.

Given that they normally use some extremely talented photographers I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this technique has given my a foot in the door.
Tim,

How's this worked! I'd be very interested in how you'd present this option today with more protection for your work, perhaps.

Asher :)
 

Jerome Love

New member
Hi Jerome,

What one needs is to decide on your financial goal, your mental and physical resources and what you can do to achieve your goal by a target date.

You have already decided on your occupation, but will it be full time? Do you have a studio and your own gear for lighting etc? I'd write out a business plan and if you do, perhaps you could hire someone like Kathy Rappaport to go over it. If you did that, I'd look at it too. Yes, local networking is important: stakeholders in weddings, (caterers, chapels, church, synagogue, temple etc, florists and furniture rentals, wedding gown stores, Tux rental stores, Chamber of Commerce etc. Get assistant jobs for several pros. build a portfolio. As you are doing, update your website. You're here and on the right track!

Blogging off topic? Not likely to have payoff beyond some glee in perplexing the folk!

Asher :)


Asher,

I appreciate the guidance. I do intend to do this full time, but I do have a fall back with the marketing degree which in today's world is almost recession proof(high-end mortuaries?haha). I'm taking a Portraiture and Wedding Photography course here at the community college which has been very helpful in improving my current skills and exposing me to much of the unknown business side. I'm fortunate that one of my classmates(she's actually the mother of a girl I've known for years) specializes in business development and is going to help me build a focused business strategy and develop it into a plan. I appreciate the warm [re]welcome and generous guidance. I'm glad I'm here.

To the topic,

I agree with Kathy here. The WWW is changing, as with the world. There are so many elements to that but you will notice that social networking is a huge market that photographer's have yet to fully tap into. How many aspiring myspace, facebook, twitter insert passion here are outthere? Of that many, how many know YOU can provide photographs to cover, promote them?If that's not your market, you'll find many businesses as well on social networks.

Referring to a portfolio and Tim. I currently use my iPod touch as a on-the-go portfolio. If someone asks to see my work, I can hand it to them and allow them to interact with it! They are a few ways this can go, what do you think?
 

Matt Suess

pro member
I currently use my iPod touch as a on-the-go portfolio. If someone asks to see my work, I can hand it to them and allow them to interact with it! They are a few ways this can go, what do you think?

That is an excellent tool to use. I have been using my iPhone at art festivals to allow those in my booth to view photos I don't have with me. I show them my website on it at the festival as well, and have sent emails to them direct from the show on pieces they were considering. I also have a TV interview I recently did stored on the iPhone to show interested collectors.

Matt Suess
 

Tim Armes

New member
Tim,

How's this worked! I'd be very interested in how you'd present this option today with more protection for your work, perhaps.

Asher :)

Hi,

Well, the client liked the images and they did pay me. They then invited me back a month or two later to take more photos, so in this instance the risk paid off.

Regards,

Tim
 
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